Why Nique is so negative towards Woody and Joe?

[JTB]

Because Nique wants to be Head Coach.

uhhhhh is this a good or bad thing?............I mean can the man coach? I sure hope so cause I would hate to see this team go back to being sorry if he tries to coach our team next year over woody.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Woody first:

Yesterday he openly criticized Woody for taking Jamal out the game. At least 3 times (Nique is bad about repeating himself) he said "I don't know why you would take Jamal out at this point?" At the time I agreed with Nique but I did wonder about his motive.

During the Orlando game he was killing Woody's defensive plan on Howard. Keep in mind that Woody leaked his plan to AJC before the game. First time Howard scored Nique said "You can't do that! You can't double him too early!" Nique knew Woody's plan was to double Howard early and often. Just seems like he's working really hard to undercut Woody publicly.

Joe:

Every time (not just yesterday...every game) Joe backs a defender down and misses the shot Nique will follow with "Right now the Hawks gotta have more ball movement." Yet yesterday Jamal goes 1-on-1 with 3 tricky dribbles. Ball through his legs, roll it from arm to arm, then pop locked and posed for the crowd only to create a turnover and Nique did not say a word.

Agenda?

Something is going on behind the scenes. Nique knows everything that goes on with this team. Judging from the negatively that he's been putting out on Joe and Woody I'm about 95% sure that neither guy will be with the Hawks next year.

It's obvious isn't it?

The JJ / Woody negativity ( despite this being on pace to be the 4th most successful team in Atlanta Hawk regular season history ), is bordering on insanity. And it's not just from the fans. It's from the broadcast group and the AJC as well.

The ish is OBVIOUS.

I love Nique . . . but Nique in his final year as a Hawk played MUCH WORSE ball than JJ did. Dude was much more erratic than JJ ever was. And he was branded "selfish" by his own coach. I know Nique loves Jamal like a godson, and Jamal can do no wrong in his eyes . . . but sometimes, he simply needs to shut his mouth when it comes to our captain. In this league, you have to let star players do their thing, because more times than not, they're going to make positive plays for you. That's what Nique expected when he was a star player in this league.

Criticizing Woody and JJ for every single little thing they do, is straight up crap in my opinion. Objective commentating is one thing. Constructive criticism is one thing. Hyper criticism bordering on obsession is another.

I haven't even read the other responses yet, just the initial post. So it will be interesting to see how the rest of Hawksquawk views this.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I think the difference is; Joe takes tto damn much time in his Isos. When Craw goes one/one it is usually a quick move or jumpshot.

Joe pounds and pounds to the clock is down and we are sometimes left with bad shots or turnovers.

Swole . . . a bad shot is a bad shot, whether you take 20 seconds to shoot the ball . . or 2 seconds to shoot the ball. And if JJ takes 20 seconds to set up his man, and then SCORES, it's a GOOD PLAY, despite the lack of ball movement.

[hawkman]

Wow some of you guys are reading waaaaaay to much into this. Nique is a commentator and is just stating his opinion. What's with all of the conspiracy theories?

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Its about pace again I dont get why thats so hard to understand .

Jamals game speeds up the tempo to a point where everyone can flourish while Joe slows it down to where only he can . What Crawford did previous is irrelevant because this is the only year theyve both played in the same system . I dont think anyone is arguing that there is no place for Joes game to the contrary I think everyone knows we need it but there is a time and place for it .

Its amazing the way you came to a stat quoting defense because someone said JJ takes a long time to make his move while Crawford makes his move faster even though you agreed .

And rushed missed shots, give the other team the ball back early, enabling them to score quicker.

I hate to tell you guys this, ( and I'm still reading this thread and responding as I go ), but some of you may want to look at how some of these teams play according to pace.

Top 10 teams, according to pace: Playoff teams in BOLD RED

1) Golden St - 100.4

2) Indiana - 97.2

3) Minnesota - 96.2

4) Phoenix - 95.7

5) Denver - 94.9

6) Sacramento - 94.1

7) New York - 94.0

8) Houston - 93.8

9) Memphis - 93.4

10) Chicago - 93.3

See a pattern?

Bottom 10 teams, according to pace. ( Playoff teams in BOLD RED )

30) Portland - 87.6

29) Detroit - 88.9

28) Miami - 90.0

27) Atlanta - 90.4

26) Charlotte - 90.5

25) Cleveland - 90.1

T24) San Antonio - 91.4

T24) New Jersey - 91.4

22) Philadelphia - 91.5

21) Boston - 91.7

See a pattern again?

The league average for team pace is 92.8 Only 6 of the 16 eligible playoff teams at this moment play at or above the league average.

Playing fast does not = wins.

The Hawks should play fast when they have the numbers or "nimbers", when they grab defensive rebounds. Coming down and taking quick shots does not help this offense, no matter who is taking it. Especially if those shots aren't open shots.

I've proven multiple times that JJ is one of the top ISO players in this league. So even when he dribbles for 20 seconds, you may end up with a better result than trying to take quick shots.

Ball movement is great, if you can set up people for easy shots. But just going fast just to be doing it, is not the formula for success in this league. People want to play like Golden State. But playing like Golden State on a nightly basis, would get us killed.

Edited March 29, 2010 by northcyde

[Crank]

And rushed missed shots, give the other team the ball back early, enabling them to score quicker.

I hate to tell you guys this, ( and I'm still reading this thread and responding as I go ), but some of you may want to look at how some of these teams play according to pace.

Top 10 teams, according to pace: Playoff teams in BOLD RED

1) Golden St - 100.4

2) Indiana - 97.2

3) Minnesota - 96.2

4) Phoenix - 95.7

5) Denver - 94.9

6) Sacramento - 94.1

7) New York - 94.0

8) Houston - 93.8

9) Memphis - 93.4

10) Chicago - 93.3

See a pattern?

Bottom 10 teams, according to pace. ( Playoff teams in BOLD RED )

30) Portland - 87.6

29) Detroit - 88.9

28) Miami - 90.0

27) Atlanta - 90.4

26) Charlotte - 90.5

25) Cleveland - 90.1

T24) San Antonio - 91.4

T24) New Jersey - 91.4

22) Philadelphia - 91.5

21) Boston - 91.7

See a pattern again?

The league average for team pace is 92.8 Only 6 of the 16 eligible playoff teams at this moment play at or above the league average.

Playing fast does not = wins.

The Hawks should play fast when they have the numbers or "nimbers", when they grab defensive rebounds. Coming down and taking quick shots does not help this offense, no matter who is taking it. Especially if those shots aren't open shots.

I've proven multiple times that JJ is one of the top ISO players in this league. So even when he dribbles for 20 seconds, you may end up with a better result than trying to take quick shots.

Ball movement is great, if you can set up people for easy shots. But just going fast just to be doing it, is not the formula for success in this league. People want to play like Golden State. But playing like Golden State on a nightly basis, would get us killed.

I dont care what the rest of the league is doing as there is no other team in the league similar to us and I didnt say I wanted to lead the league in Pace . I said we play better at a faster pace and the missed shots are fine because the quickening of the pace creates energy something that we dont get from the starting 5 .

If you think that somehow we can play at a Bostons ,Clevland or SA's pace and win in the playoff you are kidding yourself . I would rather us be in the 15-20 range with the Mavs ,Bucks,Magic . We need to try and generate more easy baskets and considering we have the smallest center out of every team I have mentioned it should be our goal to get there .

We dont get as many fta as the other teams who are the bottom of pace with us either so our success comes down to shooting well or losing in a halfcourt setting when the focus should be shooting well but trying to stay out of the Halfcourt as much as possible . Its the reason the zone works so well against us .

Now a quicker pace doesnt mean a ton of quick jumpshots it means attacking before the defense has a chance to setup . Whether that be a quick flash by AL to the post a quick high screen and roll or just simply advancing the ball ahaead with the pace qand fining a open shooter . We shoot the ball the ball too well to settle for halfcourt isolations the entire game .

[Crank]

I don't argue with the notion that Crawford pushes the pace more. What I argue is that Crawford pushing the pace usually means Crawford taking a bad shot, which is why Crawford has one of the worst career FG% among all active players in the entire NBA. Dude's career FG% is below .410. What irked me is that the poster I quoted stated that JJ's approach leads to bad shots and turnovers...while casting Crawford's approach in a more positive light. In light of what they have actually done during their careers, Crawford takes worse shots and is at least slightly more turnover-prone than JJ (although I won't argue that JJ doesn't need to improve in those regards too). But he singled out JJ for the bad shots and turnovers. Isn't there something wrong with that picture?

We arent talking about career we are talking about on the Hawks . To spout career implies that he had these same conditions throughout his entire career . I would think that after watching Crawford this past year that its pretty apparent that his fg% is not a result of always shooting bad shots but of trying to play his style of play while having the responsibilities of JJ for 38 mpg over a full season . Those teams needed 25ppg from jamal to win and I just dont see his high energy style being able to sustain that over 82 games on teams with no backup and infighting .

Again you are talking about what he did with other teams instead of what he is actually doing now . In 2005 jamal took bad shots with the knicks so that explains why JJ this year holds the ball and Jamal makes his move much faster ?

The fact remains that the same approach that worked for JJ last year or the year before may not work for JJ or the team anymore as well as it once did . Its about the growth of JJ as a player along with the team . Is he adjusting his game as Al and Smoove grow as players or is he intent on fighting it while still trying to do it his way ?

I dont think anyone is expecting JJ to stop being JJ but he doesnt always have to hold the ball for 20 seconds everytime he gets hot the team is so much better than what it used to be and there just isnt a need to do it all the time now .

[niremetal]

We arent talking about career we are talking about on the Hawks . To spout career implies that he had these same conditions throughout his entire career . I would think that after watching Crawford this past year that its pretty apparent that his fg% is not a result of always shooting bad shots but of trying to play his style of play while having the responsibilities of JJ for 38 mpg over a full season . Those teams needed 25ppg from jamal to win and I just dont see his high energy style being able to sustain that over 82 games on teams with no backup and infighting .

Again you are talking about what he did with other teams instead of what he is actually doing now . In 2005 jamal took bad shots with the knicks so that explains why JJ this year holds the ball and Jamal makes his move much faster ?

The fact remains that the same approach that worked for JJ last year or the year before may not work for JJ or the team anymore as well as it once did . Its about the growth of JJ as a player along with the team . Is he adjusting his game as Al and Smoove grow as players or is he intent on fighting it while still trying to do it his way ?

I dont think anyone is expecting JJ to stop being JJ but he doesnt always have to hold the ball for 20 seconds everytime he gets hot the team is so much better than what it used to be and there just isnt a need to do it all the time now .

Alright, whatever. You really think that what Jamal has done from the day he graduated high school through last April became immediately irrelevant when he came to Atlanta and saw a huge increase in the number of open looks he got because he no longer was asked to carry as large an offensive load? Do you really not see how much more of a chucker he becomes when he plays without JJ on the floor?

It's pretty clear that your opinions of JJ and Jamal are pretty much based on seeing only what you want to see. Done with you.

Edited March 29, 2010 by niremetal

[Crank]

Alright, whatever. You really think that what Jamal has done from the day he graduated high school through last April became immediately irrelevant when he came to Atlanta and saw a huge increase in the number of open looks he got because he no longer was asked to carry as large an offensive load? Do you really not see how much more of a chucker he becomes when he plays without JJ on the floor?

It's pretty clear that your opinions of JJ and Jamal are pretty much based on seeing only what you want to see. Done with you.

I think it has no bearing based on what weve seen from him this year . Are you saying that Woody should tell Crawford not to shoot because of his fg% with his previous teams ? Again ignorance is bliss . If someone says hey Joe should work faster with the ball because it works really well as evidenced by the success Jamal has had in our offense then a a paragraph on what Jamal did before he got here is irrelevant because no one is talking about what he did before he got here but the success hes had in our offense .

Hes averaging 13 shots per game this year is that what you call chucking ? When JJ is off the floor his role is to ATTACK and you know this but choose to ignore but regardless of that was he chucking last night while JJ was of the floor ? It seems you are stuck in the past and this entire post is just all over the place.

[Plainview1981]

The dude left the Suns while they were basically at their peak... It will not be hard to believe if he abandon's the team now.

[NineOhTheRino]

The dude left the Suns while they were basically at their peak... It will not be hard to believe if he abandon's the team now.

Sorry but the Suns did a S&T. Don't think Joe had a choice in the matter.

[spotatl]

Sorry but the Suns did a S&T. Don't think Joe had a choice in the matter.

You are aware that players have to agree to a S&T right?

Edited March 30, 2010 by spotatl

[NineOhTheRino]

You are aware that players have to agree to a S&T right?

c'mon son....

we all know the Suns are on of the cheapest teams in the NBA. Remember this is the same team that outright sold draft picks.

Luol Deng, Nate Robinson, Rajon Rondo, Rudy Fernandez, and Sergio Rodriguez. Yep, they were all Phoenix Suns draft picks but none of them ever played for the Suns. They were all traded during their draft picks for various reasons but mainly to free up cap room and relieve them of luxury tax issues.

[AHF]

JJ was driving the bus that took him out of Phoenix. He was a young player who was mad that they didn't extend him for big dollars the year before and who wanted to be the franchise guy in Atlanta. I see no reason to think he would view the situation in Atlanta in the same way.

[spotatl]

Oh- I agree that the Suns wouldn't have matched the contract the Hawks were offering JJ and it was a mistake to do the S&T instead of just signing him outright. Just the way you talked about the S&T (don't think he had a choice in the matter) I wanted to make sure you knew that JJ did have to agree to it.

Edited March 30, 2010 by spotatl

[HawksBalla]

Nique is sick of Iso-Joe and Woody running his starters to death, just like every other fan with common sense. He knows that the Hawks could be better than what they currently are.

It is no wonder to me that we lose 4th-quarter leads. Horford, Smoove, and JJ are locks to play 35-40 a night, and Crawford plays almost the entire second half as well. By the fourth quarter, they are spent.