Why so much Joe Johnson hate this year?

[NineOhTheRino]

Here's the deal:

If you're a Smoove fan then you're not a Marvin fan. In years back if you were an Acie fan then you hated Bibby. All that's cool but this latest round of division is amazing.

I'm starting to see "Crawford >>>> Joe" comments all over the place. Where is this coming from? Could it be that some Hawks fans are bitter that Joe didn't accept the Hawks 1st offer? Guys this is a business. Joe doesn't want to jump at the 1st deal when there is a possibly he could get better. You call it greedy but I see it as the American way of handling business. I don't think Sund or ASG felt disrespected or lost any sleep over this. These are intelligent business people with a history intense contract negations.

I'll buy "Crawford is better than Joe off the dribble" but saying that Crawford is a better all around player is laughable. Joe is still the Hawks most consistent offensive and defensive player so putting any player on this team before Joe just equates to JJ hate.

[thecampster]

Joe loses multiple possessions each game trying to dribble through a double team, or just plain not giving the ball up when the double comes. He's a momentum and possession killer. I've not been sold on him from day one. He is the only player of the top 6 that doesn't like to run. He is the weak cog at the moment to our flow and he's Woodson's crutch.

The hawks won 13 games without him and 26 games with him the next year and that is as much him as it was the 2nd year of the Josh's and other maturation/additions. The Hawks have been improving every year and that is not to the credit of Johnson but to the credit of the maturation of their players, the addition of a point guard who can shoot and a couple of key acquisitions/trades.

Fact is, Joe has stagnated this group some and his best value to the Hawks may be in a trade of himself and Marvin for one true stud center. Put any solid center in the middle, move horf to the 4, Josh to the 3 and let Crawford start and you have the makings of a very hard team to score on and defend.

[NineOhTheRino]

Joe loses multiple possessions each game trying to dribble through a double team, or just plain not giving the ball up when the double comes. He's a momentum and possession killer. I've not been sold on him from day one. He is the only player of the top 6 that doesn't like to run. He is the weak cog at the moment to our flow and he's Woodson's crutch.

The hawks won 13 games without him and 26 games with him the next year and that is as much him as it was the 2nd year of the Josh's and other maturation/additions. The Hawks have been improving every year and that is not to the credit of Johnson but to the credit of the maturation of their players, the addition of a point guard who can shoot and a couple of key acquisitions/trades.

Fact is, Joe has stagnated this group some and his best value to the Hawks may be in a trade of himself and Marvin for one true stud center. Put any solid center in the middle, move horf to the 4, Josh to the 3 and let Crawford start and you have the makings of a very hard team to score on and defend.

Some of that has to go on his teammates. One problem is that the other players are not moving without the ball. These guys are playing lazy basketball; There basically standing around waiting for Joe to make a move. If Woody can get these guys to cut to the basket and move around the perimeter then Joe would have an easier time passing out the double.

[AtLaS]

The Hawks have been improving every year and that is not to the credit of Johnson but to the credit of the maturation of their players, the addition of a point guard who can shoot and a couple of key acquisitions/trades.

This is just ridiculous. If it weren't for Johnson, we'd still have the longest playoff drought in the NBA.

Fact is, Joe has stagnated this group some and his best value to the Hawks may be in a trade of himself and Marvin for one true stud center. Put any solid center in the middle, move horf to the 4, Josh to the 3 and let Crawford start and you have the makings of a very hard team to score on and defend.

Are you really suggesting this? Crawford has been a starter for 10 years and hasn't made the playoffs yet. No thanks. And I'm a big Crawford fan.

The great thing about having him off the bench is that if he isn't playing well, we don't suffer as much. With him as a starter, we have to rely on him for consistent points every night which has been the complete opposite of his career thus far.

[JackB1]

Joe is frustrating at times because he disrupts the flow of the game with his one on one stuff. He also turns the ball over way too much for an "ALL STAR" and he doesn't seem to recognize when he's having an off night.

Joe needs to realize the team isn't all about him anymore and play more team ball. We don't need him taking 15 shots every night. Also, does this guy EVER show any emotion on the court? I have never seen a duller

"court personality" in my life.

[buckeye242424]

Joe Johnson is a critical piece to this puzzle. We need him to play, and play well. I've been a fan of his since we signed him, and I still am. That being written, something is off. And I'm not meaning stats. Statistically he's doing what he should be doing, for the most part. It's in his demeanor, his body language, his interaction with teammates on the floor. He seems annoyed, and it's carrying through the game and into the post game comments. Is it the pressure of playing for the contract? Is it the obvious improvement of Smoove and the addition of Crawford stealing his thunder in his contract year? I don't know? Something just seems off to me...just my opinion.

[Swatguy]

First off, ASG took a Gigantic hit to sign him, blessed him with 20 mil. while he clearly was not a 20 mil. player. Then he does not reciprocate and sign the very fair and good contract last summer. That holds the Team hostage. Secondly he comes off as a prima dona and trashes his teamates in the media.

Kamen and Gordon for Joe and Marvin.

[bonethugz]

Here's the deal:

If you're a Smoove fan then you're not a Marvin fan. In years back if you were an Acie fan then you hated Bibby. All that's cool but this latest round of division is amazing.

I'm starting to see "Crawford >>>> Joe" comments all over the place. Where is this coming from? Could it be that some Hawks fans are bitter that Joe didn't accept the Hawks 1st offer? Guys this is a business. Joe doesn't want to jump at the 1st deal when there is a possibly he could get better. You call it greedy but I see it as the American way of handling business. I don't think Sund or ASG felt disrespected or lost any sleep over this. These are intelligent business people with a history intense contract negations.

I'll buy "Crawford is better than Joe off the dribble" but saying that Crawford is a better all around player is laughable. Joe is still the Hawks most consistent offensive and defensive player so putting any player on this team before Joe just equates to JJ hate.

ok, i love both smoove and mavrin, bibby too. loved acie.

now, business point of view huh? why are we paying top money for just a very very good player? the guy is not marketable. tell me how many joe johnson jersey were sold? who really come to see joe johnson besides hawks fans? i'm still saying joe johnson instead just joe because i'm not so sure if i can just use his first name and people know who i'm talking about. besides, he's still just a very very good player. he's not kobe or lebron or dwyane. why am i hate joe johnson? no i don't hate him but now i've seen him for five years and i'm not so sure he truly deserves a max deal.

[Buzzard]

Here's the deal:

If you're a Smoove fan then you're not a Marvin fan. In years back if you were an Acie fan then you hated Bibby. All that's cool but this latest round of division is amazing.

I'm starting to see "Crawford >>>> Joe" comments all over the place. Where is this coming from? Could it be that some Hawks fans are bitter that Joe didn't accept the Hawks 1st offer? Guys this is a business. Joe doesn't want to jump at the 1st deal when there is a possibly he could get better. You call it greedy but I see it as the American way of handling business. I don't think Sund or ASG felt disrespected or lost any sleep over this. These are intelligent business people with a history intense contract negations.

I'll buy "Crawford is better than Joe off the dribble" but saying that Crawford is a better all around player is laughable. Joe is still the Hawks most consistent offensive and defensive player so putting any player on this team before Joe just equates to JJ hate.

I for one think its comical that is now saying he wants to be an elite player. Vets like Kobe, Lebron, Shaq, Wade don't make this statement. Their big statements every season, contract year or not, is they want to win championships. I don't have any hate for JJ; he is a all-star player. But rookies say things like they want to be elite; not 3 time all-stars and 8 year vets.

Even as bad as Miami was last season; Wades goal was to win a championship. I would have been happier if JJ would have left the elite talk out and just focused on winning a championship.

Edited November 12, 2009 by Buzzard

[NineOhTheRino]

I for one think its comical that is now saying he wants to be an elite player. Vets like Kobe, Lebron, Shaq, Wade don't make this statement. Their big statements every season, contract year or not, is they want to win championships. I don't have any hate for JJ; he is a all-star player. But rookies say things like they want to be elite; not 3 time all-stars and 8 year vets.

Even as bad as Miami was last season; Wades goal was to win a championship. I would have been happier if JJ would have left the elite talk out and just focused on winning a championship.

not questioning you Buzzard but do you have the actual quote of the alleged statement. Just want to see in what context Joe made the remarks.

[Buzzard]

not questioning you Buzzard but do you have the actual quote of the alleged statement. Just want to see in what context Joe made the remarks.

Here is the gist from a post earlier this year:

"My sole focus right now is on this team and what we're trying to accomplish this season," Johnson said. "I have some goals set for this season for my team, and I have some individual goals set for myself as well. I really feel like I can be one of the elite players in this league, and it's going to be an exciting year"

Link to thread and artcle:

JJ's goals and comments

To me a 8 year vet worrying about becoming a elite player is comical and trivial compared to wanting to win a championship (which he did not specify as the team goal he set for us). Just my opinion but it did rub me the wrong way...

Edited November 12, 2009 by Buzzard

[niremetal]

Joe loses multiple possessions each game trying to dribble through a double team, or just plain not giving the ball up when the double comes. He's a momentum and possession killer. I've not been sold on him from day one. He is the only player of the top 6 that doesn't like to run. He is the weak cog at the moment to our flow and he's Woodson's crutch.

The hawks won 13 games without him and 26 games with him the next year and that is as much him as it was the 2nd year of the Josh's and other maturation/additions. The Hawks have been improving every year and that is not to the credit of Johnson but to the credit of the maturation of their players, the addition of a point guard who can shoot and a couple of key acquisitions/trades.

Fact is, Joe has stagnated this group some and his best value to the Hawks may be in a trade of himself and Marvin for one true stud center. Put any solid center in the middle, move horf to the 4, Josh to the 3 and let Crawford start and you have the makings of a very hard team to score on and defend.

1) Who's going to score in that lineup? Crawford? Yeah, because the Bulls, Knicks, and Warriors all did real well when he was counted on to be the offensive frontman. I guess Crawford scoring fewer points than JJ on a lower shooting percentage while commiting more turnovers was all an optical illusion that lasted for several years.

2) You want to move the best interior help defender in the NBA out to the perimeter by making him SF?

NineOh, you've got it pegged. JJ dominates the ball, I agree. But why don't y'all go talk to the folks in New York and Frisco about Crawford. Like Flip last year, people are ok with Crawford being a ballhog because he's new. But "new" is not "better."

Edited November 12, 2009 by niremetal

[niremetal]

Here is the gist from a post earlier this year:

Link to thread and artcle:

JJ's goals and comments

Like I said to me a 8 year vet worrying about becoming a elite player is comical and trivial compared to wanting to win a championship (which he did not specify as the team goal he set for us). Just my opinion but it did rub me the wrong way...

So I guess that the first part of the statement you quoted is being dismissed as window dressing? Is he not supposed to have any individual goals at all? Get real.

[Buzzard]

So I guess that the first part of the statement you quoted is being dismissed as window dressing? Is he not supposed to have any individual goals at all? Get real.

Not going to argue with you about this statement. The comical part is if he could be elite; as in Kobe, Lebron, Wade he would already be there after 8 years. Like I said rookies make these statements not eight year vets and three time all-stars. The other comical part is he did not specify championship as one of his team goals. Lot of balls for his individual goals; no balls IMO for the team goals...

Wade, Kobe, Lebron. Shaq specify championships every year; not individual goals. He wants to be elite; the primary stated goal should always be a championship.

[niremetal]

Not going to argue with you about this statement. The comical part is if he could be elite; as in Kobe, Lebron, Wade he would already be there after 8 years. Like I said rookies make these statements not eight year vets and three time all-stars. The other comical part is he did not specify championship as one of his team goals. Lot of balls for his individual goals; no balls IMO for the team goals...

Wade, Kobe, Lebron. Shaq specify championships every year; not individual goals. He wants to be elite; the primary stated goal should always be a championship.

You're right. He said his sole focus is on what the team is trying to accomplish, but you jump up and down and point at scream at the part of his statement where he says he also has individual goals and say that's the only part that he has "balls" for.

And PS - I have no problem with a guy turning 29 and deciding he wants to go from All-Star to elite. Seemed to work ok for Nash and Nowitzki. Worked ok for their teams too.

As I said, get real.

Edited November 12, 2009 by niremetal

[Buzzard]

You're right. He said his sole focus is on what the team is trying to accomplish, but you jump up and down and point at scream at the part of his statement where he says he also has individual goals and say that's the only part that he has "balls" for.

And PS - I have no problem with a guy turning 29 and deciding he wants to go from All-Star to elite. Seemed to work ok for Nash and Nowitzki. Worked ok for their teams too.

As I said, get real.

I am getting real. As I stated, no hate for JJ. He is an all-star. There is a big difference between having a temper tantrum and bashing the guys complete game (which I am not) and just pointing out the differences between what elite players say at the start of the season and what JJ says at the start of the season.

I don't recall Nash or Nowitski ever stating they wanted to become (go from all-star 8 year vet to elite) elite players at the start of any season. Maybe you can find me their statements to that.

If you happen to find one, bet it came a whole lot sooner than their 8th year in the league; and while they were still much younger than JJ...

Edited November 12, 2009 by Buzzard

[khaos7]

My thing about Joe this year is the timing of it all. Based off the interview Josh Smith (essentially saying things should be kept in the family) had after the Denver win, Joe didn't gripe to his teammates; he did so to the media. Things aren't perfect. We know that. We have to improve defensively and we can't continue to give up 100pts a night. That said, we are 6-2. You'd think it was the other way around.

So, heaven forbid, if we lose to Boston, is Joe going to gripe about that too? With every loss, will we hear him say "guys don't know their roles" like we did after the Charlotte loss or "We're soft" like we did after the Lakers's loss? To me that's as detrimental to the team as not saying anything. Say it in the locker room.

I'm a Joe supporter. I don't think the team can move forward without him (or a significant upgrade). That said, he's letting me down with his ill-timed comments. Horford is averaging a double double. Save the Lakers game, Josh has actually played like he has a mind. Bibby has sacrificed minutes and points for the team. Crawford has made strides to play within Woody's system and embraced the concept of the team. There are some positives. Yet, are leader has bad body language on the court and I'm almost convinced he'll whine in the media after every loss. I'm all for Joe maximizing his money making potential. However, if he wants to leave or he's unhappy, I pray Sund doesn't let Joe catch us with our pants down and makes a move before the deadline.

[jerrywest]

We all know JJ is the most important player of this team.

We all know that JSmooveFemaleFans thought we all are Smoove haters for asking him to stop shooting 3s.

Just because we are asking JJ to pass out of double teams and not pound the ball for 15 seconds does not mean we are JJ haters.

[MaceCase]

In a word?

"fear"

[Antmillennium]

My beef with Joe Johnson is that he is being a complete hypocrite this year. I have no problem with him turning down a contract if he feels he can get more on the open market. However, what I have a HUGE problem with is him calling other players on the team selfish and saying they're all about "me, me, me" while he has been playing the most selfish basketball on this team. Joe needs to look in the mirror and practice what he preaches. It looks very "peculiar" for Joe to complain about others not knowing their roles and playing selfishly, and then turn around and CLEARLY be the most selfish player on the floor. It looks especially bad for Joe Johnson being that he is saying these things in a contract year. It seems as if Joe is looking out for his own interests as opposed to putting the interests of the team first.