Wretch is a sad panda. :(

[Wretch]

The same thought echoes over and over in my mind. The last time this team did anything significant was about 40 years ago... I wasn't even born. Newly relocated from St. Lous, we got to the conference finals (losing 4-1 to the Lakers). Seriously, I've been combing through NBA history trying to find a team with a similar story. Unless you count the expansion teams, I've only been able to find one - the Clippers. Teams like Boston and LA have gone down and come back up several times over that span. Hell, Orlando is flirting with their 3rd trip to the finals...and teams like OKC may have just leapfrogged us for the "young and upcoming" team label.

We have more wins. We've got a good team. We even have excitement we haven't had since Nique...but it just seems like we're still trying to be a real NBA team.

LA breathes a sigh of relief and signs Kobe.

Boston screams because they land KG and Ray Allen (who just dethroned the King BTW to reach the ECF...AGAIN).

Miami is working feverishly to keep Wade (who won them a title with Shaq).

Cleveland is worried about losing the face of the NBA (who has taken them to the ECFs and the finals).

...and here we are with YOUR ATLANTA HAWKS debating on what to do with Joe Johnson after being once again manhandled in the 2nd round. Seriously? Joe Johnson? I love JJ and I want him back. I love this team. I have been faithful for 25 years...but good God I am tired of getting bounced in the 2nd round. We as Hawks fans should stop for a second and take a step back and look at this team. Regardless of your position on what ever issue, look at this team...

I'm not saying we need to pull a Boston and mortgage the future or nuke the core and start over, but it is time to do something different. We have got to do SOMETHING. I am calling out management on this. Get the players and the coaches in here that can get this team out of the 2nd round please. Make the moves that every other team (except for the Clippers) has made around us for the past 40 years. Make the moves that make a difference.

All BS aside...what REALLY has to be done here? And what can we REALISTICALLY do?

/endrant

/sadpandaface

[mrhonline]

but it is time to do something different.

Agreed.

And again, I think you have three options to choose from:

1. Trade JJ.

2. Trade Horford.

3. Trade Smith.

[HawksFan87]

Our young players still have room to grow and improve their games , yes Al is included in that. If we were to trade anyone I'd rather it be Joe. If not we need better bench players, to spell our starters. outside of Jamal when he IS hitting shots , the rest of the bench sucks. When he's not , he doesn't do much of anything else..

[Antmillennium]

If nothing else is done, this one thing MUST be done:

DO NOT bring back Mike Woodson!!!!!!! Bring in a coach that actually cares and has a clue about offense. Also, make sure that coach knows how to make adjustments.

[terrellgroup]

The same thought echoes over and over in my mind. The last time this team did anything significant was about 40 years ago... I wasn't even born. Newly relocated from St. Lous, we got to the conference finals (losing 4-1 to the Lakers). Seriously, I've been combing through NBA history trying to find a team with a similar story. Unless you count the expansion teams, I've only been able to find one - the Clippers. Teams like Boston and LA have gone down and come back up several times over that span. Hell, Orlando is flirting with their 3rd trip to the finals...and teams like OKC may have just leapfrogged us for the "young and upcoming" team label.

We have more wins. We've got a good team. We even have excitement we haven't had since Nique...but it just seems like we're still trying to be a real NBA team.

LA breathes a sigh of relief and signs Kobe.

Boston screams because they land KG and Ray Allen (who just dethroned the King BTW to reach the ECF...AGAIN).

Miami is working feverishly to keep Wade (who won them a title with Shaq).

Cleveland is worried about losing the face of the NBA (who has taken them to the ECFs and the finals).

...and here we are with YOUR ATLANTA HAWKS debating on what to do with Joe Johnson after being once again manhandled in the 2nd round. Seriously? Joe Johnson? I love JJ and I want him back. I love this team. I have been faithful for 25 years...but good God I am tired of getting bounced in the 2nd round. We as Hawks fans should stop for a second and take a step back and look at this team. Regardless of your position on what ever issue, look at this team...

I'm not saying we need to pull a Boston and mortgage the future or nuke the core and start over, but it is time to do something different. We have got to do SOMETHING. I am calling out management on this. Get the players and the coaches in here that can get this team out of the 2nd round please. Make the moves that every other team (except for the Clippers) has made around us for the past 40 years. Make the moves that make a difference.

All BS aside...what REALLY has to be done here? And what can we REALISTICALLY do?

/endrant

/sadpandaface

You are 100 percent on point. I could not have said it better.

[shocker_90]

Two most important positions on the floor. PG and Center and we do not have either. Figure out a way to get a penetrating PG and a C and I will be on board with the direction this team is going.

Example of guys that come to mind that I feel would improve those positions. Tony Parker /Jarret Jack / Kendrick Perkins / Glen Davis

[lethalweapon3]

Roster-wise, we're still in mend-it-don't-end-it mode. This team's core remains too young to give up on wholesale.

The few who'd argue we should squander it all and dive into next year's lottery forget that we've been there enough already for the big-time superstar that will vault us into the championship (like LeBron... ahem), and for our troubles, our ventures into Lotto Land in the past decade have provided us with: Shelden, Acie, Marvin, Childress, and DerMarr Johnson... with only Horford panning out so far. Oops, I forgot... Pau Gasol, who we sent packing for Shareef long before he started rocking the drippy hair. Dreaming of lottery talent is only useful if we're confident we have the right minds making the picks. Otherwise, we'd better have "2020 vision" because that's how long it will take to get back to where we are now.

Sund still is challenged though, to upgrade starter positions and get this team legitimately ten-deep, with little wiggle room out there.

Up until now, we've been building this team with the mindset that the Celtics and Cavs were the team's measuring stick, when it has been the Magic all along who we should have been charting. Dwight, Shard, Jameer, and Stan Van are going nowhere until at least 2012. If we want to make it to Round 3 or beyond, when designing the Hawks future roster, this is the team to beat.

~lw3

[HawksFan87]

Big Baby sucks and so does Kendrick Perkins lol. Yeah Kendrcick MAY be able to guard dwight, but he is not a major post threat which is what we need.

[terrellgroup]

Agreed.

And again, I think you have three options to choose from:

1. Trade JJ.

2. Trade Horford.

3. Trade Smith.

Trade JJ, unless he does not expect a lot.

Get Salmon, and a deceit center.

Teague

Salmon

Josh

Horford

Ryan Hollins(any young true 7 footer)

BENCH

a deceit point

Crawford

Chill

Williams

ZaZa

Reserves

Bibby

the Augusta Center

Draft a shooting guard

[coachx]

If nothing else is done, this one thing MUST be done:

DO NOT bring back Mike Woodson!!!!!!! Bring in a coach that actually cares and has a clue about offense. Also, make sure that coach knows how to make adjustments.

+1

Sorry dude............I went to +1 you but my laptop mouse is so figity I accidently hit -1.

Give this guy the +1's he heserves to off set my mistake !

[Buzzard]

I am with you on this Wretch. Bold moves have to be made and if Sund and ownership say or do otherwise they are just giving us lip service. We keep saying our young core will get better and become Garnets, McHales, Niques, Wallaces, etc...and mangement is saying the same thing. But lets get real, would anyone here be willing to bet something of value that we currently have one HOF player on our roster? I do not think many would at all.

I have been a fan as far back as Pistol Pete and only then and one other time, the Nique era, did I feel management put all their cards on the table to try and compete with the elite in the NBA. We did not get to the finals but our ownership and management spent the money and made moves that shook the NBA up trying to get us there.

Edited May 14, 2010 by Buzzard

[mrhonline]

If nothing else is done, this one thing MUST be done:

DO NOT bring back Mike Woodson!!!!!!!

Per Sekou, this is to be announced this afternoon.

[drzachary]

Trade JJ, unless he does not expect a lot.

Get Salmon, and a deceit center.

Teague

Salmon

Josh

Horford

Ryan Hollins(any young true 7 footer)

This hinges on Teague being a good starter and Josh suddenly learning how to play the 3... don't think it has a chance of making the playoffs.

[NineOhTheRino]

This list says it all:

1

Los Angeles Lakers

$91,341,066

2

Dallas Mavericks

$87,755,575

3

Cleveland Cavaliers

$84,909,415

4

New York Knicks

$84,613,476

5

Boston Celtics

$84,069,655

6

Orlando Magic

$82,087,014

7

San Antonio Spurs

$78,994,500

8

Denver Nuggets

$75,303,687

9

Phoenix Suns

$74,981,240

10

Washington Wizards

$73,908,833

11

Miami Heat

$72,903,421

12

Utah Jazz

$72,026,817

13

New Orleans Hornets

$69,566,598

14

Milwaukee Bucks

$69,068,876

15

Houston Rockets

$69,047,876

16

Charlotte Bobcats

$68,565,860

17

Chicago Bulls

$67,851,905

18

Toronto Raptors

$67,795,889

19

Indiana Pacers

$66,914,689

20

Golden State Warriors

$66,663,180

21

Atlanta Hawks

$65,059,897

22

Philadelphia 76ers

$64,474,649

23

Minnesota Timberwolves

$62,764,920

24

New Jersey Nets

$61,039,789

25

Sacramento Kings

$60,678,826

26

Los Angeles Clippers

$59,159,990

27

Detroit Pistons

$58,597,137

28

Portland Trail Blazers

$58,202,224

29

Memphis Grizzlies

$57,644,298

30

Oklahoma City Thunder

$55,322,252

[Diesel]

Wretch,

you might not like what I say, but you got to understand the difference. BK did us a disservice 2 years in a row with the picking of busts. When you get to the lottery in the nba, you have to come up with players that are difference makers. Marvin and Shelden were not that. For Shelden, we were able to get Bibby who did what he could do but now is done. However, Marvin is still here. So what we are seeing is the fruit from the tree of mistakes past. How do we deal with that fruit... OF course you trade it.

I think that with all the moving and shaking that will go on this offseason, we may have a chance to move Marvin's contract. NJ, LAC, Chi, NY, and Miami have all set aside major money to go after free agents with. At least 2 of those teams will come up empty. With cash but no players, Marvin will look reasonable to them. Either Marvin or Chillz. I say that Sund has to get his game face on and get in there and see if he can move Marvin or Chillz or both. When you consider future of the team, we need to get smarter and tougher.

What's going to happen with Joe is an unknown. There are some teams that will be willing to overpay Joe to come and play for them. I don't think NJ will be totally quiet in all this. I can easily see them coming away with Lebron and Joe... and sending us Harris for our trouble. If that's how it happens, then that's what we will do. However, I think that in the end, we have to get a coach who can work with talent. A guy who knows Xs and Os but at the same time who can draw enough respect from the players that we have left to make them work.

[Buzzard]

Wretch,

you might not like what I say, but you got to understand the difference. BK did us a disservice 2 years in a row with the picking of busts. When you get to the lottery in the nba, you have to come up with players that are difference makers. Marvin and Shelden were not that. For Shelden, we were able to get Bibby who did what he could do but now is done. However, Marvin is still here. So what we are seeing is the fruit from the tree of mistakes past. How do we deal with that fruit... OF course you trade it.

And you failed to mention:

Chilz. Great value lottery pick. Last game played for us over two years ago and I cannot remember how long ago it was when he last started.

Acie Law who?

Speedy and his cap hit.

We should not downplay the wasted Shelden pick either. Instead of a young starter with the 5th pick in the draft, we ended up with a old starting pg and only got two good seasons out of him; instead of eight seasons ( rookie contract plus five ) if BK would have drafted smarter. Or at least much better trade bait for a younger starting PG than a bust like Shelden.

I agree with you Diesel moves have to be made. But ownership is also going to have to spend money as well to get us out of this 2nd round rut. 21st in salary is not a good sign.

We are at a point right now IMO; where either we spend the money to advance over the next one or two seasons; or start all over with a almost new core. Its simple math. The current teams who have been getting to the finals are spending the money, and other teams who want to get there and will reach into their pockets the next two seasons to try and get there will pass us by as well if we stay pat.

Edited May 15, 2010 by Buzzard

[Buzzard]

This list says it all:

21

Atlanta Hawks

$65,059,897

Spot on and if it does not change dramatically.; 2nd round humiliations is the best we can hope for. Period end of story.

[mrhonline]

Don't forget that nearly $2M of Joe's salary was paid years ago as part of his bonus...

[jhay610]

We should not downplay the wasted Shelden pick either. Instead of a young starter with the 5th pick in the draft, we ended up with a old starting pg and only got two good seasons out of him; instead of eight seasons ( rookie contract plus five ) if BK would have drafted smarter. Or at least much better trade bait for a younger starting PG than a bust like Shelden.

and it was a friggin' coup to turn him into Bibby. The Shelden Guarantee was BK's biggest sin in my opinion.

[Final_quest]

Spot on and if it does not change dramatically.; 2nd round humiliations is the best we can hope for. Period end of story.

Exactly our true root problem. Most championship teams have about 3 guys making max type money. All of the other 2nd round playoffs team had a top 12 payroll. We were the only team with a payroll outside the top 20 to make it as far as we did. If we are unwilling to pay for players our only chance is to find a true superstar through the draft like the Thunder did. Best reason to not resign JJ.

Ultimately it is up to the owners. If they want to spend money like Mark Cuban then resign Joe. Otherwise get some young players and picks in a sign and trade.