What we really need

[DJlaysitup]

This is just an opinion and a wish...I doubt the ASG will do anything.

We have a PF who is really a 3/4. We have a center who is really a 4/5. In order to make that work we need a 3 that is a 3/4. Now granted, these guys are hard to come by...but if we had a 3 that was about 6'8" and had some real "gittyup" to him we could overcome the lapses we have inside as far as rebounding and defense. Currently we have two inside guys - Horford and Smoove. Marvin is likely a nice fella...but he is a ghost in the paint. If we could get a 3 that had reasonable shooting skills and who could also hold his own inside (an Artest-type player)...we would be in pretty good shape. As it is, we have a lot of solid guys, but giving away the 3 spot is killing us IMO...it's a crucial position for any good team.

Edited December 5, 2009 by DJlaysitup

[niremetal]

This is just an opinion and a wish...I doubt the ASG will do anything.

We have a PF who is really a 2/3. We have a center who is really a 1/2. In order to make that work we need a 3 that is a 3/2. Now granted, these guys are hard to come by...but if we had a 3 that was about 6'8" and had some real "gittyup" to him we could overcome the lapses we have inside as far as rebounding and defense. Currently we have two inside guys - Horford and Smoove. Marvin is likely a nice fella...but he is a ghost in the paint. If we could get a 3 that had reasonable shooting skills and who could also hold his own inside (an Artest-type player)...we would be in pretty good shape. As it is, we have a lot of solid guys, but giving away the 3 spot is killing us IMO...it's a crucial position for any good team.

Unless I'm reading you wrong, I think you've got the numbers mixed up. A center is a 5 and a PG is a 1.

[DJlaysitup]

Unless I'm reading you wrong, I think you've got the numbers mixed up. A center is a 5 and a PG is a 1.

Ooops....reverse all the numbers...I may have time to fix it Thanks....but the logic still stands. We need a 3 that can do some real work in the paint.

Edited December 5, 2009 by DJlaysitup

[MaceCase]

Gerald Wallace fits that bill perfectly but I'm more inclined to believe someone that can actually guard the 1/ 2 position would be better for us.

[DJlaysitup]

Gerald Wallace fits that bill perfectly but I'm more inclined to believe someone that can actually guard the 1/ 2 position would be better for us.

I've never been a bigtime anti-Marvin guy in the past...nor am I now. Do I think Sund screwed up giving him a new contract (yes). I'm trying to go past that though. Forget Marvin and think about what this team needs to compete against teams like ORL/Boston/CLE. We aren't gonna get a top level center...and replacing either Horford or Smoove would be folly. JJ is our (semi) all-star and Bibby saved Woody's nuts. It's not football...there are only five spots. We need to strengthen our weakest link. I mentioned Artest but that was only as a guidepost...there are lotsa guys out there that can fit the bill to a degree.

Edited December 5, 2009 by DJlaysitup

[niremetal]

I've never been a bigtime anti-Marvin guy in the past...nor am I now. Do I think Sund screwed up giving him a new contract (yes). I'm trying to go past that though. Forget Marvin and think about what this team needs to compete against teams like ORL/Boston/CLE. We aren't gonna get a top level center...and replacing either Horford or Smoove would be folly. JJ is our (semi) all-star and Bibby saved Woody's nuts. It's not football...there are only five spots. We need to strengthen our weakest link. I mentioned Artest but that was only as a guidepost...there are lotsa guys out there that can fit the bill to a degree.

My quibble is that Josh is not a 3/4. He is a 4. A slightly small 4, but a 4 nonetheless. The idea that he is, should be, or even can be a 3 (at least a decent one) has been abandoned by virtually everyone around here (not to mention by his coach and teammates). His skill set is almost entirely suited for the 4 position and his weaknesses are all most exposed at the 3 position. His most important assets - his running and jumping ability - are far less of a factor when he is playing a position manned by quicker and more athletic players. The areas of his game where he is relatively weak (perimeter D, outside shooting, lateral quickness) are more exposed at the 3. And of course, spending more time at the 3 means spending more time on the perimeter on D - which means that the league's best help defender and shotblocker will be further away from the basket more often.

The more Josh is placed close to the basket, the more he is a factor - at both ends. This doesn't at all change your argument about the 3 being our weak link, of course - if anything, it underscores it. I just get tired of seeing these occasional posts suggesting that Josh is somehow a combo forward.

Edited December 5, 2009 by niremetal

[DJlaysitup]

My quibble is that Josh is not a 3/4. He is a 4. A slightly small 4, but a 4 nonetheless. The idea that he is, should be, or even can be a 3 (at least a decent one) has been abandoned by virtually everyone around here (not to mention by his coach and teammates). His skill set is almost entirely suited for the 4 position and his weaknesses are all most exposed at the 3 position. His most important assets - his running and jumping ability - are far less of a factor when he is playing a position manned by quicker and more athletic players. The areas of his game where he is relatively weak (perimeter D, outside shooting, lateral quickness) are more exposed at the 3. And of course, spending more time at the 3 means spending more time on the perimeter on D - which means that the league's best help defender and shotblocker will be further away from the basket more often.

The more Josh is placed close to the basket, the more he is a factor - at both ends. This doesn't at all change your argument about the 3 being our weak link, of course - if anything, it underscores it. I just get tired of seeing these occasional posts suggesting that Josh is somehow a combo forward.

I didn't make my point nir as I should have. I agree that Smoove lacks the skillsets to be a prototype 3 - he is an excellent 4 albeit a bit physically shaped more like a 3. My point was to get a 3 that is sorta like a 4...another hybrid. Get a 3 with some ball skills who can also bump around in the paint. Mini-twin towers.

That would also take some pressure off of Horford.

Edited December 5, 2009 by DJlaysitup

[hawkman]

I didn't make my point nir as I should have. I agree that Smoove lacks the skillsets to be a prototype 3 - he is an excellent 4 albeit a bit physically shaped more like a 3. My point was to get a 3 that is sorta like a 4...another hybrid. Get a 3 with some ball skills who can also bump around in the paint. Mini-twin towers.

That would also take some pressure off of Horford.

How about Anthony Randolph from Golden State? He was a monster during the preseason but is only getting ~21mpg now(11ppg,6rpg, 1.2blks with those minutes). Maybe he could be a cheap get that can contribute right away. I was originally on the Stephen Jackson bandwagon but he would've been to expensive anyway. Besides, he's more of a SG/SF while Randolph at 6'10" could do more damage closer to the rim.

[sillent]

How about Anthony Randolph from Golden State? He was a monster during the preseason but is only getting ~21mpg now(11ppg,6rpg, 1.2blks with those minutes). Maybe he could be a cheap get that can contribute right away. I was originally on the Stephen Jackson bandwagon but he would've been to expensive anyway. Besides, he's more of a SG/SF while Randolph at 6'10" could do more damage closer to the rim.

Although I am a fan of Anthony Randolph I do feel like you all are sleeping on Marvin's contributions sure he has his faults at 23 but his benefits(although not as great as Smoove) exceed even a great double double machine like Horford. Mock my words(Again I think Randolph would be a great addition) but keeping Marvin Williams is going to pay good dividends. Their is not mch he can't do on the court once he learns to hone all of his skills.

[Iman]

I understand what the OP is saying but I practically think we already have what he wants. Our starting 2 and 3 are way bigger than average and very much help make up for our undersized 4 and 5. Marvin is a 3/4. Of course a stronger SF would help but Mello and Lebron are not available. I do think Marvin is very much to blame also. He's still young but I don't think he's gained any strength at all since he's been in the league. Maybe he was worried about messing up his speed or shooting stroke but he needs to forget that and bulk up. Also we do slide JJ to the 3 at times.

Our main weaknesses are that we don't have a true center, we don't have a superstar, and we don't run a real offense. Upgrading at any of our positions will be difficult until we find out whether we resign JJ. Bibby is for sure as good as Marvin but actually I think it would be easier to upgrade at PG than it would be to upgrade at SF.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Marvin had 15 rebounds last night ( a career high ). He also had 3 steals. Great effort game by him last night.

[f_town]

Marvin had 15 rebounds last night ( a career high ). He also had 3 steals. Great effort game by him last night.

agreed...i thought he had a big impact on the game last nite

Go Hawks!

[Johnnybravo4]

If we had Harrington instead of Marvin, we'd be unstoppable.

[jerrywest]

If we had Harrington instead of Marvin, we'd be unstoppable.

Diesel needs to change his pants.

[coachx]

Bibby is a 1

JJ is a 2/3

Marvin is a 3/4

Smoove is a staight up 4

Horford is a 4/5

Crawford is a 2/1

Evans is a 3/2

Smith is a 4

ZaZa is a 5

Teague is a 1

I thinks we are good.

The only area I would look to improve is to get a big defensive minded 7 footer like Brendan Heywood.

[coachx]

If we had Harrington instead of Marvin, we'd be unstoppable.

LOL !

More like Lebron, Pierce, Lewis, Turkelough, Butler, Anthony, Durant, Granger, Deng, Artest, etc. would be unstoppable when he was forced to guard them.

Harrington is a 6th man scorer off the bench for a winning team and nothing more. He is a inferior perimeter defender, at the SF position, to Marvin.

Edited December 7, 2009 by coachx

[MaceCase]

Can anyone remember the last time that Harrington spent considerable time at the SF position in a season?

Hint-Diaw was here.

[justin31]

harrington is one of the worst defenders in the league. can you imagine putting bibby, crawford, harrington, and pachulia on the floor at the same time???

ahhhhhhh

[Atlantaholic]

If we had Harrington instead of Marvin, we'd be unstoppable.

We would be the Toronto Raptors. Our defense is suspect enough.

Marvin needs to do a better job on the glass overall, I'm done expecting him to contribute consistently on offense but he needs to find a way to be consistant on the glass and on defense on a game to game basis. If he can do that and hit the occasional three he will be giving us what we need out of the 3 position.