Can Josh and the 3pt shot be a good thing?

[exodus]

Amare has taken 73 3pointers in his career. He is a 19% shooter from the arc. He took 31 last year. Boozer is 1 of 9 from 3 in his career for 11%. Brand is 2 for 13 in his career for 15.4%. Sub 20% and all 3 are listed as F/C on Yahoo (meaning between Forward and Center). Reminding you Smith is listed as F (meaning between Small Forward and Forward). If you won't let other compare non-exact players, you can't do the same.

LOL @ using a yahoo listing. We watch Smith and know where he plays. He listed other guys who are 3s. Please show me the guys he listed who start at the 4.

Brand, Boozer and Amare are all far better jump shooters than Smith. amare's EFG on jumpers is 44.5%.

http://www.82games.com/0809/08PHO15.HTM

Smith's is 34.3%

http://www.82games.com/0809/08ATL10.HTM

Sorry bro but you don't sound like much of a JSMith fan to me here. 7.3 rebounds is good for 31st in the NBA among players with 60 games or more.

It is lame for a pf.

This is just an exaggeration and in some ways totally untrue. The first thing you need to admit here is that these sets are by design and not primarily Josh's doing but a product of Woody's ISO sets and having too many interchangable pieces

i don't see Horford spotting up behind the line. i didn't see marvin spotting up behind the line last year. They play in the same offense.

Easy question! His defender is the guy that's got JJ bottled up because he held the ball too long in ISO and wasn't looking to give it up when he drew the double.

Smith's man will always double because he knows Smith isn't a threat from 3. When Smith is behind the line the defense only has to guard 4 guys.

You qualified it as back to your original post of having to be a power forward and having to shoot more and worse.

How can i qualify it by saying what i originally said? That doesn't even make sense.

The only change i made was asking for one instead of more than one.

Gerald Wallace is listed by yahoo as 'F' just like Smith meaning he's played both positions this year just like Smith. But saying they have to be a PF like you claim Smith solely is cheapens your argument.

You do realize that a small forward spends more time on the perimeter than a power forward, right? hence the "small" and "power" designations. Are you saying there is no difference between the position Duncan plays and the position Lebron and Melo play?

Diaw started 55 games at the 4 for the Cats. I remember all too well him schooling Smith. May started 12 games and i doubt it was at the 3.

[dalamchops]

Smoove scored 30 and we won o.O

[thecampster]

LOL @ using a yahoo listing. We watch Smith and know where he plays. He listed other guys who are 3s. Please show me the guys he listed who start at the 4.

Brand, Boozer and Amare are all far better jump shooters than Smith. amare's EFG on jumpers is 44.5%.

http://www.82games.com/0809/08PHO15.HTM

Smith's is 34.3%

http://www.82games.com/0809/08ATL10.HTM

It is lame for a pf.

i don't see Horford spotting up behind the line. i didn't see marvin spotting up behind the line last year. They play in the same offense.

Smith's man will always double because he knows Smith isn't a threat from 3. When Smith is behind the line the defense only has to guard 4 guys.

How can i qualify it by saying what i originally said? That doesn't even make sense.

The only change i made was asking for one instead of more than one.

You do realize that a small forward spends more time on the perimeter than a power forward, right? hence the "small" and "power" designations. Are you saying there is no difference between the position Duncan plays and the position Lebron and Melo play?

Diaw started 55 games at the 4 for the Cats. I remember all too well him schooling Smith. May started 12 games and i doubt it was at the 3.

So anyway Exodus, I know your logic seems to be making perfect sense to you here. I get that. I even understand what you are saying. I just realize you take everything I'm saying and are ignoring it as it doesn't fit your argument. Take a step back and look at the bevy of stats and evidence I've laid out and just think about it again. You can't really be serious when say he is a 5 feet from the basket player only. I just can't see you saying that.

[exodus]

So anyway Exodus, I know your logic seems to be making perfect sense to you here. I get that. I even understand what you are saying. I just realize you take everything I'm saying and are ignoring it as it doesn't fit your argument. Take a step back and look at the bevy of stats and evidence I've laid out and just think about it again. You can't really be serious when say he is a 5 feet from the basket player only. I just can't see you saying that.

From 5-15 feet he shoots 31.8%.

From 15 feet to the 3 pt line he shoots 35.6%.

From the 3 pt line he shoots 29.4%.

Among power forwards who have played at least 500 minutes this year all of these guys have a higher rebounding rate than Smith:

Kevin Love, MIN

2 Antonio McDyess, DET

3 Carlos Boozer, UTH

4 Troy Murphy, IND

5 Reggie Evans, PHI

6 David Lee, NYK

7 Chris Andersen, DEN

8 Shelden Williams, MIN

9 Paul Millsap, UTH

10 Chuck Hayes, HOU

11 Leon Powe, BOS

12 Luis Scola, HOU

13 Kevin Garnett, BOS

14 Elton Brand, PHI

15 Zach Randolph, LAC

16 Ben Wallace, CLE

17 James Singleton, DAL

18 Lamar Odom, LAL

19 Nick Collison, OKC

20 Jason Thompson, SAC

21 Amir Johnson, DET

22 Louis Amundson, PHO

23 Renaldo Balkman, DEN

24 Chris Bosh, TOR

25 Chris Wilcox, NYK

26 Charlie Villanueva, MIL

27 Pau Gasol, LAL

28 Udonis Haslem, MIA

29 Darrell Arthur, MEM

30 Shawn Marion, TOR

31 Josh Powell, LAL

32 Ryan Anderson, NJN

33 Brian Skinner, LAC

34 Marreese Speights, PHI

35 J.J. Hickson, CLE

36 Rasheed Wallace, DET

37 Antawn Jamison, WAS

38 Joe Smith, CLE

39 Jason Maxiell, DET

40 Carl Landry, HOU

41 Yi Jianlian, NJN

42 Sean Marks, NOR

43 Brandon Bass, DAL

44 Tyrus Thomas, CHI

45 David West, NOR

46 Andray Blatche, WAS

47 Amare Stoudemire, PHO

48 Mikki Moore, BOS

49 Michael Beasley, MIA

50 Dirk Nowitzki, DAL

51 LaMarcus Aldridge, POR

52 Solomon Jones, ATL

53 Hakim Warrick, MEM

54 Dominic McGuire, WAS

The numbers don't lie.

[mrhonline]

Smith is 82nd in defensive rebounding % and 80th in offensive rebounding % among players who have played at least 1000 minutes this season. That's terrible for a PF.

I give exodus credit here (mostly for agreeing with me) that Smith's rebounding is a HUGE problem. I believe it to be his biggest weakness with free throw shooting now second. The perimeter shooting hurts at times, but not as much as the previous two problems.

[AtLaS]

Smith's rebounding IMO varies because we are always switching screens and he is often caught on the perimeter guarding players. Seriously just watch it, he will very often get switched off his man and the shot goes up and he's guarding a player on the perimeter. This is why Marvin will often have big rebounding games as well.

He definitely needs to improve either way, but this has a lot to do with it.

[BusBoyIsBack]

His rebounding is also skewed because he's going for the blocked shots which takes away chances for rebounding but a contested shot may help us out defensively.

Josh Smith should not take that many 3s. Guys like Brand, Amare, etc don't take that many and those guys are even better shooters from the field than Smoove.

Smoove belongs around the basket. If he's around the perimeter it should be to drive to the lane where he can get up high where pretty much no one can jump with him.

[exodus]

His rebounding is also skewed because he's going for the blocked shots which takes away chances for rebounding but a contested shot may help us out defensively.

Howard leads the league in blocks and rebounds so i am not seeing the connection. Anderson and Camby are 2 and 3 in blocks and both are strong rebounders.

Smith's blocks are way down this year so i can't see using that as an excuse for his rebounding.

Smith's rebounding IMO varies because we are always switching screens and he is often caught on the perimeter guarding players.

Horford plays in the same defense and gets matched up with guards on switches a lot yet he averages 2 more defensive rebounds per game than Smith. Smith just doesn't box out. There have been countless times that i see him just reach for the ball instead of boxing his man out and wind up losing the rebound.

Smith and Horford both need to hit the offensive glass more. Horford did a better job of that last year.

[thecampster]

From 5-15 feet he shoots 31.8%.

From 15 feet to the 3 pt line he shoots 35.6%.

From the 3 pt line he shoots 29.4%.

Among power forwards who have played at least 500 minutes this year all of these guys have a higher rebounding rate than Smith:

Kevin Love, MIN

2 Antonio McDyess, DET

3 Carlos Boozer, UTH

4 Troy Murphy, IND

5 Reggie Evans, PHI

6 David Lee, NYK

7 Chris Andersen, DEN

8 Shelden Williams, MIN

9 Paul Millsap, UTH

10 Chuck Hayes, HOU

11 Leon Powe, BOS

12 Luis Scola, HOU

13 Kevin Garnett, BOS

14 Elton Brand, PHI

15 Zach Randolph, LAC

16 Ben Wallace, CLE

17 James Singleton, DAL

18 Lamar Odom, LAL

19 Nick Collison, OKC

20 Jason Thompson, SAC

21 Amir Johnson, DET

22 Louis Amundson, PHO

23 Renaldo Balkman, DEN

24 Chris Bosh, TOR

25 Chris Wilcox, NYK

26 Charlie Villanueva, MIL

27 Pau Gasol, LAL

28 Udonis Haslem, MIA

29 Darrell Arthur, MEM

30 Shawn Marion, TOR

31 Josh Powell, LAL

32 Ryan Anderson, NJN

33 Brian Skinner, LAC

34 Marreese Speights, PHI

35 J.J. Hickson, CLE

36 Rasheed Wallace, DET

37 Antawn Jamison, WAS

38 Joe Smith, CLE

39 Jason Maxiell, DET

40 Carl Landry, HOU

41 Yi Jianlian, NJN

42 Sean Marks, NOR

43 Brandon Bass, DAL

44 Tyrus Thomas, CHI

45 David West, NOR

46 Andray Blatche, WAS

47 Amare Stoudemire, PHO

48 Mikki Moore, BOS

49 Michael Beasley, MIA

50 Dirk Nowitzki, DAL

51 LaMarcus Aldridge, POR

52 Solomon Jones, ATL

53 Hakim Warrick, MEM

54 Dominic McGuire, WAS

The numbers don't lie.

Your numbers do lie. You are using rebounds per minute. Most subs numbers get skewed. LOL Solomon Jones???

[exodus]

Your numbers do lie. You are using rebounds per minute. Most subs numbers get skewed. LOL Solomon Jones???

Sorry but it is impossible to get rebounds when you are on the bench. Just because Smith plays a lot of minutes doesn't make him a good rebounder.

Leon Powe gets 4.8 rebounds in 17.4 minutes.

Smith gets 7.3 in 35.8 minutes.

Who is the better rebounder?

[mrhonline]

Your numbers do lie. You are using rebounds per minute. Most subs numbers get skewed. LOL Solomon Jones???

Actually, they don't. Per minute stats are much more reliable over the course of a season than most people give them credit for.

[AtLaS]

Horford plays in the same defense and gets matched up with guards on switches a lot yet he averages 2 more defensive rebounds per game than Smith. Smith just doesn't box out. There have been countless times that i see him just reach for the ball instead of boxing his man out and wind up losing the rebound.

Smith definitely has a lot of work to do on his rebounding but he gets caught on the perimeter much more often than Horford does. I remember one game we were playing zone and Woodson had Smith playing at the top of the key, he had no chance to rebound from there.

[Atlantaholic]

If they go in, i have no problem, obviously.... To me if you can shoot 35% plus you should be taking threes when you are open, it is part of the game, and the more players on your team that can shoot them well, the more dangerous a team you become... Having said that, I think it is a pipe dream that Smoove will ever shoot 35% from three point line. The dude can't even nail free throws.

[Atlantaholic]

Your numbers do lie. You are using rebounds per minute. Most subs numbers get skewed. LOL Solomon Jones???

They are only really skewed for players that hardly ever play. (single digit minutes ala mario west) otherwise it is a pretty clear indicator of how someone is rebounding while in the game.

[MaceCase]

Having said that, I think it is a pipe dream that Smoove will ever shoot 35% from three point line. The dude can't even nail free throws.

Not to pick a fight for my first post on this forum but I can think of two players off my head, Baron Davis and Bruce Bowen, who shoot well from three but are poor from the stripe so I'm not sure about that correlation. I personally believe Josh needs and can develop a consistant jumper because due to his lack of size and height at the 4 his survival as an effective threat in the nba is in serious doubt. This is a guy who has shot in the 70s on Fts before and on or slightly below the 30s from 3. With a little confidence and practice over the offseason I strongly feel he will be clicking from range

[Atlantaholic]

Not to pick a fight for my first post on this forum but I can think of two players off my head, Baron Davis and Bruce Bowen, who shoot well from three but are poor from the stripe so I'm not sure about that correlation. I personally believe Josh needs and can develop a consistant jumper because due to his lack of size and height at the 4 his survival as an effective threat in the nba is in serious doubt. This is a guy who has shot in the 70s on Fts before and on or slightly below the 30s from 3. With a little confidence and practice over the offseason I strongly feel he will be clicking from range

Well Baron Davis is one of the worst shooters in the NBA... from anywhere on the court. Bruce Bowen is a rare player, the dude can't hit a shot from anywhere on the court except the wing.

I don't really want our PF to fashion his game after either of those guys.

[exodus]

Not to pick a fight for my first post on this forum but I can think of two players off my head, Baron Davis and Bruce Bowen, who shoot well from three but are poor from the stripe so I'm not sure about that correlation.

There are exceptions to every rule. Bowen is the only guy in the NBA i know who shoots well from 3 and poorly from the line so that shows you just how highly correlated those two things are.

If Smith can't hit a 15 jumper i don't see how he can become a legit 3 pt shooter. I think it is far more important for him to work on 10-15 footers because from 15 he is only 1 dribble away from the basket.