Is Woody...a.....good coach?

[MVP23]

This is the 3rd time he's been on the front page of NBA.Com in the past week...maybe he only sucks to us, because we've seen him do some ridiculous stuff..but the rest of the league can't get enough of this guy..maybe its just us..anyway, here is the story..

Woodson in early class of Coach of the Year candidates

Posted Dec 23 2009 9:01AM

The early contender for coach of the year doesn't know if he'll be coaching next year.

Well, chances are pretty good that Mike Woodson will draw a check from somebody somewhere in 2010 and beyond. It just might not be in Atlanta. As good as the Hawks have been this season, showing tremendous growth and scoring some fairly impressive KO victories, Woodson is working without a safety net. Although he owns the longest coaching tenure with one team in the Eastern Conference at six years, this is the last year of his deal and nothing's on the table. Hawks general manager Rick Sund is taking a wait-and-see approach before deciding if Woodson is worth an extension.

Neither is willing to discus Woodson's status, at least not publicly. You ask Woodson, you get "I'd rather not talk about my situation," but clearly, not only does Woodson want to stay in Atlanta, he thinks he has deserved the right to stay.

One of his pals in the coaching biz said: "What else does he have to prove?"

It does seem like a strange situation for Woodson, who heads our list of best coaching performances so far in 2009-10. Usually, teams avoid any situation where a coach is perceived to be a lame duck, although in Woodson's case, that's a big stretch. His job is hardly in jeopardy. And if nothing else, he's setting himself for a big financial score this summer. As coaching free agents go, he could be the LeBron James of the market, especially if the Hawks reach the NBA Finals, which isn't a silly notion.

It's been a long, strange trip for Woodson ever since he left the Larry Brown nest and joined the Hawks. He won 13 games his first season, then 26, then 30. By season four, the Hawks GM at the time, Billy Knight, wanted to fire Woodson. Knight ended up getting fired himself by the new ownership group. Sund took over and gave Woodson a two-year deal, not a full vote of confidence, but not a dismissal, either.

Well, since then, Woodson won 47 games and then a round in the playoffs with an injured team. The young Hawks have obviously grown and matured on his watch. And they're among the top 5 or 6 teams in basketball, with impressive wins against the Celtics, Jazz, Mavericks and Blazers. Woodson must be doing something right.

What's the reason to delay an extension? Well, there's the d*ck Jauron lesson. The Buffalo Bills were so smitten by his 5-1 start last season they gave him a 3-year extension on the spot. Then the Bills finished out 2-8. Because of the contract, they were stuck with a coach they eventually fired this season when the losing continued. Maybe some teams can simply write off the financial headaches of letting coaches go with years and millions of dollars left on their contract, but not the Hawks.

Besides, the Hawks aren't under any pressure to act right this minute. Conducting negotiations with a coach during the season could turn into a distraction. Evidently the Hawks want to see what Woodson's team does in the spring before they make a long-term commitment. And suppose Woodson takes another job, you ask? Well, there'd be no shortage of coaches willing to take over a good, young Atlanta team. So the Hawks own the leverage here.

Right now anyway, Woodson and the Hawks are good for one another and most likely they'll realize it next summer when his contract is up. A coach of the year award would only strengthen the relationship and seal the deal.

Edited December 23, 2009 by MVP23

[gsuteke]

I would laugh my tail off at the Spirit if Woodrow isn't extended and then another team makes Woody an offer - one that he accepts out of general principal since the Hawks never offered him an extension.

LOL - this is the Hawks we're talking about here people. Everything is too good right now to be true

[jy23]

"The lebron James of fa coaches",that's hilarious

[coachx]

1. Top 4 team without a top 17 - 20 individual talent

2. Very young team that got better ever year

3. Road wins get better every year

4. Lowest turnover per game in the entire leage (with a young roster and without a top 20 PG who controls the ball)

5. Team the out hustles the opponent consistently showing they are motivated to compete night in and night out

6. Not afraid to call out Josh Smith when needed

7. 4th best offense in the NBA

Ya, I'd say he is a good coach.

We may not agree with the amount of iso's he calls but any fan base will find things to whine about.

[buckeye242424]

1. Top 4 team without a top 17 - 20 individual talent

2. Very young team that got better ever year

3. Road wins get better every year

4. Lowest turnover per game in the entire leage (with a young roster and without a top 20 PG who controls the ball)

5. Team the out hustles the opponent consistently showing they are motivated to compete night in and night out

6. Not afraid to call out Josh Smith when needed

7. 4th best offense in the NBA

Ya, I'd say he is a good coach.

We may not agree with the amount of iso's he calls but any fan base will find things to whine about.

He's a good coach. You don't get to where he is without being a good coach. That's what has been so frustrating to me is no offense....the iso's. But, with the winning and improvement, how can you fault the guy? He's obviously relying on guys that can score on their own, and on some nights it's frustrating/embarrasssing....but those nights have been few and far between this year. He's allowing our defense and transition to be the star of the show...key being running and letting athleticism win out. It bugs me watching all the iso's, but he knows better than we do what his team has. It's working. I'm just glad we are we're we are.

[JackB1]

Most of the NBA is assuming our team's improvement is due to our coach. I have seem Woodson enough to know that he is not a great coach, but he knows how to get out of the way and

let the player's do their thing most of the time. I would say that Woodson being here year after year has given the team a sense of continuity and stability, which is good. I think when Bibby

joined us, having his veteran leadership out there, let Woody concentrate mostly on defense and subbing and minutes.

At this point I think we are better off with Woody than without him, but winning makes coaches seem better than they actually are. I am sure if we lost 10 in a row, everyone would be calling for his head.

So yes, I think Woody is a decent coach and he has had a positive effect on this team. The players seem to like him and they know what to expect from him. Yes, his motivational speeches are snoozers

and his post game interviews are more boring than waiting for your clothes to dry, but he does seem to have a lot of positive qualities that the players respond to. Maybe they are "playing for him" to stay this

season? Marvin or Smoove mentioned in an interview that they were playing "for Joe & coach", so maybe Sund knows what he's doing? :)

[tbhawksfan]

Most of the NBA is assuming our team's improvement is due to our coach. I have seem Woodson enough to know that he is not a great coach, but he knows how to get out of the way and

let the player's do their thing most of the time. I would say that Woodson being here year after year has given the team a sense of continuity and stability, which is good. I think when Bibby

joined us, having his veteran leadership out there, let Woody concentrate mostly on defense and subbing and minutes.

At this point I think we are better off with Woody than without him, but winning makes coaches seem better than they actually are. I am sure if we lost 10 in a row, everyone would be calling for his head.

So yes, I think Woody is a decent coach and he has had a positive effect on this team. The players seem to like him and they know what to expect from him. Yes, his motivational speeches are snoozers

and his post game interviews are more boring than waiting for your clothes to dry, but he does seem to have a lot of positive qualities that the players respond to. Maybe they are "playing for him" to stay this

season? Marvin or Smoove mentioned in an interview that they were playing "for Joe & coach", so maybe Sund knows what he's doing? :)

Good reply. Gotta say he's a good coach. Proof is in the puddin. A top coach, no. Can he win COY? Yes, if the Hawks go to the finals are even almost make it, he could get the nod. I expect to see him return with an extension.

[TheTruth]

I have warmed up to the idea that he is a decent coach. I would give him a B- as an overall coach. At this point, barring some epic fail collapse, we are better off with him than without him. With that being said, if him and the Hawks team continue to do what they are doing, then he will be rewarded with an extension unless Sund is a complete idiot.

Jack said it best, winning will cover up a lot of things, and may make you look better than you are, but no one can deny how the Hawks are playing this year: Great offense, good bench play, tenacious defense, league-low turnover rate, more running, and improved play from our bigs.

It sure is good to be 20-7 right now. Now let's crush those Nuggets!

Edited December 23, 2009 by TheTruth

[RedDawg#8]

i think that the team and Woody both have grown during these years. ppl continuosly say that our record has gotten better each year but I dont give woody all the credit for that. when you consistently add talent to the roster, you better be improving no matter who the coach is. I think Woody is average and there arent many coaches AVAILABLE who could do much better than him. I like that Sund did not extend him yet because Woody needs to prove that he can coach at an elite level. This is the most talented roster we have had in a generation and if we underachieved it would be on the coach. Nobody here would be happy if we gave Woodson a new contract but the team played the same as last season. Its obvious both woody and the team are motivated and that is perfect. If we can keep up this high level of play through the all-star break then I think he should/will get an extension so that we can prepare to head into the playoffs without distraction. in the end, i have more faith in Sunds GM skills rite now than Woodsons coaching, because in their time with the Hawks, Sund has overachieved while Woodson has just been average.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Funny how when the national media starts doing in-depth interviews on Woody and the team, that the fan base finally comes around. Just a mere 3 weeks ago, people were questioning whether the Boston blog article was legit.

The fact of the matter is that Woody has ALWAYS been at least an average coach. But now, he's proving that he can coach up a little talent as well.

But in the past, people always nit-picked when it comes to Woody, like other coaches around the NBA didn't do the same thing or have the same coaching traits.

Like coachx points out, it's not like we have a top 10 player in the league on this team, nor 2 top 20 players, like most of the contending teams do. So it has to be Woody's system and the coaching he does with individual players, that has enabled us to get to this level.

He coaches the right things to them, while trying to keep them relaxed at the same time. Give Sund credit too, but it was Woody who had to seemlessly merge these guys into the lineup to help us. The job he's doing with Crawford is nothing short of remarkable. 1/3 of the season is gone, and he's more than proven that he can coach a talented team.

LOL @ B- . . . . please. I guess the only way he could get an A, would be to have us at 24 - 3 I guess?

Great job Woody. Keep it up.

[TheTruth]

No Northcyde, a better offensive system, better utilization of his bench (he just NOW started doing that this season), better disciplining (took him a long time to reign J Smith in--and it was him, not Woodson, who said he would stop shooting threes)...I could go on and on.

That's why he gets a B- from me. If we were 15-12, you would still probably give him an A despite whatever jive you want to state in a reply. You have been a staunch Woody backer forever and always had a ready-made excuse for him. I don't make make excuses for people--Woodson included.

If he keeps his coaching style up from THIS year, then my new grade will reflect that. Obvious Sund believes something similar or he would have already given Woodson a new contract by now. Let's see how this season plays out before too much azz kissing begins.

[Buzzard]

Funny how when the national media starts doing in-depth interviews on Woody and the team, that the fan base finally comes around. Just a mere 3 weeks ago, people were questioning whether the Boston blog article was legit.

The fact of the matter is that Woody has ALWAYS been at least an average coach. But now, he's proving that he can coach up a little talent as well.

But in the past, people always nit-picked when it comes to Woody, like other coaches around the NBA didn't do the same thing or have the same coaching traits.

Like coachx points out, it's not like we have a top 10 player in the league on this team, nor 2 top 20 players, like most of the contending teams do. So it has to be Woody's system and the coaching he does with individual players, that has enabled us to get to this level.

He coaches the right things to them, while trying to keep them relaxed at the same time. Give Sund credit too, but it was Woody who had to seemlessly merge these guys into the lineup to help us. The job he's doing with Crawford is nothing short of remarkable. 1/3 of the season is gone, and he's more than proven that he can coach a talented team.

LOL @ B- . . . . please. I guess the only way he could get an A, would be to have us at 24 - 3 I guess?

Great job Woody. Keep it up.

There's only 30 teams in the NBA. Before you go giving all the credit to Woody for coaching up lesser talent, maybe you should find out exactly how many teams in the weaker east can boast of two top twenty players. I did a sort by conference on pts, rbs, and ast and what you will find is that Boston and our beloved Hawks are the only current contenders with three players in the top thirty.

The criteria I used at NBA.COM is pts, rbs, and ast leaders for the eastern conference. We have four players in the top fifty, three in the top thirty, and just barely miss having two in the top twenty (JJ is ranked 8th and Smoove is 21st). That is the reason JJ(8), Smoove(21), and Horf(28) are being mentioned as all-stars in the east and Crawford (ranked 45) is being mentioned as sixth man of the year.

Here is the sort criteria and link:

http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/PRA.jsp?league=00&conf=EAST&position=0&splitType=9splitScope=GAME&qualified=N&yearsExp=-1&splitDD=All%20Teams

So lets be fair, no more crap about Woody doing a great job with less talent. You know and I know that is just Woody hype BS.

Edited December 24, 2009 by Buzzard

[Diesel]

Funny how when the national media starts doing in-depth interviews on Woody and the team, that the fan base finally comes around. Just a mere 3 weeks ago, people were questioning whether the Boston blog article was legit.

The fact of the matter is that Woody has ALWAYS been at least an average coach. But now, he's proving that he can coach up a little talent as well.

But in the past, people always nit-picked when it comes to Woody, like other coaches around the NBA didn't do the same thing or have the same coaching traits.

Like coachx points out, it's not like we have a top 10 player in the league on this team, nor 2 top 20 players, like most of the contending teams do. So it has to be Woody's system and the coaching he does with individual players, that has enabled us to get to this level.

He coaches the right things to them, while trying to keep them relaxed at the same time. Give Sund credit too, but it was Woody who had to seemlessly merge these guys into the lineup to help us. The job he's doing with Crawford is nothing short of remarkable. 1/3 of the season is gone, and he's more than proven that he can coach a talented team.

LOL @ B- . . . . please. I guess the only way he could get an A, would be to have us at 24 - 3 I guess?

Great job Woody. Keep it up.

I have always said that it's hard to separate what Woody has done with the situation that Woody was in. He took over a rebuilding team. He was given young pieces that IMO wasn't a complete fit. We're getting closer to complete and we're winning. We could have somebody like Vinny Del Negro who can allow his team to lose a 33 point lead. We could have somebody like Skiles who seems to win whereever he goes. However, we have Woody. I guess if we judged him over the last 2 years, he is a good coach. Moreover, without what I feel is a real Center, we're doing good.

[Duff_Man]

I hate to be negative, but last night he was awful. At one point he took out the super-hot Jamal and put in the Arctic Marvin for about 7 minutes when we were creeping back in under single digits. Also, when it was apparent we needed maximum offense, he kept trying to put in defense with Mo and Zaza. I was scratching my head a lot last night with the substitutions.

[Endy9]

I think he's one of the best defensive coaches in the game. Just wish he could find a Tex Winter type to help him run the offense.

[RedDawg#8]

I think he's one of the best defensive coaches in the game. Just wish he could find a Tex Winter type to help him run the offense.

You know, I can really agree with that statement, Woody is an awesome defensive coach, I mean he has shown a lot of creativity when it comes to our defense, always trying to maximize our strengths, he didnt start the whole switchin thing until 07-8 i think based off out personnel, He found a akward yet slightly effective way to hide Bibby on defense last year (is it just me or is Bibby actually playing better Defense this year)

The thing is, as creative as he is on the defensive end, he is equally mundane on the offensive end. The reason our offense is so good is because the players have improved the little things like offensive rebounding, passing and taking better shots, Bibby having more chemistry on pick and rolls with Smooth and Al. I see improvement from Woodson but I still see that he has a comfort zone that is tough for him to break and I bet other coaches notice it too.

Woody is doing a good job overall, but is it enough to take us to the top? thats what Sund is trying to figure out before we lock up long term money in Woodson.

Edited December 24, 2009 by RedDawg#8

[spotatl]

If I were a coach I'd rather have the rosters of Boston, Cleveland, and Orlando over the Roster of the Hawks. I think all 3 of those teams SHOULD be better given equal coaching.

The Hawks have just 1 guy who is a top 5 player at their position. They have guys who are below average starters at 2 of the positions. I think Woodson has done a remarkable job this season and I hope he gets rewarded for it. I sort of wish he would to go a different team just because I think thats the only way people here would appreciate the things he does well.

[Buzzard]

If I were a coach I'd rather have the rosters of Boston, Cleveland, and Orlando over the Roster of the Hawks. I think all 3 of those teams SHOULD be better given equal coaching.

The Hawks have just 1 guy who is a top 5 player at their position. They have guys who are below average starters at 2 of the positions. I think Woodson has done a remarkable job this season and I hope he gets rewarded for it. I sort of wish he would to go a different team just because I think thats the only way people here would appreciate the things he does well.

I agree 100% here and will add:

I would take Howard or Lebron by themselves over our whole roster and just start fresh with draft picks, supplimental picks, and free agents.

I would take Bostons roster for the short term over ours for 2 to 3 years. After that give me ours.

This does not mean we can't compete with or even beat them; it just means franchise players do not grow on trees as niremetal said. Lebron, Howard, Garnet are history makers; I will take my chances with one history maker as a GM over five JJ's, Smoove's, or Horfs any day of the week.

Edited December 25, 2009 by Buzzard

[BusBoyIsBack]

As fans sometimes we focus too much on the negatives of Woodson particularly of his inability to groom young players particularly at PG (or at least so far). And his unimaginative and predictable playcalling down the stretch of tight games with those isolation plays.

But you have to give the man credit for stressing his biggest forte and that is teaching defensive basketball. He's been drilling this in the heads of these young players for years and slowly but surely our defense has improved.

Also you have to love how he's handled Josh Smith. Josh Smith was one of the most hard headed players in the league, if not THE hardest head, and Woody mostly through benching him after boneheaded plays, has helped Josh Smith mature.

[spotatl]

I don't get how anyone can blame Woodson for not being able to get more production out of Acie Law and Salim Stoudamire. Acie had his 4th year team option declined after being traded and Salim is out of the league. Those were bad draftpicks- not a bad job from Woodson. I think its to Woodson's credit that he recognized the limitations of those players LONG before people here did and didn't waste as many minutes on them as people here would have wanted. If the GM makes a poor pick what you WANT is for the coach to recognize that early.