Can Josh and the 3pt shot be a good thing?

[TheTrueSiete]

I guess it could. Using the same logic it could be a good thing if Smith shot underhanded from half court.

Really, because how many times have we seen that happen? I'm guessing quite a few less times than we've seen Smoove drain a tre...

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[thecampster]

It amazes me that you can't see the big issue. For every 3 that Smith takes there will be several times when he is standing behind the line and doesn't get the ball or gets it and doesn't take a 3. When he is standing behind the line:

-the defense doesn't have to guard him, letting them focus on other guys.

-he isn't getting offensive rebounds, part of the reason why he averages only 7.3 rebounds per game.

-he isn't moving without the ball to get easy looks inside. Childress used to excel at this.

-when he does get the ball he is farther from the basket, making it tougher to drive.

Do you really think that Smith attempts a 3 every time he sets foot behind the line?

There is nothing good that comes from Smith standing behind the line. When he is standing behind the line he is doing exactly what the other team wants.

This thread is a freaking greek tragedy.

a basketball court has basically 5 offensive players. 2 post, 2 wing and 1 point. The posts spend most of their time on either side of the basket. The point starts top of the key. The wings hang out at the 3 point line 90% of the time. However, many sets are run out of this basic configuration.

Hawks starting five

Horford

Smith

Williams

JJ

Bibby

Question 1: Should Horford /Smith / Williams always be within 10 feet of the basket in each offensive set?

If you answer yes, then we no longer get to run a pick and roll. EVER! You can not run a slash pick and roll with the middle clogged as it offers natural help.

Question 2: Should Joe Johnson never post up?

If you answer yes, then we never get to take advantage of mismatches against smaller SG (see Ben Gordon).

Question 3: Is Marvin Williams a full time 3 that should be the player always on the wing?

If you answer yes, then Marvin should never be posting up any of the Small Forwards he faces that are typically 6'8" or shorter.

Question 4: Should we never, ever allow a player on this team to run an iso play?

If you answered no, then you must then understand that you typically clear the post in ISO leaving only one player in the post. Who do you want, Josh, Marvin or Horford? The other 2 will be pushed to the wing.

Question 5: Should we not run any motion?

If you answered no, then you probably also understand that in any motion offense, everyone but typically the center rotates out to the wing at some point.

Think about this. You are speaking in absolutes. As if we run down court and run the same motion 2 set each possession. All of these things happen as a part of our normal (all though sometimes pathetic) offensive sets. It is not Josh being a selfish all about me player. He's at the 3 point line as a part of the normal offense in most situations. If this was not the case then none of the situations mentioned above are going on and we'd have bigger problems.

One last thought. Probably the best post up, pick and roll big man any of us has seen play is Karl Malone. For his career, Malone shot 85 or 310 from the 3 point line for 27.4%. Sound familiar? However, it was a non issue. Consider the 3 point shot from a power forward like the waste pitch in baseball. You are just giving the batter something to think about. Every once in a while he goes fishing and you get a strike out. But that isn't it's purpose. It's just the pitcher throwing something out there. This Josh Smith 1.3 shots a game is the same thing. They go in occasionally. not enough to shoot 6 a game but they do go in and when they do it's gravy but it makes the defense question it every once in a while. But it's a waste pitch. You throw one up and see what they do and then go back to your normal pitching rotation. Meanwhile they think about it.

[exodus]

Really, because how many times have we seen that happen? I'm guessing quite a few less times than we've seen Smoove drain a tre...

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Using your logic it doesn't matter. After all he could make them occassionally, therefore it could be a good thing.

If Smith was shooting 20% from 3 it could still be a good thing occassionally if he took 3s.

If Smith was shooting 15% from 3 it could still be a good thing for him to take 3s.

If Smith was shooting 10% from 3 it could still be a good thing for him to take 3s.

[hawkman]

Using your logic it doesn't matter. After all he could make them occassionally, therefore it could be a good thing.

If Smith was shooting 20% from 3 it could still be a good thing occassionally if he took 3s.

If Smith was shooting 15% from 3 it could still be a good thing for him to take 3s.

If Smith was shooting 10% from 3 it could still be a good thing for him to take 3s.

Now you're just being difficult for the sake of being difficult. :thumbsdownsmileyanim:

[TheTrueSiete]

Using your logic it doesn't matter. After all he could make them occassionally, therefore it could be a good thing.

If Smith was shooting 20% from 3 it could still be a good thing occassionally if he took 3s.

If Smith was shooting 15% from 3 it could still be a good thing for him to take 3s.

If Smith was shooting 10% from 3 it could still be a good thing for him to take 3s.

Well, also included in my logic is that Smoove's career 3pt percentage is somewhere in the 20s, but this year it is over 30 percent... I know of a few superstars that shoot in the 30s (Kobe)... So, yes I do realize that Smoove and the 3pt shot could be a good thing as long as the chance of him making them is continuing to increase... It's not tough to admit when you're wrong Ex... Man up... :snowballfight:

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[JackB1]

It amazes me that you can't see the big issue. For every 3 that Smith takes there will be several times when he is standing behind the line and doesn't get the ball or gets it and doesn't take a 3. When he is standing behind the line:

-the defense doesn't have to guard him, letting them focus on other guys.

-he isn't getting offensive rebounds, part of the reason why he averages only 7.3 rebounds per game.

-he isn't moving without the ball to get easy looks inside. Childress used to excel at this.

-when he does get the ball he is farther from the basket, making it tougher to drive.

Do you really think that Smith attempts a 3 every time he sets foot behind the line?

There is nothing good that comes from Smith standing behind the line. When he is standing behind the line he is doing exactly what the other team wants.

Finally, someone looking at the BIG PICTURE!

Just because Smith shoots only (3) 3pters a game isn't the only point. The fact is he is hanging around the 3 pt. line TOO MUCH and that isn't where he can help this team the most. Josh HAS YET to understand the best way to use his skill set and that I blame on his lack of brain power + lack of coaching. If anyone ever needed to play college ball, it was Smoove. He should try and hire Billy Donovan as a private coach during the offseason.

Zaza is only 1 year older than Smoove, but he realizes how to best utilize his limited skill set to maximise his usefulness to the team. Smoove doesn't seem like he will ever get there.

[exodus]

Well, also included in my logic is that Smoove's career 3pt percentage is somewhere in the 20s, but this year it is over 30 percent... I know of a few superstars that shoot in the 30s (Kobe)... So, yes I do realize that Smoove and the 3pt shot could be a good thing as long as the chance of him making them is continuing to increase... It's not tough to admit when you're wrong Ex... Man up... :snowballfight:

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Please show me the post where you said anything about it being a good thing if Smith's percentage increases. What you said is that it could be a good thing because some of them go in.

FYI Smith shot 30.9% from 3 in his second season on more attempts.

[TheTrueSiete]

Please show me the post where you said anything about it being a good thing if Smith's percentage increases. What you said is that it could be a good thing because some of them go in.

FYI Smith shot 30.9% from 3 in his second season on more attempts.

Show me where I needed to say that... Isn't that needless to say? Come on Ex, quit trying so hard... Repeat after me... It's ok to broaden one's game in order to add another dimension to the team's gameplan... Say it again... What a riot you are...

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[TheTrueSiete]

Well, also included in my logic is that Smoove's career 3pt percentage is somewhere in the 20s, but this year it is over 30 percent... I know of a few superstars that shoot in the 30s (Kobe)... So, yes I do realize that Smoove and the 3pt shot could be a good thing as long as the chance of him making them is continuing to increase... It's not tough to admit when you're wrong Ex... Man up...

7 :thumbsupsmileyanim:

[hawkman]

Well, also included in my logic is that Smoove's career 3pt percentage is somewhere in the 20s, but this year it is over 30 percent... I know of a few superstars that shoot in the 30s (Kobe)... So, yes I do realize that Smoove and the 3pt shot could be a good thing as long as the chance of him making them is continuing to increase... It's not tough to admit when you're wrong Ex... Man up...

7 :thumbsupsmileyanim:

That ain't happening any time soon. I've been here long enough to know that nobody around here EVER admits when they are wrong.

[exodus]

Well, also included in my logic is that Smoove's career 3pt percentage is somewhere in the 20s, but this year it is over 30 percent...

That isn't what you originally said. I am not a mind reader. Sure it would be great if Smith would improve every year but that isn't what is happening. Smith is shooting 3s worse this year than he did in his second season.

I know of a few superstars that shoot in the 30s (Kobe)...

Kobe is a shooting guard who has the ball in his hands all the time and takes a lot of shots. A lot of his shots will be contested, desperation shots at the end of the clock. He is a career 34% shooter and is shooting 35% this year without getting left wide open every time like Smith.

Show me some power forwards who take as many 3s as Smith and shoot them worse.

[DrReality]

This thread has promise . . . . . of going nowhere.

[TheTrueSiete]

That isn't what you originally said. I am not a mind reader. Sure it would be great if Smith would improve every year but that isn't what is happening. Smith is shooting 3s worse this year than he did in his second season.

Kobe is a shooting guard who has the ball in his hands all the time and takes a lot of shots. A lot of his shots will be contested, desperation shots at the end of the clock. He is a career 34% shooter and is shooting 35% this year without getting left wide open every time like Smith.

Show me some power forwards who take as many 3s as Smith and shoot them worse.

He's shooting them better this year than last so it is what's happening... And I guess every post on here needs to be made with all your specifications met? Hilarious... :write a letter:

Are you sure about the use of "every time"... I'm just trying to act as conceited as you do on here... Can you prove that every 3 Smoove takes is wide open? If so, do so!

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[TheTrueSiete]

This thread has promise . . . . . of going nowhere.

I agree... Some people never learn...

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[exodus]

He's shooting them better this year than last so it is what's happening... And I guess every post on here needs to be made with all your specifications met? Hilarious... :write a letter:

I can just as easily say he is shooting worse than his second season so he isn't getting better.

Besides Smith getting better was never said or even implied in your original responses.

Except for the occassional 3 points, right?

That was good for the Spurs right? So to answer the topic question, yes Smoove and the 3 pt shot "could" be a good thing right?

Duncan hit a fluke 3 which was a good thing for the Spurs. You used Duncan's fluke shot as trying to prove it could be a good thing if Smith shot 3s.

Only when your flawed logic was exposed did you mention Smith improving and it isn't hard to improve from 25%.

Are you sure about the use of "every time"... I'm just trying to act as conceited as you do on here... Can you prove that every 3 Smoove takes is wide open? If so, do so!

I watch the games. When Smith is behind the line you might be able to find a defender within 10 feet of him if you're lucky.

I am still waiting for the list of power forwards who shoot as many 3s as smith and shoot them worse.

Edited April 10, 2009 by exodus

[TheTrueSiete]

I can just as easily say he is shooting worse than his second season so he isn't getting better.

Besides Smith getting better was never said or even implied in your original responses.

Duncan hit a fluke 3 which was a good thing for the Spurs. So if Smith hit a fluke shot it would be a good thing for the Hawks.

Only when your flawed logic was exposed did you mention Smith improving and it isn't hard to improve from 25%.

I watch the games. When Smith is behind the line you might be able to find a defender within 10 feet of him if you're lucky.

I am still waiting for the list of power forwards who shoot as many 3s as smith and shoot them worse.

I believe the use of "fluke" when mentioning Tim Duncan's three is warranted being that he doesn't shoot them basically ever... But being that Smoove is a 30 percent 3 point shooter, he shouldn't fall into that category...

So since you watch the games, you know it all? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Comical.... But you said he was wide open "every time"... Now you're backpedaling... You might want to say what you mean the first time, because, to quote you, "I'm not a mind reader"...

Still waiting huh... Hold your breath...

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Edited April 10, 2009 by TheTrueSiete

[exodus]

I believe the use of "fluke" when mentioning Tim Duncan's three is warranted being that he doesn't shoot them basically ever... But being that Smoove is a 30 percent 3 point shooter, he shouldn't fall into that category...

You do realize that you were the one who used Duncan's shot as a reason why it could be a good thing for Smith to shoot 3s, right?

So since you watch the games, you know it all? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Comical.... But you said he was wide open "every time"... Now you're backpedaling...

Not at all. I can't even remember the last time there was a defender anywhere near him when Smith was spotting up behind the line.

Please do tell what you think the defense is doing when Smith is behind the line.

Still waiting huh... Hold your breath...

I'll make it even easier for you. Find just one.

[TheTrueSiete]

"I can just as easily say he is shooting worse than his second season so he isn't getting better."

Exodus

So, if I shot a 72 every week for a year in golf, and then came out the next couple of years and shot a 79, and then came out and shot a 73 the following year, I couldn't say I got better even though I shot "better" than the previous year? You call my logic flawed? Again, Ex you are a riot... :thumbsupsmileyanim:

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[TheTrueSiete]

You do realize that you were the one who used Duncan's shot as a reason why it could be a good thing for Smith to shoot 3s, right?

Not at all. I can't even remember the last time there was a defender anywhere near him when Smith was spotting up behind the line.

Please do tell what you think the defense is doing when Smith is behind the line.

I'll make it even easier for you. Find just one.

What do I think the defense is doing when Smith is behind the line... I don't have to think... I KNOW that the defense has WATCHED over 30 percent of them go in... That was easy... Keep holding you breath...

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[exodus]

"I can just as easily say he is shooting worse than his second season so he isn't getting better."

Exodus

So, if I shot a 72 every week for a year in golf, and then came out the next couple of years and shot a 79, and then came out and shot a 73 the following year, I couldn't say I got better even though I shot "better" than the previous year? You call my logic flawed? Again, Ex you are a riot... :thumbsupsmileyanim:

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You must not play golf to use an analogy that bad. Wow

In order to say you are getting steadily better there has to be a pattern in place and there definitely isn't with Smith. Up until March 1 Smith was shooting 24% from 3. That doesn't look like improvement to me. His recent hot streak looks like a fluke more than anything.

When you suck so bad that you shoot 25% it is hard not to improve, just like it is hard not to improve from 13 wins.