Is it a valid criticism of this team that it does not have that one guy who is Mr. Intensity?

[sturt]

We have guys who have been through a lot of losing, and are now getting to enjoy winning... getting to enjoy the environment when you expect to win instead of just hoping to do so. But while most players are disappointed to lose, it's my opinion that championship teams always have that one guy, if not a couple or even several who DESPISE losing. They absolutely have a contempt for it that far transcends mere disappointment.

It does not appear to me that we have a guy like that as I look up and down the roster.

Putting aside basketball talent/skills for the moment...

To your mind, is that (i.e., the lack of such a player or players) a major element that will ultimately keep us from getting to the top of the mountain? I haven't fully reached a conclusion yet for that question myself, though I know how I'm inclined to answer it. I'm inclined to answer, "yes, that will be a major reason... lack of emotional investment to that degree." On the other hand, could it be that a team gains such a superior level of chemistry compared to other teams, having played together for so long, that they eventually reach the summit regardless? Sure, they don't get as down on themselves when they screw up, but then again, maybe that prevents them from the in-fighting that often occurs when some players begin to think they're more emotionally invested than others.

:question:

[hazer]

No, it is not valid. That one player is Al Horford.

[dakast]

No, it is not valid. That one player is Al Horford.

If Horford was that player he wouldn't have allowed the Hawks to sleepwalk their way through the 3rd quarter.

[HawkWeisErrr]

No, it is not valid. That one player is Al Horford.

No doubt. Horford is all into the game whether on the court or on the bench. I sense a lot of emotion from Josh and Crawford as well. What this teams really needs, and I've said it 100 times, is a true superstar. We need a guy that can pick us up when the others are struggling. I've seen Crawford do it but inconsistently. It really frustrates me that our "star" player acts like he doesn't have a care in the world. Maybe it's because he doesn't?

[exodus]

No doubt. Horford is all into the game whether on the court or on the bench. I sense a lot of emotion from Josh and Crawford as well. What this teams really needs, and I've said it 100 times, is a true superstar. We need a guy that can pick us up when the others are struggling. I've seen Crawford do it but inconsistently. It really frustrates me that our "star" player acts like he doesn't have a care in the world. Maybe it's because he doesn't?

yeah he doesn't care. That is why he was the one who picked Jennings pocket not once but twice in the 2nd half when jennings was killing us. He was the one who hit the shots to put the Bucks away.

If you have an idea about how we can land a Wade/Kobe type talent with the MLE then please do share. Otherwise STFU.

To the topic of the thread Josh Smith has always been the emotional leader of the Hawks. The problem is that he frequently gets too intense and emotional to the detriment of his game. Last night he was very much under control and didn't jaw at the refs like he usually does.

The only guy the Bucks have that can guard Smith is M&M and he was on JJ. I think the Hawks should have gone to Smith more often to exploit that mismatch. There is no way Delfino can guard Smith.

[Crank]

We have guys who have been through a lot of losing, and are now getting to enjoy winning... getting to enjoy the environment when you expect to win instead of just hoping to do so. But while most players are disappointed to lose, it's my opinion that championship teams always have that one guy, if not a couple or even several who DESPISE losing. They absolutely have a contempt for it that far transcends mere disappointment.

It does not appear to me that we have a guy like that as I look up and down the roster.

Putting aside basketball talent/skills for the moment...

To your mind, is that (i.e., the lack of such a player or players) a major element that will ultimately keep us from getting to the top of the mountain? I haven't fully reached a conclusion yet for that question myself, though I know how I'm inclined to answer it. I'm inclined to answer, "yes, that will be a major reason... lack of emotional investment to that degree." On the other hand, could it be that a team gains such a superior level of chemistry compared to other teams, having played together for so long, that they eventually reach the summit regardless? Sure, they don't get as down on themselves when they screw up, but then again, maybe that prevents them from the in-fighting that often occurs when some players begin to think they're more emotionally invested than others.

:question:

Ive said all year that with our starters there is no sense of urgency which is surprising consider how long theyve played together . You would think they would understand that if they take it up a notch that changes would probably be made and even if not that that Joe and Bibby would pushing them simply because you dont know how many more chances like this you will get anyway . Right now the urgency should be on those two the rest are too young to understand whats going on .

Im so sick of hearing about feed Josh because Delfino was on him . Josh is too inconsistent for us to go to him all game . we had a size advantage but the clear cut difference between halves was the post position . You cant post up 15ft from the basket with such limited post skills . Josh either established too far out or never established at all and is becoming a player who if he doesnt get the ball it effects his entireg ame .

[exodus]

Ive said all year that with our starters there is no sense of urgency which is surprising consider how long theyve played together . You would think they would understand that if they take it up a notch that changes would probably be made and even if not that that Joe and Bibby would pushing them simply because you dont know how many more chances like this you will get anyway . Right now the urgency should be on those two the rest are too young to understand whats going on .

Im so sick of hearing about feed Josh because Delfino was on him . Josh is too inconsistent for us to go to him all game . we had a size advantage but the clear cut difference between halves was the post position . You cant post up 15ft from the basket with such limited post skills . Josh either established too far out or never established at all and is becoming a player who if he doesnt get the ball it effects his entireg ame .

Huh? Can you give some examples of this? It certainly didn't happen yesterday since he had 10 rebounds, 4 assists and 4 blocks with no turnovers.

[SneakerKing33]

We have a star. We have players that care. We have players who have intensity. We might not have KG like intensity but we have it. The Hawks dont have the proper mental makeup as of now, but they continue to improve.

[niremetal]

We have a star. We have players that care. We have players who have intensity. We might not have KG like intensity but we have it. The Hawks dont have the proper mental makeup as of now, but they continue to improve.

<channeling mrhonline>

Your thoughts on...err...

</channeling mrhonline>

+1 :conversation:

[benhillboy]

Josh's highlights provide intensity that a lot of teams wish they had. Al and Woody also light some fire, and I suspect Bibs does his part in the huddle. Jamal's play is as intense as it gets wen he's on, and he also isn't afraid to get on teammates for not getting back on his corner threes :laugh:

[sturt]

Maybe we don't quite define "intense" the same way, boys. Coincidentally, this just-released AP story illustrates the point. If Josh Smith is your idea of "intense," we're just not speaking the same language.

ATLANTA (AP)—The Atlanta Hawks are keeping things nice and loose, and rookie Jeff Teague is a convenient target for their antics.

After Teague put up career highs in points and assists in a meaningless game against Cleveland to close the regular season, the veterans decided to remind the guy everyone calls “rook” of the locker room pecking order. Someone— Teague is sure Josh Smith(notes) was the culprit—filled the youngster’s luxury car with popcorn all the way up to the dashboard.

“It’s been this way all season long,” Smith said, who showed off pictures of Teague’s car being “popcorned” but denied any culpability in the prank (wink, wink). “That’s what it takes. You really don’t want to get too serious. When it gets serious, that’s usually when things are going wrong with a team.....”

[Sothron]

I agree with the people saying we need a superstar because frankly NBA history shows you need at least one to win a title. But we aren't getting one without giving up either Horford or Smoove. Please tell me what we can get for the MLE that qualifies as a superstar.

[exodus]

Maybe we don't quite define "intense" the same way, boys. Coincidentally, this just-released AP story illustrates the point. If Josh Smith is your idea of "intense," we're just not speaking the same language.

So your idea of intense is based on what players do off the court?

[HawksFan87]

uhmm Smoove is mr. intensity. Al does it at times. Obviously u don't watch many games. If you did u would know that..

[sturt]

My idea of intense is both. As I said, someone whose demeanor conveys, not just disappointment at losing, but outright repulsion. Smoove? Smoove makes some great plays sometimes and beats his chest and, sure, that's intense. But it's sporadic. That's the ONLY time he projects intensity, on-court or off. Not saying that that's necessarily a negative. He seems altogether comfortable with the assertion that he prefers to not let things get too serious. Maybe he's right. That's actually the intended question posed--is it necessary to have that Mr. Intensity type on your team, or can you do it with guys who never get too up or too down?

[niremetal]

uhmm Smoove is mr. intensity. Al does it at times. Obviously u don't watch many games. If you did u would know that..

:thumbsdownsmileyanim:

Actually, I think sturt and most other people on this thread do watch most games. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they don't watch the games, just that they notice different things.

I see Smoove be intense at times every game, but I also see him play lazy D and settle into jump-shooting far too often. Is he "intense" more often than Joe? Sure. But I wouldn't call him "Mr. Intensity." I would say Zaza is the closest we've got, but he's our 8th man. Horford shows flashes of it too, but he's no KG either.

Not incidentally, I don't think the Lakers have that guy. Kobe is most definitely not Mr. Intensity (the cult surrounding him notwithstanding, he takes many defensive possessions off in non-clutch situations and slows it up more than any Hawks guard on potential fast breaks), and they don't really have anyone in their front 8 who really is.

Edited April 18, 2010 by niremetal

[HawksFan87]

lol @ zaza being mr. intensity, he sucks, and barely plays enough to make an impact on the game. Al and Smoove are our intensity guys, and that's that!! :dancing18: Oh and I don't want any of our guys to EVER be like KG. he is the definition of a coward!!

Edited April 18, 2010 by jsmoovefan

[exodus]

My idea of intense is both. As I said, someone whose demeanor conveys, not just disappointment at losing, but outright repulsion. Smoove? Smoove makes some great plays sometimes and beats his chest and, sure, that's intense. But it's sporadic. That's the ONLY time he projects intensity, on-court or off. Not saying that that's necessarily a negative. He seems altogether comfortable with the assertion that he prefers to not let things get too serious. Maybe he's right. That's actually the intended question posed--is it necessary to have that Mr. Intensity type on your team, or can you do it with guys who never get too up or too down?

Smith hates losing. He can make boneheaded plays with the best of them and doesn't box out but when the other team is on the fast break Smith is the one chasing them down and disrupting it. Smith is the one putting in the no layup rule late in tight games. It doesn't matter where his man is he will not let someone get an uncontested layup. Sometimes he gets carried away with his emotions and it takes him out of the game (mainly his jawing with the refs). But for the most part he is a very intense player, just not a very smart one.

The Spurs have been one of the best teams in the league for years without anyone who would be considered intense. Duncan has always let his play do his talking on the court and is a jokester off the court. Who is the intense player on Orlando? Howard is one of the biggest jokesters in the league. Lebron is arguably the best player in the game but doesn't come across as intense away from the court.

In fact i would say most great players act very light hearted away from the court. I remember reading in "The Jordan Rules" that one day in the locker room Jordan, Grant and Pippen argued for a half hour about whose son had the biggest pecker. They eventually agreed that it was Pippen's.

[sturt]

Smith hates losing. He can make boneheaded plays with the best of them and doesn't box out but when the other team is on the fast break Smith is the one chasing them down and disrupting it. Smith is the one putting in the no layup rule late in tight games. It doesn't matter where his man is he will not let someone get an uncontested layup. Sometimes he gets carried away with his emotions and it takes him out of the game (mainly his jawing with the refs). But for the most part he is a very intense player, just not a very smart one.

The Spurs have been one of the best teams in the league for years without anyone who would be considered intense. Duncan has always let his play do his talking on the court and is a jokester off the court. Who is the intense player on Orlando? Howard is one of the biggest jokesters in the league. Lebron is arguably the best player in the game but doesn't come across as intense away from the court.

In fact i would say most great players act very light hearted away from the court. I remember reading in "The Jordan Rules" that one day in the locker room Jordan, Grant and Pippen argued for a half hour about whose son had the biggest pecker. They eventually agreed that it was Pippen's.

I was thinking of SA myself, actually, not long after I finished posting... but thought I'd wait to see what anyone else came up with... Orlando hasn't won anything yet, so they don't qualify... and anyone can have a laugh, but that doesn't disqualify them from being considered intense... Jordan, in particular. What's different between Jordan and Smoove? Hopefully, that's self-evident, but let's just leave it at this: it might only be me, but I cannot even begin to imagine MJ ever making the statement, "You don't really want to get too serious." The popcorn prank is just a laugh. But the statement suggests that Smoove is guided by the don't really want to get too serious philosophy.

Anyhow, it's hard to recall any teams, but I think the San Antonio might provide a good answer to the question I posed... it might be rare, but not historically unprecedented.

[exodus]

I was thinking of SA myself, actually, not long after I finished posting... but thought I'd wait to see what anyone else came up with... Orlando hasn't won anything yet, so they don't qualify... and anyone can have a laugh, but that doesn't disqualify them from being considered intense... Jordan, in particular. What's different between Jordan and Smoove? Hopefully, that's self-evident, but let's just leave it at this: it might only be me, but I cannot even begin to imagine MJ ever making the statement, "You don't really want to get too serious." The popcorn prank is just a laugh. But the statement suggests that Smoove is guided by the don't really want to get too serious philosophy.

Anyhow, it's hard to recall any teams, but I think the San Antonio might provide a good answer to the question I posed... it might be rare, but not historically unprecedented.

Jordan was certainly intense on the court. But off the court he would clown his teamates relentlessly. He was actually pretty abusive. He was also known to be very fond of playing golf or going out gambling the day before a game when a serious player might be more inclined to rest or watch game tape. Early in his career he didn't work out. During the summers he would just play golf, no running or lifting at all.

The Hawks problem isn't a lack of intensity off the court. Their problem, at least in terms of winning a title, is not enough talent on the court. They are undersized in the front court, slow in the back court with a weak bench. They don't have a first or second team All-NBA player. It is hard to win a title without a first or second team All-NBA player. In fact i would be willing to bet it has never happened. Not even the Detroit team of a few years ago would qualify.

The All-NBA teams haven't been announced yet but i think it is a pretty safe bet that no Hawks will be on the first or second teams.