Flipper?

[benhillboy]

I respect Zaza. Indifferent towards Marvin. Don't claim to know about Teague. Not a Crawford fan. I think Bibby is slightly more harm on "D" than help on "O." Josh is a bonehead, Al is below his curve, and Joe is a creampuff. Mo and Rio fit into their role.

What's going on with the glue to this squad? I'm sure Sund has the same opinion as I do: Flip knows his game and plays it better and more consistently than anyone else here. Why is his contract situation the last to be handled?

[TheTruth]

I respect Zaza. Indifferent towards Marvin. Don't claim to know about Teague. Not a Crawford fan. I think Bibby is slightly more harm on "D" than help on "O." Josh is a bonehead, Al is below his curve, and Joe is a creampuff. Mo and Rio fit into their role.

What's going on with the glue to this squad? I'm sure Sund has the same opinion as I do: Flip knows his game and plays it better and more consistently than anyone else here. Why is his contract situation the last to be handled?

Dude isn't coming back so there isn't anything to resolve. As much as most of us like him, we have Crawford now--who is a more expensive upgrade over Flip. We need at least one more big man before we get another guard...

[xhawk]

Dude isn't coming back so there isn't anything to resolve. As much as most of us like him, we have Crawford now--who is a more expensive upgrade over Flip. We need at least one more big man before we get another guard...

Its not likely, but if he can't find a multi year deal, then he could be back for he minimum (it's always good be a deep team).

[capstone21]

I respect Zaza. Indifferent towards Marvin. Don't claim to know about Teague. Not a Crawford fan. I think Bibby is slightly more harm on "D" than help on "O." Josh is a bonehead, Al is below his curve, and Joe is a creampuff. Mo and Rio fit into their role.

What's going on with the glue to this squad? I'm sure Sund has the same opinion as I do: Flip knows his game and plays it better and more consistently than anyone else here. Why is his contract situation the last to be handled?

Flip was a sparkplug off the bench but he was not the glue that held this team together.

There is no minutes for Flip anymore...he played a good role for us last year but it has been replaced by a better player this year with Crawford.

[benhillboy]

Flip was a sparkplug off the bench but he was not the glue that held this team together.

There is no minutes for Flip anymore...he played a good role for us last year but it has been replaced by a better player this year with Crawford.

Crawford better than Flip? Eeeeh. I respectfully, but intensely disagree. When Crawford helps a team to the playoffs and plays well in a SINGLE playoff game, we can argue. When action has to be forced in the dribble-drive game and at the iron, there will be no one to do it. Those lackadasical points that the Hawks go through in the second quarter, down 4 or 5, are going to swell to 8 or 9 instead of a tie at the half and Stan Verret asking Flip how did he do it. His hanging jumper is twice as good as Joe's contested fade-away or some of the possession-wasting crap that we'll see from Crawford (unless Woody employs an ofensive set coordinator, and we all know he probably won't), and his tendency to draw contact and/ or finish in the paint is unrivaled by either also. Sure, Flip has a tendency to fire haphazardly, and early in the clock, but has the presence of mind to feel the pulse of the game and grind to offset his mistakes, while our other SG's compound mental mistakes. We've all seen Joe drift away from the action if he turns the ball over (unforced) the next play after a pitiful attempt at the basket. We need Flip.

Edited August 8, 2009 by benhillboy

[joeschmoe]

I think we should re-sign Flip too. Just because he and Crawford can both score does not make them the same player. Flip could still have a role on the team, granted in fewer minutes. It seems like we could get him cheap, and it would be a mistake not to.

[capstone21]

Crawford better than Flip? Eeeeh. I respectfully, but intensely disagree. When Crawford helps a team to the playoffs and plays well in a SINGLE playoff game, we can argue. When action has to be forced in the dribble-drive game and at the iron, there will be no one to do it. Those lackadasical points that the Hawks go through in the second quarter, down 4 or 5, are going to swell to 8 or 9 instead of a tie at the half and Stan Verret asking Flip how did he do it. His hanging jumper is twice as good as Joe's contested fade-away or some of the possession-wasting crap that we'll see from Crawford (unless Woody employs an ofensive set coordinator, and we all know he probably won't), and his tendency to draw contact and/ or finish in the paint is unrivaled by either also. Sure, Flip has a tendency to fire haphazardly, and early in the clock, but has the presence of mind to feel the pulse of the game and grind to offset his mistakes, while our other SG's compound mental mistakes. We've all seen Joe drift away from the action if he turns the ball over (unforced) the next play after a pitiful attempt at the basket. We need Flip.

There is just no PT for him. There is also no money since we need a backup big man or two in the worse way. Flip did a great job for us and I am sure he will do a great job for whatever team he signs with (probably Philly).

[mrhonline]

If Flip is re-signed, then there will be ZERO minutes for Teague.

[benhillboy]

If Flip is re-signed, then there will be ZERO minutes for Teague.

True. But I'd much rather give minutes, and money to a very able 20-point scorer who has great familiarity with the league and playoff experience over a rookie whose true position isn't even solidified, aside from the fact that Woody and Bibby aren't exactly the type to harbor maximum growth and potential of a young small guard. I know you can't have 4 scoring guards on a team, though. I would like to know where this big-man savior is coming from, sooner than later, although getting one during the season is a possibility, and hopefully not a reaction to losing and being outclassed in both paints. I guess I'll never come to grips with swapping Flip for Crawford, as you all will get tired of me numerous times this season when Craw goes through prolonged, awful stretches that frankly, Flip never had last year aside from a rough shooting patch for about a week in December(?) Flip, as far as I saw it, was the difference between being closer to 50 wins as opposed to 40, homecourt as opposed to traveling. Hopefully, I'm wrong. If not, when Spring rolls around, you all know where you heard it first. Check the game logs. Flip contributes to winning wherever he goes. Wish I could say the same for 'Maal.

Edited August 8, 2009 by benhillboy

[DrReality]

Yet another topic that has been addressed ad nauseum.

[Dsinner]

Yet another topic that has been addressed ad nauseum.

Yeah, I thought it was already agreed that Flip's BEST year (last year) wasn't even as good as Crawford's average? This is correct, correct? So, I really don't see the argument in who's actually better.

[benhillboy]

Yeah, I thought it was already agreed that Flip's BEST year (last year) wasn't even as good as Crawford's average? This is correct, correct? So, I really don't see the argument in who's actually better.

Trust me, Flip is better.

[Wurider05]

I respect Zaza. Indifferent towards Marvin. Don't claim to know about Teague. Not a Crawford fan. I think Bibby is slightly more harm on "D" than help on "O." Josh is a bonehead, Al is below his curve, and Joe is a creampuff. Mo and Rio fit into their role.

What's going on with the glue to this squad? I'm sure Sund has the same opinion as I do: Flip knows his game and plays it better and more consistently than anyone else here. Why is his contract situation the last to be handled?

Damn dude you might want to find yourself a new NBA team to root for if you feel that way!!!! Damn!!!

[mrhonline]

I went back and looked at effective FG% for last season.

# of games with an eFG less than 54% --> Flip = 47 of 80 (58.75% of games)

# of games with an eFG less than 54% --> Crawford = 39 of 65 (65.00% of games)

There didn't seem to be a correlation between effectiveness and shots taken for either player.

[terrellgroup]

Yes,,someone who actually knows basketball. We need to sign Flip. If Bibby gets injuried, who takes over at point ? Crawford? I understand he can hold down that position,, but that would completely mess up the rotation. Crawford needs to available to play 1,2, or 3. Teague ,,well, we just don't know.

Sign Flip for three years, resign JJ, and if woodson allows Teague to develop,, with Bibby,Flip,Teague, JJ, Crawford,a more developed West, Atlanta would have a superior back court. Better then most. Without Flip,,,we're average plus. The reason is Flip can play 1 and 2,,,Crawford can play 1,2,and 3. With those type of versitile players coming off the bench, puts Atlanta over the top.

[bumpyphish1]

I respect Zaza. Indifferent towards Marvin. Don't claim to know about Teague. Not a Crawford fan. I think Bibby is slightly more harm on "D" than help on "O." Josh is a bonehead, Al is below his curve, and Joe is a creampuff. Mo and Rio fit into their role.

What's going on with the glue to this squad? I'm sure Sund has the same opinion as I do: Flip knows his game and plays it better and more consistently than anyone else here. Why is his contract situation the last to be handled?

Flip is gone. Just like I said he should be. Sund got it right. You are a fool if you think Flip is anything more than a black hole// TO machine.

[JackB1]

Flip is gone. Just like I said he should be. Sund got it right. You are a fool if you think Flip is anything more than a black hole// TO machine.

the problem with Flip leaving is that he was one of the few Hawks that drive the ball to the hole. Without Flip, I am afraid we will become even more

half court oriented. Crawford is a scorer, but he is primarily a jump shooter. I would love to see us keep Flip and Crawford and trade JJ and let Crawford

take JJ's spot. We could get a quality big for JJ and Crawford could fill in JJ's numbers.

[Peoriabird]

the problem with Flip leaving is that he was one of the few Hawks that drive the ball to the hole. Without Flip, I am afraid we will become even more

half court oriented. Crawford is a scorer, but he is primarily a jump shooter. I would love to see us keep Flip and Crawford and trade JJ and let Crawford

take JJ's spot. We could get a quality big for JJ and Crawford could fill in JJ's numbers.

You know that you have F'up fans following your team when the guy that receives the most praise is a player no one else wants.

[Traceman]

the problem with Flip leaving is that he was one of the few Hawks that drive the ball to the hole. Without Flip, I am afraid we will become even more

half court oriented. Crawford is a scorer, but he is primarily a jump shooter. I would love to see us keep Flip and Crawford and trade JJ and let Crawford

take JJ's spot. We could get a quality big for JJ and Crawford could fill in JJ's numbers.

I would bring Flip back in a heartbeat for the minimum (perhaps for the biannual exception depending on how much room we have under the luxury tax after we get our big man situation addressed). I think Teague has a chance to be really good but I remain unconvinced that we MUST play him some set amount THIS year unless he proves that he deserves to play. Not to mention who do we turn to if Bibby, Crawford or Teague get hurt? This is a win-now team. We may be a BUILDING team but we are not a RE-BUILDING team. If the Celtics can have Big Baby as their 4th big man, I have no problem having Flip as our 4th (or 5th if Teague is better) guard off the bench.

That said, Flip is NOT a better player than Crawford. Both guys are streaky and both are limited on defense (for different reasons) which is why both guys are best suited to come off the bench. That said when Crawford is on, he is virtually unguardable. There is a reason he has played a lot more in this league than Flip. He is infinitely more talented. I do think we will miss Flip's toughness. Crawford is a clutch player and he will hit big shots but 'Ol Flip definitely ain't scared to take (and make) big shots either.

[Dsinner]

Trust me, Flip is better.

Unless you have some stats to prove that I'd have to disagree. I've seen enough of both to know that crawford is better. I've also seen enough stats that PROVE this. Now, Flip may be a better bargain, that is a legit argument, but to say he's better and even to say he can play back up PG is complete BS.