Why so much Joe Johnson hate this year?

[tremor]

JJ's last comments give impression that he separates himself from the team. It's not something any fan would like to see and especially Joe's talent fans.

But Crawford is not even in the same league as a player.

[Crank]

1) Who's going to score in that lineup? Crawford? Yeah, because the Bulls, Knicks, and Warriors all did real well when he was counted on to be the offensive frontman. I guess Crawford scoring fewer points than JJ on a lower shooting percentage while commiting more turnovers was all an optical illusion that lasted for several years.

2) You want to move the best interior help defender in the NBA out to the perimeter by making him SF?

NineOh, you've got it pegged. JJ dominates the ball, I agree. But why don't y'all go talk to the folks in New York and Frisco about Crawford. Like Flip last year, people are ok with Crawford being a ballhog because he's new. But "new" is not "better."

Good Lord where does this stuff come from ?

When was Crawford counted on to carry the Bulls offensively ?

The knicks were never Crawfords team it was Marburys team ? Marbury was making more than Joe is right now ? The knicks traded multiple #1's for Eddy Curry ? Where is he now ?

The Warriors had Monta Ellis who they paid over 60 million as well as Andre Biedrens who they paid 60 million too as well . They also gave Corey Maggette 50 million and then extended Pyscho man Steven Jackson and somehow Crawford was the frontman offensively ?

It seems to me that every team you mentioned sucked because they invested max type dollars in non max type players and when the expectations were raised none of them could live up to them.Crawford was the guy asked to pick up their but hes not a #1 and I think everyone knows this .

What you need to ask yourself is that if JJ walks do you really think we wouldnt be able to score points ? I think we would actually run more plays and fewer iso's if you ask me and that may not be such a bad thing.

Crawford has not taken more than 16 shots in a game this season but somehow hes a ballhog even though thats what the coach has flat out said thats what he wants him to do when he comes in the game . Why should we care what knicks fans or warriors fans think ? Those organizations have their own problems that have nothing to do with Crawford as weve seen the past few weeks . Shouldnt we be judging Crawford but what he does in a hawks uni just as we should do Bibby and everyone else ?

If Joe leaves we will count on Crawford to score but it wouldnt be about Crawford in the last year of his deal moreso than it would be about whether Al and Smoove are bonafide stars and ready to stepup and carry the team .

As for the original question of why Joe is getting so much flack this year ? Its quite simple the expectations have been raised and while Joe is a better all around player than Crawford I think that Crawford has made Joe look bad simply by sharing the ball . Its almost as if Crawfords ability to score and pass has placed a spotlight on Joe and his unwillingness to move the ball at times . His calling out the team in the media just makes the spotlight bigger .

[Swatguy]

First off, ASG took a Gigantic hit to sign him, blessed him with 20 mil. while he clearly was not a 20 mil. player. Then he does not reciprocate and sign the very fair and good contract last summer. That holds the Team hostage. Secondly he comes off as a prima dona and trashes his teamates in the media.

Kamen and Gordon for Joe and Marvin.

I get the minus 1 for telling the truth.

The more I think of it the more it sickens me.

For ASG to go through all it has, mostly for his personal benefit, he doesn't sign(an attitude of superiority). Punkish. He being soft and calling his teamates soft is presumptuous. Punkish. His actions are the most selfish of this team.

His arrogance is the things of a spoiled punk. He really needs to shut up.

[niremetal]

Good Lord where does this stuff come from ?

When was Crawford counted on to carry the Bulls offensively ?

The knicks were never Crawfords team it was Marburys team ? Marbury was making more than Joe is right now ? The knicks traded multiple #1's for Eddy Curry ? Where is he now ?

The Warriors had Monta Ellis who they paid over 60 million as well as Andre Biedrens who they paid 60 million too as well . They also gave Corey Maggette 50 million and then extended Pyscho man Steven Jackson and somehow Crawford was the frontman offensively ?

It seems to me that every team you mentioned sucked because they invested max type dollars in non max type players and when the expectations were raised none of them could live up to them.Crawford was the guy asked to pick up their but hes not a #1 and I think everyone knows this .

What you need to ask yourself is that if JJ walks do you really think we wouldnt be able to score points ? I think we would actually run more plays and fewer iso's if you ask me and that may not be such a bad thing.

Crawford has not taken more than 16 shots in a game this season but somehow hes a ballhog even though thats what the coach has flat out said thats what he wants him to do when he comes in the game . Why should we care what knicks fans or warriors fans think ? Those organizations have their own problems that have nothing to do with Crawford as weve seen the past few weeks . Shouldnt we be judging Crawford but what he does in a hawks uni just as we should do Bibby and everyone else ?

If Joe leaves we will count on Crawford to score but it wouldnt be about Crawford in the last year of his deal moreso than it would be about whether Al and Smoove are bonafide stars and ready to stepup and carry the team .

As for the original question of why Joe is getting so much flack this year ? Its quite simple the expectations have been raised and while Joe is a better all around player than Crawford I think that Crawford has made Joe look bad simply by sharing the ball . Its almost as if Crawfords ability to score and pass has placed a spotlight on Joe and his unwillingness to move the ball at times . His calling out the team in the media just makes the spotlight bigger .

Jamal led Chicago in scoring his last year there. He led the Knicks in scoring twice, and beat out Marbury 3 of 4 times. He scored more - both per game and total - than Monta did last year. Jackson did outscore Crawford, and I admit that I was wrong about him there. But Marbury and Ellis? Doesn't help your argument to cite guys who spent most of their time injured. Like it or not, the Knicks' offense ran through Crawford for 3 years. Ask Knicks fans. And why should we care what they think? BECAUSE THEY WATCHED THE MAN PLAY. Something I'm wondering whether you've done, considering that you seem to be under the impression that Marbury was the Knicks' frontman in anything but the payroll for the last 4 years.

And you're living in a dreamworld if you think that the one-on-one ISO plays started or end with Joe. They are what Woody's "system" entails. Lue, JJ, Flip, Crawford...they all go/went one on one to create offense.

You're also living in a dreamworld if you think Jamal is either less selfish or a better passer than JJ. Again, ask people who actually watched him play before this year. Or hell, watch games this year. Or just check the box score and see that JJ is averaging both more assists per game and more per 36 minutes.

And lastly, you say this:

Crawford has not taken more than 16 shots in a game this season but somehow hes a ballhog even though thats what the coach has flat out said thats what he wants him to do when he comes in the game

So I guess "that's what the coach wants him to do" is a good alibi for Crawford but not for JJ. Ok, thanks. That tells us all we need to know about you.

Edited November 13, 2009 by niremetal

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I just think people need something to complain about. We're 6-2, and other than the debacle @ Charlotte and the 3rd quarter ( 4 minute ) collapse in L.A., there isn't much to complain about.

If you really look at it, the major difference in his game this season, is that instead of settling for the 21 foot jumper, he's probing and driving, trying to take a 12 - 15 foot jumper. And that's a good thing, because it's a higher percentage shot. Once Marvin starts making his shots again, the assists will go back over 5 per game.

Not too much to say about a SG that averages 20 pts - 6 rebs - 5 ast . . shoots in the mid 40s% FG . . 90% FT . . and is the best man defender on the team. Well . . then they'll cry about your 3pt%, even though you're taking less this year.

JJ, keep doing what you're doing man. We're going to need you to be "selfish" just like this come April.

And keep telling the truth when the truth needs to be told. They all wanted the "vocal JJ" for years. But now, some don't like what they hear.

Oh well. Keep doing what you're doing.

[Swatguy]

And keep telling the truth when the truth needs to be told. They all wanted the "vocal JJ" for years. But now, some don't like what they hear.

Oh well. Keep doing what you're doing.

I don't have a prpblem with Joe's game this season. I see him more active in the mid-range and at the rim, which is welcome. My problem is Handcuffing the team by not signing and whining to the media. His belly-aching to the scribes is not the "vocal JJ" needed.

Again: He should have been grateful giving him that Huge initial contract and the follow up offer. Especially considering how he has underachieved (under the lights" (playoff and big games). Readdressing the contract now and allowing this team to further develop and reach a plateau of contenders. He sounds more like "if we don't such a such I walk".

Well Joe, Walk. Or shut up(to the media) and play.

[Buzzard]

I just think people need something to complain about. We're 6-2, and other than the debacle @ Charlotte and the 3rd quarter ( 4 minute ) collapse in L.A., there isn't much to complain about.

If you really look at it, the major difference in his game this season, is that instead of settling for the 21 foot jumper, he's probing and driving, trying to take a 12 - 15 foot jumper. And that's a good thing, because it's a higher percentage shot. Once Marvin starts making his shots again, the assists will go back over 5 per game.

Not too much to say about a SG that averages 20 pts - 6 rebs - 5 ast . . shoots in the mid 40s% FG . . 90% FT . . and is the best man defender on the team. Well . . then they'll cry about your 3pt%, even though you're taking less this year.

JJ, keep doing what you're doing man. We're going to need you to be "selfish" just like this come April.

And keep telling the truth when the truth needs to be told. They all wanted the "vocal JJ" for years. But now, some don't like what they hear.

Oh well. Keep doing what you're doing.

Its a forum and you are going to get differing opinions (good, bad, and indifferent). Should be expected but I guess you think it is cool only when you are critical.

I would really like to hear JJ say we stunk it up when he goes 5 of 12, 0-4 on three pointers, with 3 assist, and 1 rebound; instead of they stunk it up ( some people don't know their roles). The they comment should be handled behind closed doors. I would also like to hear him say I want to win a championship.

Maybe after 8 years he is still learning how to do these things; but I do not think that is to much to expect of an elite player and captain of our team. You disagree that is cool; we are all entitled to our opinions.

Edited November 13, 2009 by Buzzard

[Crank]

Jamal led Chicago in scoring his last year there. He led the Knicks in scoring twice, and beat out Marbury 3 of 4 times. He scored more - both per game and total - than Monta did last year. Jackson did outscore Crawford, and I admit that I was wrong about him there. But Marbury and Ellis? Doesn't help your argument to cite guys who spent most of their time injured. Like it or not, the Knicks' offense ran through Crawford for 3 years. Ask Knicks fans. And why should we care what they think? BECAUSE THEY WATCHED THE MAN PLAY. Something I'm wondering whether you've done, considering that you seem to be under the impression that Marbury was the Knicks' frontman in anything but the payroll for the last 4 years.

And you're living in a dreamworld if you think that the one-on-one ISO plays started or end with Joe. They are what Woody's "system" entails. Lue, JJ, Flip, Crawford...they all go/went one on one to create offense.

You're also living in a dreamworld if you think Jamal is either less selfish or a better passer than JJ. Again, ask people who actually watched him play before this year. Or hell, watch games this year. Or just check the box score and see that JJ is averaging both more assists per game and more per 36 minutes.

And lastly, you say this:

Jamal led the Bulls in scoring because they traded away Jalen Rose after the season started who was the Bulls leading scorer .He started the year at pg according o the Bulls site

He led the knicks in scoring ONE time but that knicks team was never built around him .He led the team in scoring because Marbury imploded and quit on the team after 10 games or so .

Monta Ellis was coming back from injury and didnt return until midseason but Jackson and Maggette were taking all the shots .It was never Crawfords team and he was never the offensive focal point.

Marbury wasnt injured he got into an argument on a plane with the coach and quit on the team . He returned several days later but then took a leave and then eventually decided to have surgery .

the Knicks leading returning scorer that year was Eddy Curry who saw Zach Randolph and basically ate his way out of the league .

Not one time was Crawford ever the PLANNED focal point of the offense going into the season until last year just before he was traded , In every other year before his last one there was someone else who the offense was supposed to run through . I dont need a knick fan to tell me that when they traded two # picks for Eddy Curry that he was the focal point or that Marbury and his 18 mil + was considered the franchise. Thats pretty much common knowledge .

You assume that if Joe leaves that Woody will return.I assume that if Joe leaves that it wont be the only shakeup that occurs . If Joe is traded at the deadline then of course I would expect Woody to continue with his current offense until the end of the season but if Joe is allowed to walk and we have an entire offseason to plan it would be crazy to assume that Woody would be back and that if he did come back he would ignore the improvements of Josh and Al and still run isolation through Crawford who would be in his final year '

Where did I say Crawford is less selfish or that JJ even was selfish . Im not living in a dreamworld you are making up things to fit your argument. Crawford is routinely;y making the easy play in the same offense while JJ is routinely making bad decisions and thus thats why hes look ed so bad at times this year .Even though the team has played well and several different players have stepped up JJ has not been content to take what the defense is giving him if that means he doesnt get his numbers . I know that may hurt your feelings but thats just a fact because with this team he could average almost a triple double if he got his head right.

So I guess "that's what the coach wants him to do" is a good alibi for Crawford but not for JJ. Ok, thanks. That tells us all we need to know about you.

Who is we ?

and you think Woody is telling JJ to turn it over and force it 1 on 3 even at the start of games ? or dribble for 20 seconds . Its obvious to anyone that JJ is forcing it and I dont mean by simply being aggressive offensively . I mean he is not making the easy play instead choosing to force the issue even at the start of games and even when someone else is having a good night offensively .

The entire point of isolation basketball is to force the double team and then move the ball but the more Joe hold onto the ball the less guys will move without the ball and the more turnovers and tough shots he will have .

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I don't have a prpblem with Joe's game this season. I see him more active in the mid-range and at the rim, which is welcome. My problem is Handcuffing the team by not signing and whining to the media. His belly-aching to the scribes is not the "vocal JJ" needed.

Again: He should have been grateful giving him that Huge initial contract and the follow up offer. Especially considering how he has underachieved (under the lights" (playoff and big games). Readdressing the contract now and allowing this team to further develop and reach a plateau of contenders. He sounds more like "if we don't such a such I walk".

Well Joe, Walk. Or shut up(to the media) and play.

Handcuffing the team?

The Hawks did that the minute they traded Speedy and Acie for Crawford, because both Speedy and Acie's contracts could've came off the books in 2010. They knew Jamal had 2 yrs @ 20 mill left on his deal, yet, they traded for him anyway. JJ didn't do that, SUND did.

JJ didn't sign Bibby to 3 yrs @ 18 mill . . or Zaza to 3yrs @ 15 mill . . or Marvin to 5yrs @ 37.5 mill . . SUND did.

JJ didn't sign 2 stiffs like Joe Smith and Collins, and dupe the fan base that theyse guys could help us . . SUND did.

Didn't we Hawks fans have all of this mapped out in 2008, in regards of the summer of 2009?

- re-sign Marvin

- let Bibby go

- let Zaza go

- trade Speedy, or let his deal expire in 2010

- let Acie take over for Bibby

But SUND changed all of that, when he traded for Crawford. And he definitely changed al of that when he brought back Bibby and Zaza. Remember, if we don't re-sign those 2, that's 19 MILLION OFF THE BOOKS. But SUND re-signed both of them. I'm not mad at him for doing so.

But in retrospect, we COULD'VE rolled with this squad this year:

STARTERS: Acie - JJ - Marvin - Smoove - Horford

BENCH: Teague - Flip - Evans - Solo - Zaza ( West - Morris - Speedy )

With that group, the big questionmark is at PG. Could an Acie - Teague combo be effective at PG? Then you'd see if Flip could give us the production he gave us in the 2nd half of the season. All I know, is that we'd keep 7 of the core 8 from last year's playoff squad intact. And financial-wise, we'd be in damn good shape to re-sign JJ ( no matter what people offered us )

But here's what I'm getting at Swat. We've known for years now that this day would come. We've known that we'd either have to pay JJ, trade him, or let him walk. And before SUND came onto the scene, we were definitely in position to lock up JJ without much resistance . . IF . he wanted to come back.

But when SUND locks up all of the pieces around JJ . . then comes at JJ with a 4yr @ 60 mill offer ( basically paying him the same thing he made in his previous contract ) . . you expect JJ just to take that offer, instead of seeing what he's worth on the open market?

The NBA is a business man. These teams don't care about players. So the players have to look out for themselves. So just because you in particular think all JJ is worth is 15 mill a year @ 60 mill, doesn't mean he should take it out of loyalty to the Hawks.

LOL . . look how they did Flip. And with the way Flip played last year, he definitely deserved a multi-year deal starting at least at 3 mill a year. But when the Hawks traded for Crawford, they basically gave Flip the finger.

So in JJ's case, he'd be stupid to take a 60 mill contract, when he and his agent could pretty much set the asking price next summer. A much HIGHER asking price. His agent could be like . .

"OK . you all know who my client is. He's the 2nd best SG in free agency and he's the 5th or 6th best free agent overall. We know that my client can't expect to command MAX money, but it is my job to get the best deal possible. So I want at least a 75 million contract to start out. We don't care how many years, but the total amount starts @ 75 million."

Then JJ's agent goes to SUND and says . . .

"You know JJ would rather stay in ATL to finish the job. Like I told the other GMs, the bidding starts at 75 million. You do have that 6th year option, so if you do give us a 6 yr deal, we want at least 75 mill in the first 5 years. Player option in year 5 .. team option in year 6."

That's how JJ's agent may play this. Don't look at it as JJ turning down 15 mill a year. Look at it as him turning down 60 million . . . when he may can secure an 80 - 100 million contract. Because once these teams start jockeying for position, JJ will get more than a 75 mill a year contract. Probably closer to 80 - 85 mill.

But as far as JJ "handcuffing the team", nah man. You better blame SUND for that one. Not JJ.

Crawford's 10 mill in 2010 - 11 is what is handcuffing the team, especially if Crawford's addition turns out to not make us better at the end of the year.

[niremetal]

I'm sorry, but it's pretty clear that you either have not watched the Hawks much, don't remember how often Lue and Flip (and now Crawford) went one-on-one and ignored open teammates (and somehow managed to also miss JJ's time in Phoenix under D'Antoni, where he showed no problem playing in a ball movement-heavy system), and/or selectively ignore things that don't fit into your view of JJ and the Hawks offense.

Oh, and Crawford led the Knicks in scoring twice - in '05-'06 and '07-'08. To quote a friend of mine over on Sekou's blog - done with you, fool.

Edited November 13, 2009 by niremetal

[Plainview1981]

I just think people need something to complain about. We're 6-2, and other than the debacle @ Charlotte and the 3rd quarter ( 4 minute ) collapse in L.A., there isn't much to complain about.

If you really look at it, the major difference in his game this season, is that instead of settling for the 21 foot jumper, he's probing and driving, trying to take a 12 - 15 foot jumper. And that's a good thing, because it's a higher percentage shot. Once Marvin starts making his shots again, the assists will go back over 5 per game.

Not too much to say about a SG that averages 20 pts - 6 rebs - 5 ast . . shoots in the mid 40s% FG . . 90% FT . . and is the best man defender on the team. Well . . then they'll cry about your 3pt%, even though you're taking less this year.

JJ, keep doing what you're doing man. We're going to need you to be "selfish" just like this come April.

And keep telling the truth when the truth needs to be told. They all wanted the "vocal JJ" for years. But now, some don't like what they hear.

Oh well. Keep doing what you're doing.

How about the team still not being able to defend? This might be the worst defensive team in the NBA. Probably a bottom 5 at best.

[MaceCase]

How about the team still not being able to defend? This might be the worst defensive team in the NBA. Probably a bottom 5 at best.

Actually middle of the pack but thanks for playing anyway.

[Swatguy]

But here's what I'm getting at Swat. We've known for years now that this day would come. We've known that we'd either have to pay JJ, trade him, or let him walk. And before SUND came onto the scene, we were definitely in position to lock up JJ without much resistance . . IF . he wanted to come back.

But when SUND locks up all of the pieces around JJ . . then comes at JJ with a 4yr @ 60 mill offer ( basically paying him the same thing he made in his previous contract ) . . you expect JJ just to take that offer, instead of seeing what he's worth on the open market?

The NBA is a business man. These teams don't care about players. So the players have to look out for themselves. So just because you in particular think all JJ is worth is 15 mill a year @ 60 mill, doesn't mean he should take it out of loyalty to the Hawks.

But as far as JJ "handcuffing the team", nah man. You better blame SUND for that one. Not JJ.

Crawford's 10 mill in 2010 - 11 is what is handcuffing the team, especially if Crawford's addition turns out to not make us better at the end of the year.

I understand your view point. I'm stuck in my mind thinking about when (signing Joe away from Pheonix) no one would honor Joe with the Payday he got. There is no indication that he wants to return. That's what I see as the Handcuffing When the center-piece moves away, a definite void is created. ASG opened wide open for him and now he is zipping up his pants and is looking for another woman. It is buisiness and it is dysfunctional. On top of all that, he is talking "out of school" blasting his teammates. I'd take Kamen and Gordan if he won't be here.

[niremetal]

I am getting real. As I stated, no hate for JJ. He is an all-star. There is a big difference between having a temper tantrum and bashing the guys complete game (which I am not) and just pointing out the differences between what elite players say at the start of the season and what JJ says at the start of the season.

I don't recall Nash or Nowitski ever stating they wanted to become (go from all-star 8 year vet to elite) elite players at the start of any season. Maybe you can find me their statements to that.

If you happen to find one, bet it came a whole lot sooner than their 8th year in the league; and while they were still much younger than JJ...

Well, would you look at that:

Hawks forward Josh Smith, whose two personal goals for the season are to make his first NBA All-Star Game and first All-Defensive team, is playing some excellent basketball.

OH MY GOD, JOSH SMITH SET PERSONAL GOALS FOR HIMSELF AND DIDN'T SAY A WORD ABOUT WINNING A TITLE. WHAT A DOUCHE.

</snark>

Edited November 13, 2009 by niremetal

[Buzzard]

Well, would you look at that:

OH MY GOD, JOSH SMITH SET PERSONAL GOALS FOR HIMSELF AND DIDN'T SAY A WORD ABOUT WINNING A TITLE. WHAT A DOUCHE.

</snark>

You don't have to type in caps to get a point across; and I never called JJ or Smoove such a childish name. The title of this thread is "Why so much Joe Johnson hate this year" and I probably should not have to replied since I don't hate JJ. Hate is a very strong word and loosely thrown around to much on the Internet; when what most people mean is they dislike something. I am answering the question without name calling or immature responses; because I dislike one press comment and think the other is bogus.

#1 JJ wants to be an elite player. I stated most elite players specify championships as a goal at the start of the season; you have yet to make this point null and void. And you are not going to be able to.

#2 JJ dished one or more of his team mates in the press after a very poor game; yet failed to acknowledge his own poor play. JJ does not use the word "we" a lot when dealing out criticisms for bad games. For me that is the sign of a poor leader and therefore a player who is not yet ready to be an elite player.

I have a firm grasp of setting goals for oneself in life. It is all about (baby steps) reaching small goals while moving toward your ultimate goal. Josh Smith is 24 years old, never made a all star team. JJ is 28 years old, a three time all-star, and the captain of our team. I would love to hear them both say "I want to win a championship"; but I do hold our captain and three time all-star to a slightly higher standard than a 24 year old potential all-star.

JJ is a awesome player. Talent and skills in abundance. He is not a douche bag as you stated; nor is Josh Smith. But bashing our players in the press is not something I hold in high regard. Especially when said basher is our team captain, played just as poorly as anyone else on the team, yet made damn sure he did not call himself out. IMO toning down the "they" press critiques after a bad loss is a baby step JJ needs to take if he wants to become an elite player; its a minimum if he wants to become a good leader. Then maybe he will be ready to set the next goal that most elite players have, which is winning a championship.

I do not think either are douche bags. And when it comes to leadership; Smoove in my opinion has a little bit better shot at being a good team leader than JJ. My reason for this is point number 2. He is only 24 years old; yet he is controlled enough to not throw his team mates under the bus after a bad loss.

Instead of comparing JJ to Smoove, I think it is appropriate to compare him to other elite players. You obviously either don't agree or you want to sidetrack that point. I do not think JJ will ever be elite. I compare his game to Michael Finley's, who was an all-star and a outstanding compliment to some great players. I think this is where JJ's niche is.

He can still become a good leader but greatness was never in the cards for him. I honestly think he knows this now; and the elite player talk is just needed window dressing in a contract year.

Edited November 13, 2009 by Buzzard

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Buzzard, he's always said "we".

After the Laker loss, he said "we're soft" ( just like Deron Williams did Wednesday night about his team. )

After the Bobcat loss, he used the word "we" again.

In the link posted in the previous post, JJ correctly states that when Smoove stays close to the basket on both ends, that he's an asset to us.

Matter of fact, the guy that writes on the hoopinion blog about the Hawks, was "upset" at JJ that he didn't name names when directing his media comments toward somebody.

And you keep wanting to cite the Charlotte game as an indication of his bad performance. But you fail to mention that the guy had 11 points at halftime, even though he didn't take a shot in the final 5 minutes of that half. And part of the reason why he didn't, was because Smoove uncharacteristically ( for this year ) looked to score on just about every Hawk possession to close the half.

Woody even take him out of the game with a minute to go, either to keep him from picking up a 3rd foul . . or because he was shooting too much and it wasn't helping us cut into the decifit.

In the 2nd half, Smoove kept shooting, and the lead kept growing.

I mean, if you want JJ to say . . "hey, I didn't have a good game" . . fine. But that game started to turn with Smith came back into the game in the 2nd quarter, and started to look for his own offense, instead of it happening within the flow of the game.

And even though JJ used "we" when describing that loss, there's little doubt who he was talking about.

And I think the reason why Smoove wasn't upset at his comments, is because he knows that Jj was right.

[AHF]

I get the minus 1 for telling the truth.

The more I think of it the more it sickens me.

For ASG to go through all it has, mostly for his personal benefit, he doesn't sign(an attitude of superiority).

I tend to think that what the ASG went through was mostly for the team's benefit. They would have done that for whatever player they thought was worthy of investment, IMO.

He being soft and calling his teamates soft is presumptuous. Punkish.

If it needs to be said, he is the guy who should be saying it among the players. I do think it should be said behind closed doors.

His actions are the most selfish of this team.

Refusing to resign right now is keeping his options open. It is selfish in a sense but it is also "market" in the sense that very few people in his position have resigned. I don't blame him for that very much, even though I'd like this to be a done deal.

His arrogance is the things of a spoiled punk. He really needs to shut up.

I am not that moved by this. If more happens, I may reconsider but I think more is being made out of this than what is there. I don't think your post was worthy of a negative rating, though.

[Plainview1981]

Actually middle of the pack but thanks for playing anyway.

I'd HATE to watch the other half of the league nightly. This team allowed the BOBCATS to have an offensive explosion. A team that was averaging 79PPG. Nearly every team has dropped 100 points on this team. Teams are shooting like 47% against this team if I'm not mistaken. This is no middle of the pack defense. Nearly anybody that steps on the floor get's whatever they want against this team.

Edited November 13, 2009 by Hotlanta1981

[MaceCase]

I'd HATE to watch the other half of the league nightly. This team allowed the BOBCATS to have an offensive explosion. A team that was averaging 79PPG. Nearly every team has dropped 100 points on this team. Teams are shooting like 47% against this team if I'm not mistaken. This is no middle of the pack defense. Nearly anybody that steps on the floor get's whatever they want against this team.

EXCEPT, we are 18th overall but thanks for playing again. Spin it all you want buddy, and I know you will, but we are not anywhere close to being the worst defensive team in the league while also happening to be a top 5 offense. What's your response going to be now? "I'd hate to watch how the other 26 teams score"?

[NineOhTheRino]

This teams doesn't make it out the 1st round without Joe.