Marvin has done nothing to earn 8 Million per.

[Buzzard]

Funny how, becauseI can back up what I say?

Interesting.

Has Marvin been invited by any team to visit?

Is there any interest?

Did you forget that the mayor gave Smoove the key to the city?

I think you were shut down twice there buzzard!!

OMG you got me Diesel. It must have been the part where Smith said he had not received a offer lmao...his camp went searching Diesel as they should...they put it in the press trying to get some leverage and all it got them was a offer from Memphis and what he was originaly offered by Sund....

Anyway what was this thread about? Oh yes, is Marvin worth 8 mill a year lmao again!

[gsuteke]

So you believe that a team with Money doesn't offer Marvin a contract because they know that they can't get him? Dude... LOOK A FREAKIN ROUND. We have the worst ownership situation in basketball. We have 7 owners who are arguing. We have three different groups. We have 2 groups who are in a lawsuit that has been going on for 3 years now. We have not reached out for a good FA since Joe Johnson. Our life blood is hoping that we can resign our talent and maybe get a trade. Other teams have to know that if they sign one of our RFAs to a contract there's at least a 50-50 shot that they will get them. I think Sund made his necessary moves with our UFA. Namely because they play at positions we can't afford to lose. C and PG. However, we'll see how the Marvin negotiations go. The thing is the prudent thing to do is to wait out a deal and if none comes, offer the 1 year QO.

Marvin isn't getting an offer because any team that actually has cap room (and there are very few) aren't looking to spend any money.

This is the is the driving force behind actually offering Marvin a deal right now as opposed to simply letting him play out his QO. Any good business person knows you plan for the future. You may not think much of our ownership, however I assure you they didn't position themselves in life to the point of owning an NBA franchise by being complete fools. Sure in any business there is a risk involved, and these people are businessmen first and foremost. You make Marvin an offer now while there is little to no competition to sign him. Next year there will be far more teams with cap flexibility than there are this year.

If the Hawks were to let Marvin play out his QO and he made the same progression next season as he's done over the past few years the Hawks would't be in danger of losing him. However, he'd wind up costing them 50 million or more over 5 years as opposed to the 40 the Hawks could quite possibly sign him for this offseason.

Far more teams will have the money to spend next offseason. Some of them will need to save face after losing out on Bosh, Lebron, and Joe Johnson.

Signing Marvin right now wouldn't be managing your business out of fear, it would be making a sound fiscal decision.

[Diesel]

Since you are so fond of 82games lately I implore you to go check out Ray Allen's shooting stats from the past two seasons. Pay close attention to the percentage of one of the best shooters in the leagues shots that were assisted. Now go ahead and call him a bum for needing to have the ball given to him to succeed and say he's not aggressive. This is the problem when arguing with people who clearly don't know the game of basketball. Maybe it's because you've been poisoned watching Woody ball for the past 5 years but there is a reason why the national media calls our offense a streetball offense because in the real world you love refering to playing one on one is not basketball.

Ray Allen is a jumpshooter.

Still. He only required assists for 69% of his shots. This is at age 33 and shooting a career average of 40% from three and 41% last season..

Marvin shoots 35.5% last season (I don't think Ray Ray has ever had a season that low from three). And Marvin is assisted in 70% % of his shots.

Let's see

Ray on the three point line. 41% from 3.

Marvin on the three point line. 35% from 3.

Why do these two guys require the same amount of assists?

Maybe because Ray is 33 years old and he's a set shooter now. That's usually what happens to old sharpshooting SGs.

What's 23 year old Marvin's excuse??

[Diesel]

Marvin isn't getting an offer because any team that actually has cap room (and there are very few) aren't looking to spend any money.

This is the is the driving force behind actually offering Marvin a deal right now as opposed to simply letting him play out his QO. Any good business person knows you plan for the future. You may not think much of our ownership, however I assure you they didn't position themselves in life to the point of owning an NBA franchise by being complete fools. Sure in any business there is a risk involved, and these people are businessmen first and foremost. You make Marvin an offer now while there is little to no competition to sign him. Next year there will be far more teams with cap flexibility than there are this year.

If the Hawks were to let Marvin play out his QO and he made the same progression next season as he's done over the past few years the Hawks would't be in danger of losing him. However, he'd wind up costing them 50 million or more over 5 years as opposed to the 40 the Hawks could quite possibly sign him for this offseason.

Far more teams will have the money to spend next offseason. Some of them will need to save face after losing out on Bosh, Lebron, and Joe Johnson.

Signing Marvin right now wouldn't be managing your business out of fear, it would be making a sound fiscal decision.

So you're saying that Portland who has a gang of money and a need at Sf would be making a bad fiscal decision by going after Marvin?

How about Memphis? Who could use an athletic PF?

[Buzzard]

Ray Allen is a jumpshooter.

Still. He only required assists for 69% of his shots. This is at age 33 and shooting a career average of 40% from three and 41% last season..

Marvin shoots 35.5% last season (I don't think Ray Ray has ever had a season that low from three). And Marvin is assisted in 70% % of his shots.

Let's see

Ray on the three point line. 41% from 3.

Marvin on the three point line. 35% from 3.

Why do these two guys require the same amount of assists?

Maybe because Ray is 33 years old and he's a set shooter now. That's usually what happens to old sharpshooting SGs.

What's 23 year old Marvin's excuse??

There is no "excuse"; they are both jump shooters. You are just arguing "for" the point that it is easy to get an assist off Marvin...pass him the ball and he shoots it.

[Diesel]

OMG you got me Diesel. It must have been the part where Smith said he had not received a offer lmao...his camp went searching Diesel as they should...they put it in the press trying to get some leverage and all it got them was a offer from Memphis and what he was originaly offered by Sund....

Anyway what was this thread about? Oh yes, is Marvin worth 8 mill a year lmao again!

That's funny? I'm still waiting to hear about one team even inviting Marvin to the city? You know Marvin can drive to Charlotte or Washington from Chapel Hill. Why haven't they called? Portland might not want to pay for Marvin's air fare so maybe he can take a trip home and dive over?

[gsuteke]

BTW this thread is no longer about whether Marvin is worth 8 million a season. Anyone without an agenda knows that has been answered. This thread has become about whether certain members of HS want him signed to a long term deal.

[Buzzard]

So you're saying that Portland who has a gang of money and a need at Sf would be making a bad fiscal decision by going after Marvin?

How about Memphis? Who could use an athletic PF?

Portland is a concern but I think they are looking at Odom 1st. Then again maybe they don't want either and are willing to wait till the big off season next year. Marvin does not fit at PF and you know it. Not a big SF market out there; which is good for us but bad for Odom and Marvin....

Edited July 17, 2009 by Buzzard

[gsuteke]

So you're saying that Portland who has a gang of money and a need at Sf would be making a bad fiscal decision by going after Marvin?

How about Memphis? Who could use an athletic PF?

Memphis isn't spending any money. You are attempting to create a false scenario to give your argument credence as opposed to arguing the merits of my post.

Portland would be doing Sund a favor by negotiating Marvin's next contract.

[Buzzard]

BTW this thread is no longer about whether Marvin is worth 8 million a season. Anyone without an agenda knows that has been answered. This thread has become about whether certain members of HS want him signed to a long term deal.

That and trying to devalue one of your own...borderline insanity by my standards but very "normal" for others. At the least it is entertaining while I get ready to go out to eat :)

[Buzzard]

That's funny? I'm still waiting to hear about one team even inviting Marvin to the city? You know Marvin can drive to Charlotte or Washington from Chapel Hill. Why haven't they called? Portland might not want to pay for Marvin's air fare so maybe he can take a trip home and dive over?

Anyway what was this thread about? Oh yes, is Marvin worth 8 mill a year lmao again!

[exodus]

Smith didn't get an offer, but there was interest. All of Hawksquawk was afraid that Philly would frontload a contract for Smoove. Sund was afraid also (which is why he didn't move Sooner on Chillz). BTW, Chillz said that he brought Sund SNT deals. However, with Marvin. NO offer, NO interest.

You clown yourself in your own posts and don't even realize it.

Sund didn't advertise any SNT offers with Childress. It was Childress who mentioned them. Just because Sund hasn't mentioned any possible SNT offers

with Marvin doesn't mean they aren't there. That is just you making an assumption and pretending it is a fact.

[exodus]

Wow. Now Marvin's nonaggressiveness is everybody else's fault?

Look. Marvin gets most of his points on assists. He's probably the highest on the team for that stat and maybe one of the highest in the league.

57% of Marvin's inside baskets are assisted. 60% of Smiths inside baskets are assisted.

It should be understood that Marvin's trips to the ft line aren't coming on assists. They are coming on drives to the basket.

[Admin]

If you think a player is valuable... Offer the contract. So what if the Hawks match? I mean, is there rumblings of any interest at all? What did Portland really lose? Their team is a D@mned good the way that it is. Getting a Milsap would be icing on the cake. What did Portland lose by Utah matching? It was just a case of the rich trying to get richer. They didn;t get richer, but they didn't lose money either.

Well there is the risk of losing another player that could help your team while you're waiting 7 days to find out whether the other team will match. The truth is that the majority of RFA's in this day and age don't get offers until the UFA's are gone.

[Plainview1981]

Marvin averaged above his season average against some of the best teams in the league:

Boston 15ppg

Cleveland 14.7ppg

Denver 21.5

Pho 16.5

Before being injured Marvin averaged just over 15 ppg in Febuary and March. Smith averaged under his season average for those two mar,onths at 12.3 ppg in Febuary and 15.5 in March. Here is Smoove's ppg against the same four teams.

Boston 16.3

Cleveland 9.7

Denver 10.0

Pho 21.5

The point here is not to say one is more valuable than the other. The point is to show that they are both valuable. And though neither is playing at a all-star level, both are deifinetely playing at NBA starting levels. We needed both players to win last season and we need both this season as well.

This team is not going to contend for a title with the way it currently is. The team can't get help upfront now because so much money is done tied up. I don't recall anybody saying Josh Smith is all that. He had a poor season. Even the fans boo him more than they cheer him now it seems to me. There are reasons to trade him. Marvin averaged slightly above his season average against a couple of teams. That's nice, but.... They had a higher winning percentage when he was out. Maybe it's all Marvin's fault and maybe it's not... But I don't think Marvin and Josh are a great combo at all.

The Hawks were 6-7 without Josh Smith this year. The team was 13-6 without Marvin.

Here are the wins without Josh Smith:

Oak City

Chicago (Mediocre before they got Brad and John)

Washington

Charlotte

Bucks

Washington

That's the teams they beat without Josh.

Here are the teams the Hawks beat without Marvin:

Houston

Toronto

Chicago

Hornets

Utah

Indiana

Portland

Kings

Dallas

Minnesota

Lakers

Toronto

Bucks

6 teams above .500 there. The best team the Hawks beat without Josh was Chicago pre Brad Miller and John Salmons. I'm sure Ex will reply back saying some of those teams were beat up. Hello! Everybody the Hawks beat without Josh flat out sucked. Period. If I'm not mistaken, both Portland and Utah were playing well when the Hawks beat them. Can't remember for sure though.

Edited July 18, 2009 by Hotlanta1981

[Diesel]

You clown yourself in your own posts and don't even realize it.

Sund didn't advertise any SNT offers with Childress. It was Childress who mentioned them. Just because Sund hasn't mentioned any possible SNT offers

with Marvin doesn't mean they aren't there. That is just you making an assumption and pretending it is a fact.

Can you read???

I clearly said "CHILLZ SAID"....

RIF.

[Diesel]

57% of Marvin's inside baskets are assisted. 60% of Smiths inside baskets are assisted.

It should be understood that Marvin's trips to the ft line aren't coming on assists. They are coming on drives to the basket.

57%??? Way to make up the numbers there.

Unfortunately, you're having reading problems again. Those are MARVIN'S INSIDE Scores... not his total scores. His total scores are about 70% assisted.

Or maybe you'd like to forget that 66% of his offense (Jumpshots) was 77% assisted.

Edited July 18, 2009 by Diesel

[Plainview1981]

Well, I've shown my evidence. No need to further sit here and get in circles. Folks can believe what they want.

[Diesel]

Well there is the risk of losing another player that could help your team while you're waiting 7 days to find out whether the other team will match. The truth is that the majority of RFA's in this day and age don't get offers until the UFA's are gone.

What's funny though is that last year both of our RFAs were being invited to other cities and "drawing interest" from other before the cap was even set. Hell, Smoove met the mayor of Philly!!!

Would you say that if you're a good RFA, teams will take an interest in you?

Even this year... Didn't Chillz (an RFA) visit Milwaukee?

Didn't both Milsap and Gortat get offers?

Haven't Big Baby already visited New Orleans and Denver ?

What about Marvin??

Nothing!

[Diesel]

Anyway what was this thread about? Oh yes, is Marvin worth 8 mill a year lmao again!

I don't know Buzzard, maybe you're slow on the uptake. Maybe you can't follow the ebbs and flow of the conversation. The thing is that one tactic that many GMs use to try to determine the value of a player is to let the market decide. Well, the problem is that it seems like Nobody in the market cares that Marvin is a FA. IF we were trying to determine if Marvin was worth 8 Million, it would be easy if a team would come up and offer him 8 million. Last reported, we didn't even want to offer Marvin 8 million per. Our deal was 5 years 37.5 Million. I hope that Sund makes Marvin go out and find 8 million per. Because I know and many of you know that with no teams showing any interest in Marvin, that Marvin would be hard pressed to find that. But for you Marvin Loyalist, that wouldn't prove that he's not worth 8 million either.

[So let's see how many ways we have proved that Marvin is not worth 8 Million:

1. effect on the team.

Marvin went out and we didn't not lose a step as a team. Losing Marvin made no difference to our team.

2. Pure Statistics.

According to the statistics, Marvin goes out and we get better defensively while not losing ground offensively.

3. 5 man units.

Each 5 man unit where Marvin is replaced by Flip at the 2 and Joe at the 3 is statistically better.

4. Comparison with other Sfs on his level.

There are no other Sfs that are 4th -5th option on their team, no allstar material, not mvp material that makes 8 million dollars or more. If so, they also carry a label (OVERPAID).

5. Interest from other teams during FAcy.

Marvin's agent has been the least busy agent in the world. While Milsap and Gortat are RFA that have received offers.. and while Chillz was invited to Milwaukee and Big Baby to N.O. Marvin's jet is in the hanger. Waiting for an 8 million dollar fillup.

6. Injury history.

Marvin's not fully recovered yet. He's looking like Speedy part 2.

I don't think I or hots is for just cutting Marvin altogether. If a trade can be made and we get a needed player... Fine. But even without a trade, a 1 year QO at 7.3 is the next step. Give Marvin one more chance to prove that he's worthy of 8 million per. or allow us to trade him for value. But for us to sign him for 8 million per... is ridiculous.

Edited July 18, 2009 by Diesel