Why Nique is so negative towards Woody and Joe?

[NineOhTheRino]

Woody first:

Yesterday he openly criticized Woody for taking Jamal out the game. At least 3 times (Nique is bad about repeating himself) he said "I don't know why you would take Jamal out at this point?" At the time I agreed with Nique but I did wonder about his motive.

During the Orlando game he was killing Woody's defensive plan on Howard. Keep in mind that Woody leaked his plan to AJC before the game. First time Howard scored Nique said "You can't do that! You can't double him too early!" Nique knew Woody's plan was to double Howard early and often. Just seems like he's working really hard to undercut Woody publicly.

Joe:

Every time (not just yesterday...every game) Joe backs a defender down and misses the shot Nique will follow with "Right now the Hawks gotta have more ball movement." Yet yesterday Jamal goes 1-on-1 with 3 tricky dribbles. Ball through his legs, roll it from arm to arm, then pop locked and posed for the crowd only to create a turnover and Nique did not say a word.

Agenda?

Something is going on behind the scenes. Nique knows everything that goes on with this team. Judging from the negatively that he's been putting out on Joe and Woody I'm about 95% sure that neither guy will be with the Hawks next year.

Edited March 29, 2010 by NineOhTheRino

[dhawk]

I noticed that too, especially with Joe and Jamal. Joe goes one-on-one, "its no ball movement", Jamal goes one-on-one its either you hear crickets or " that was a great play". Keep in mind Jamal is suppose to be instant offense, as a 6-man, we need his points and energy off the bench, but if he's going to play starter minutes (around 30 per game) then he has to incorporate himself in the offense too, especially if he's playing wtih the starters. It actually helps the other 2nd team players when they get a chance to touch the ball sometimes as well.

[NineOhTheRino]

I noticed that too, especially with Joe and Jamal. Joe goes one-on-one, "its no ball movement", Jamal goes one-on-one its either you hear crickets or " that was a great play". Keep in mind Jamal is suppose to be instant offense, as a 6-man, we need his points and energy off the bench, but if he's going to play starter minutes (around 30 per game) then he has to incorporate himself in the offense too, especially if he's playing wtih the starters. It actually helps the other 2nd team players when they get a chance to touch the ball sometimes as well.

I honestly think Nique has aspirations to be the head coach of a Hawks team that's built around Crawford, Horford and Smoove. I'll take Horford and Smoove but I want no part of Nique and Crawford.

[swolehawk2]

I think the difference is; Joe takes tto damn much time in his Isos. When Craw goes one/one it is usually a quick move or jumpshot.

Joe pounds and pounds to the clock is down and we are sometimes left with bad shots or turnovers.

Edited March 29, 2010 by swolehawk2

[hawkman]

I think the difference is; Joe takes tto damn much time in his Isos. When Craw goes one/one it is usually a quick move or jumpshot.

Joe pounds and pounds to the clock is down and we are sometimes left with bad shots or turnovers.

Exactly, JJ needs to make a quick decisive move with the ball rather than pounding it. He tends to react to the defense rather than forcing the defense to react to him. I doubt Nique has an agenda. He's just stating the obvious. Oh, and he was right about not doubling Howard too early. He's not an offensive threat outside of the paint. There's no need to pull a guy off a three point shooter to double Howard when he's in no position to score the ball.

[NineOhTheRino]

Exactly, JJ needs to make a quick decisive move with the ball rather than pounding it. He tends to react to the defense rather than forcing the defense to react to him. I doubt Nique has an agenda. He's just stating the obvious. Oh, and he was right about not doubling Howard too early. He's not an offensive threat outside of the paint. There's no need to pull a guy off a three point shooter to double Howard when he's in no position to score the ball.

Woody's thought was to double early to prevent him from getting into the paint. Force Howard into taking a more difficult shot.

but I understand your point of why double since Howard is not likely to take a shot away from the basket anyway.

Edited March 29, 2010 by NineOhTheRino

[Crank]

I noticed that too, especially with Joe and Jamal. Joe goes one-on-one, "its no ball movement", Jamal goes one-on-one its either you hear crickets or " that was a great play". Keep in mind Jamal is suppose to be instant offense, as a 6-man, we need his points and energy off the bench, but if he's going to play starter minutes (around 30 per game) then he has to incorporate himself in the offense too, especially if he's playing wtih the starters. It actually helps the other 2nd team players when they get a chance to touch the ball sometimes as well.

I think people get there one on one confused .

How often do you see jamal clear out the the side ?

Jamal uses the screen so he usually play a two man game with one of the bigs . Like yesterday with Al the quick screen and hes either in the lane or finds the big in the open spot for an easy jumper or lay in ..He also kept his dribbled into the lane and found Smoove several times for layups as well.

This team needs Jamal to have the ball and control of the offense for at least 4-5 minutes every game and by that I mean handle the rock where he can push it and look for early offense because no one else on this team does that and we need to play at that speed because we are not a halfcourt team.

Jamals incorporation into the offense has been to go and take Marvins spot in the corner while Joe and now Smoove or Al try and go one one on on the block . The iso ofense is expanding and the running game is shrinking. Im quite sure Nique can see this and its not about what Joe does being bad .

[niremetal]

I think the difference is; Joe takes tto damn much time in his Isos. When Craw goes one/one it is usually a quick move or jumpshot.

Joe pounds and pounds to the clock is down and we are sometimes left with bad shots or turnovers.

I guess that explains why JJ shoots a higher percentage (.456 to .450 this year, .443 to .409 career) and has a better assist-to-TO ratio (2.40 to 1.72 this year, 2.03 to 1.94 career) than Crawford, right?

I love how some people bash JJ dribbling around for 15 seconds to try and get an open look (which he often does) but don't seem to have any problem with Jamal taking a contested jumper with 17 seconds on the clock or getting his pocket picked after doing a Rafer Alston impression. I don't think JJ's approach is good either (which is why I don't like how we run him on the ball so much), but their career and season stats make it pretty tough to argue that Crawford's approach is more efficient.

Edited March 29, 2010 by niremetal

[Crank]

I guess that explains why JJ shoots a higher percentage (.456 to .450 this year, .443 to .409 career) and has a better assist-to-TO ratio (2.40 to 1.72 this year, 2.03 to 1.94 career) than Crawford, right?

I love how some people bash JJ dribbling around for 15 seconds to try and get an open look (which he often does) but don't seem to have any problem with Jamal taking a contested jumper with 17 seconds on the clock or getting his pocket picked after doing a Rafer Alston impression. I don't think JJ's approach is good either (which is why I don't like how we run him on the ball so much), but their career and season stats make it pretty tough to argue that Crawford's approach is more efficient.

Its about pace again I dont get why thats so hard to understand .

Jamals game speeds up the tempo to a point where everyone can flourish while Joe slows it down to where only he can . What Crawford did previous is irrelevant because this is the only year theyve both played in the same system . I dont think anyone is arguing that there is no place for Joes game to the contrary I think everyone knows we need it but there is a time and place for it .

Its amazing the way you came to a stat quoting defense because someone said JJ takes a long time to make his move while Crawford makes his move faster even though you agreed .

[MaceCase]

Do not forget that Nique is part of management so of course he has an agenda. By him having the pulpit to speak to the viewing public on a constant basis he can help depreciate the value of our two free agents if not outright turn the public against them.

If Joe scores 30 and Nique praises him for carrying the team and he happens to leave in the summer, well people would complain about how we let the centerpiece of our team leave.

If Joe scores 30 and Nique criticizes every shot attempt along the way while suggesting we wouldn't of needed Joe's 30 if the ball was moved around, well the fans start to believe that we are actually better off without JJ.

Same goes for Woody, Nique is simply easing the public relations blow management would take for letting two pivotal cogs to our success leave. If they both resign? Well I'd expect Nique to be slobbering all over them next season while criticizing Al for not making the jump to 20-10 numbers in his 4th and contract year.

[Wretch]

I don't know if he's favoring one guy's ISO's over another, but one of the things that Nique does actually call right...is the lack of ball movement at times. There are simply times where you have to move the ball. There are times when we need to go somewhere other than Joe - feed the big man, attack the inside and go quick, etc. Sometimes when I'm watching the game, I'm sitting there saying...move the ball...move the ball...move the ball. And it's either JJ dribbling crazily, or Craw taking a ridiculous shot. Like yesterday when Granger? blocked Craw on the fast break. We inbound with forever on the clock and Craw launches an off-balance hail-Mary with no ball movement. Nique called it - terrible shot, but when I'm watching he usually does call it fairly. He'll always call it a bad/quick shot or he'll say we need to move the ball.

TBH, it's not really that hard to see either. Anyone with an ounce of basketball sense can see when moving the ball is going to benefit us. I'd be silly if I sat here and said Nique with all his NBA experience can't.

[niremetal]

Its amazing the way you came to a stat quoting defense because someone said JJ takes a long time to make his move while Crawford makes his move faster even though you agreed .

I don't argue with the notion that Crawford pushes the pace more. What I argue is that Crawford pushing the pace usually means Crawford taking a bad shot, which is why Crawford has one of the worst career FG% among all active players in the entire NBA. Dude's career FG% is below .410. What irked me is that the poster I quoted stated that JJ's approach leads to bad shots and turnovers...while casting Crawford's approach in a more positive light. In light of what they have actually done during their careers, Crawford takes worse shots and is at least slightly more turnover-prone than JJ (although I won't argue that JJ doesn't need to improve in those regards too). But he singled out JJ for the bad shots and turnovers. Isn't there something wrong with that picture?

Edited March 29, 2010 by niremetal

[00Blink]

I think the difference is; Joe takes tto damn much time in his Isos. When Craw goes one/one it is usually a quick move or jumpshot.

Joe pounds and pounds to the clock is down and we are sometimes left with bad shots or turnovers.

^^^THIS^^^

[AHawks89]

Nique is right yall. He does state the obvious. I always shake my head - agreeing to him when he calls out plays. I don't see why people hate or disagree with Nique. I would love Nique to be our coach. He does not bash JJ, at least the way you're making it out to be. He's telling the truth about JJ. He talks more good, than bad about JJ. And who ever posted about Jamal, is right. Jamal don't hold the ball as long. He will do some moves and take his shot. He's a 6th man, not a starter. You can't keep criticizing Jamal for taking crazy shots or whatever. He's on the team for a reason, to score. He can score just about anyway & any where. I agree to what Nique says about Woody and JJ. I guess i'm the only one.

Personally, I think Nique would be a great coach in Atlanta.

[Diesel]

Because Nique wants to be Head Coach.

[NineOhTheRino]

Because Nique wants to be Head Coach.

i think you're right.

[Diesel]

i think you're right.

Nino.. I got one for your list.

"It takes two by Rob Base and EZ ROCK is the greatest one hit wonder song of all time!"

[Blunt91]

So I guess some of you are saying Nique is a "Do Boy" for Micheal Gearon & Rick Sund. LOL

[JTB]

I guess that explains why JJ shoots a higher percentage (.456 to .450 this year, .443 to .409 career) and has a better assist-to-TO ratio (2.40 to 1.72 this year, 2.03 to 1.94 career) than Crawford, right?

I love how some people bash JJ dribbling around for 15 seconds to try and get an open look (which he often does) but don't seem to have any problem with Jamal taking a contested jumper with 17 seconds on the clock or getting his pocket picked after doing a Rafer Alston impression. I don't think JJ's approach is good either (which is why I don't like how we run him on the ball so much), but their career and season stats make it pretty tough to argue that Crawford's approach is more efficient.

exactly couldn't have said it any better bruh!

[spotatl]

I do think that the Hawks announcers have become pretty convinced that Joe isn't coming back. I heard Steve Holman on the radio say he thought there was only a 10% chance of Joe being with the team next season.

Edited March 29, 2010 by spotatl