This series proves something that most fans fail to get....

[Diesel]

offense wins games.

If you have the strongest offensive team, you will eventually crack the defense. Dwight Howard can overpower any of our defenders. It doesn't matter how good a defensive scheme we put up, when Orlando's offense is hitting on all cylinders, they will blow any team out of the water.

The hawks failing is not defense. It's offensive as well. We can't score. I don't care how good your defense is.. if you're putting up 7 and 8 points in a quarter, you will lose.

How we have failed is that we have paid no attention to offense and have believed that if we play Randall Cunningham, plays in the dirt, Iso ball that the defense will prevail... That didn't win for the Eagle either.

As we go forward, we need a coach who knows something about Xs and Os on the offensive side of the ball.

In yrs past, I have told you guys we needed Alvin Gentry and Del Harris and Paul Westhead only to hear about defense.

Well, as I look now. Alvin's team may be headed to the WCF.

We have Woody.. a defensive technician and we wonder why every play is Iso Joe and why the defense is keying off of it.

[dakast]

offense wins games.

If you have the strongest offensive team, you will eventually crack the defense. Dwight Howard can overpower any of our defenders. It doesn't matter how good a defensive scheme we put up, when Orlando's offense is hitting on all cylinders, they will blow any team out of the water.

The hawks failing is not defense. It's offensive as well. We can't score. I don't care how good your defense is.. if you're putting up 7 and 8 points in a quarter, you will lose.

How we have failed is that we have paid no attention to offense and have believed that if we play Randall Cunningham, plays in the dirt, Iso ball that the defense will prevail... That didn't win for the Eagle either.

As we go forward, we need a coach who knows something about Xs and Os on the offensive side of the ball.

In yrs past, I have told you guys we needed Alvin Gentry and Del Harris and Paul Westhead only to hear about defense.

Well, as I look now. Alvin's team may be headed to the WCF.

We have Woody.. a defensive technician and we wonder why every play is Iso Joe and why the defense is keying off of it.

Dude, the Hawks haven't played enough offense or defense in this series to prove anything to me........

[Diesel]

Dude, the Hawks haven't played enough offense or defense in this series to prove anything to me........

Still, we lose because our offense fails to score. Game 2 for example.

[HawkWeisErrr]

Still, we lose because our offense fails to score. Game 2 for example.

We lost because our defense gave up more points than our offense scored.

[DJlaysitup]

...If you have the strongest offensive team, you will eventually crack the defense. Dwight Howard can overpower any of our defenders. It doesn't matter how good a defensive scheme we put up, when Orlando's offense is hitting on all cylinders, they will blow any team out of the water....

ORL is the best team in the NBA IMHO...Stern and refs and politics aside. They will be the best team for the next 4/5 years if they can stay together. They are a dynasty waiting to happen. We (Hawks) just got caught up in the whirlwind - and reacted poorly.

[Guest]

Sometimes the best defense is a good offense. When I read that Woodson basically said "I don't give a $#%@ about offense" is when I realized that he is missing the big picture.

Even if the coach truly feels that offense doesn't matter, you don't tell your players that. You have to preach something on offense so they know you have a system. When you say that your players can do whatever they want on offense you have lost control of half your team.

[Devon]

Fact of the matter is that this is the NBA and it shouldn't be "either or"...

This isn't the 53-Man, Salary Cap decision driven, Roster of the NFL where a team is usually one or the other (Great D/Mediocre O or vice versa)... This team has 12-13 players and those players should be adept at all areas of the game to a professional standard; I'm not saying they should all be 1st-team NBA quality but they should at least have the basic skills of EVERY facet of the game.

The fact that we have guys that simply DON'T play defense (Bibby/Crawford) drives me crazy; makes me wish I could clone Mario West's defensive tenacity and somehow inject the formula into those aformentioned players...

Mario West, say what you will about him being the "last second man", cares more about the fact that he lives the dream of being a professional basketball player; playing a childrens' game for a living, than any of the Multi-Millionaires in front of him on the depth chart... AND IT SHOWS, even if for only 3.8 seconds of Amazing on-ball defense. I say BRAVO to the players' that play with his gusto and love for the game; I boo'd (loudly) the players whom I felt had given up on this year/city/fans...

[Diesel]

We lost because our defense gave up more points than our offense scored.

Yeah... but our offense has been horrid.

Offensively

During the season, we made 101.6 ppg on 46.8% from the field as a team.

During the playoffs, we made 90 ppg, on 42.6% from the field as a team.

Defensively:

During the season, we gave up 97.0 ppg, on 46% shooting.

During the playoffs, we gave up 96.1 ppg, on 45.4% shooting.

That's right. During the playoffs, our defense has improved... But look at our offense. Look...... Look at it. OFFENSE wins games.

[HawkWeisErrr]

Yeah... but our offense has been horrid.

Offensively

During the season, we made 101.6 ppg on 46.8% from the field as a team.

During the playoffs, we made 90 ppg, on 42.6% from the field as a team.

Defensively:

During the season, we gave up 97.0 ppg, on 46% shooting.

During the playoffs, we gave up 96.1 ppg, on 45.4% shooting.

That's right. During the playoffs, our defense has improved... But look at our offense. Look...... Look at it. OFFENSE wins games.

When a team is up by 30 and 40 points they hold the ball longer before shooting it. This in turn runs a lot of time off the clock. Therefore the team that is up by 30 and 40 points will not attempt to score as many points as they normally would. Therefore it may look like our defense was better because of our poor offense. Look at it.

[Diesel]

When a team is up by 30 and 40 points they hold the ball longer before shooting it. This in turn runs a lot of time off the clock. Therefore the team that is up by 30 and 40 points will not attempt to score as many points as they normally would. Therefore it may look like our defense was better because of our poor offense. Look at it.

I'm not going for that. Orlando purposely tried to run up the score. That's what happened in our games. In the three games that we have played them, they have scored 114, 112, and 102. Their season average is 102.8.

[Buzzard]

I'm not going for that. Orlando purposely tried to run up the score. That's what happened in our games. In the three games that we have played them, they have scored 114, 112, and 102. Their season average is 102.8.

So our defense kind of sucks against Orlando also. Basicly our entire game plan has sucked against Orlando and that is a coaching and roster issue IMO. Not just one or the other. But I am on board that JJ needs a 20ppg scoring option playing along side him.

[Jackets333]

I'm sorry HawksWeisErrr but you don't know what you are talking about. I guess the defense shoulda held the Magic to 70 points in game 1. Seriously?

[High5]

Orlando is a better defensive team than offensive team. Their defense is winning these games for them, and our defense is making the losses blowouts.

[LouFan]

Diesel has a valid point.

I think people fail to realize that offense is about creating open shots, which a friend of mine helped me realize. It is up to the players to score.

ISO offense eliminates that ability, which causes more difficult shots... Which leads to more misses.

It doesn't help that we stand and watch the ISO instead of getting to the paint for rebounds, which always baffles me.

I disagree that our defense is weak(players), our defensive scheme is weak(switch defense). That is why teams get easy shots.... C vs PG.... Drive to the basket for a lay up.

To Devon's point on all around players.... He is right and there is a reason. I do need to explain that a good offense helps defense... You attack them on offense and tire them down, which in turn makes it easier for you to defend them. The Hawks are letting the opponent get rest on defense! No cutting or driving to the basket. Which makes teams more efficient.

Orlando had a great team, but I strongly believe that Stan Van Gundy is a huge part of it. He is an offensive genius.

Edited May 10, 2010 by LouFan

[TheNorthCydeRises]

It's funny. The Hawks played the #2 defensive team in the league ( according to defensive rating ) in Milwaukee ( although a big part of their defense was missing, in the form of Bogut.

Then they have to play Orlando, who is #3 in defense according to defensive rating.

They're also the #1 team in the league when it comes to defensive eFG shooting %. And #1 in defensive rebound % ( our achillies heel as a team ). And #3 in free throws/field goal attempts ( .194 ). The only reason why this team is #3 in defense overall, is because they rank #27 in turnover%.

So while Orlando doesn't turn you over, they make you shoot a bad percentage from the field, and then they rebound all of your misses. And other than Dwight Howard, they don't get into the habit of putting you on the free throw line.

Orlando is the #1 defensive team left in the playoffs. And they're the #2 offensive team left in the playoffs. Phoenix is the top offense left.

And that correlates to them being #1 in defensive eFG% shooting . . . and #2 in offensive eFG% shooting. That's damn near the perfect scenario.

Our offense has been horrible against Orlando, because we can't make open shots, can't get a lot of offensive rebounds, and we have trouble scoring on the inside when Howard is in the game. But they get some of the credit for our horrible offense because they play great defense.

And our defense, while overall ended up pretty good vs Milwaukee, has been absolutely horrible against Orlando

Orlando eFG% - ( season avg - 53.6% eFG% / 47% actual FG% ) . . . offensive rtg: 111.4

Game 1 - 57.7% ( 52.4% actual FG% ) - 124.7 off rtg

Game 2 - 62.5% ( 55.9% actual FG% ) - 138.5 off rtg

Game 3 - 57.7% ( 50.7% actual FG% ) - 127.7 off rtg

Atlanta eFG% - ( season avg - 50.6% eFG / 46.8 actual FG% ) . . . offensive rtg: 111.9

Game 1 - 35.8% ( 34.8% actual FG% ) - 77.7 off rtg

Game 2 - 45.3% ( 41.3% actual FG% ) - 121.2 off rtg

Game 3 - 37.3% ( 34.9% actual FG% ) - 91.2 off rtg

Keep in mind that Game 2 was the game in which we really hit the offensive boards and got to the FT line and made our FTs.

This is why people say ( and we all knew ) that Orlando was the worst possible matchup for us. They take away the 2 extra things that make our offense go. 1) Putting back offensive rebounds . . . . and 2) they make enough shots to stop our transition offense.

And on defense, we can't stop Howard and they take and make the 3 point shot at a prolific rate.

As Woody said . . we damn near have to play the perfect game ( or hope they're off big time on their 3 pointer ), for us to beat them.

Edited May 10, 2010 by northcyde

[thecampster]

offense wins games.

If you have the strongest offensive team, you will eventually crack the defense. Dwight Howard can overpower any of our defenders. It doesn't matter how good a defensive scheme we put up, when Orlando's offense is hitting on all cylinders, they will blow any team out of the water.

The hawks failing is not defense. It's offensive as well. We can't score. I don't care how good your defense is.. if you're putting up 7 and 8 points in a quarter, you will lose.

How we have failed is that we have paid no attention to offense and have believed that if we play Randall Cunningham, plays in the dirt, Iso ball that the defense will prevail... That didn't win for the Eagle either.

As we go forward, we need a coach who knows something about Xs and Os on the offensive side of the ball.

In yrs past, I have told you guys we needed Alvin Gentry and Del Harris and Paul Westhead only to hear about defense.

Well, as I look now. Alvin's team may be headed to the WCF.

We have Woody.. a defensive technician and we wonder why every play is Iso Joe and why the defense is keying off of it.

Great post...missed maybe the most valid point. Efficient offense leads to less fast break opportunities for the other team. After you score a basket you get a couple of extra seconds to get back into your defensive sets while the other team takes the ball out. Efficient offense means less easy baskets for the opposition. The best defense is a good offense. Additionally, good offense puts pressure on the other team to score and keep up. Pressure leads to mistakes and missed shots.

[Diesel]

Orlando is a better defensive team than offensive team. Their defense is winning these games for them, and our defense is making the losses blowouts.

Our offensive average against Orlando during the regular year is much higher than we have seen in this series. In this series.. offensively... 71, 98, 75... That's 81.3 ppg. Our offense is just not producing.

[NJHAWK]

The sad thing is that the Hawks wanted Dwight Howard from the get go in that draft and early on in most mocks he was slated to fall to us . Then teams started working him out and the rest is history. One thing about Orlando is even though they have a great center and some good 3 point shooters, no great 3 point shooters, they still never stop looking to add weapons to the team. They went out and got Barnes, they kept Gortat when everyone thought they would let him go and they traded for Vince when Hedo wanted way too much $$$$.

[High5]

Our offensive average against Orlando during the regular year is much higher than we have seen in this series. In this series.. offensively... 71, 98, 75... That's 81.3 ppg. Our offense is just not producing.

So you call 82.3 per game in the regular season "much higher" than 81.3 per game in the playoffs? :thumbsupsmileyanim: