Is this a CHAMPIONSHIP LEVEL fan base?

[Buzzard]

It's just my view that fans can't have it both ways. If we don't make a serious commitment to see a damn good product . . ( 65 home wins in 2 years . . . tied for the best 2 year stretch the franchise has ever seen ) . . how can we seriously want or hope that management continues to upgrade the product?

You seem to be ignoring me so this is going to be my last post on this topic.

Upgraded the product? Since when? We have signed one RFA in JJ and traded for a non starter in Craw. Bibby was an upgrade but he also turned out to be only a two year upgrade like Craw if we do not trade him this year.

Here is the root of the problem IMO:

We tried to build through the draft but our GM blew our draft picks away quicker than a crack addict with his pipe. In no uncertain terms we could have had these four players Josh Smith. JJ, Roy, and either Deron or Paul. We would not have gotten Horf in all likelyhood had we drafted better.

I do not blame the owners for not having a higher payroll but they are to blame for hiring BK and his draft picks. They should not pay max money for non-max type players. But no doubt about it; we would have had a much higher payroll with those four players; and a much better attendance ranking as well. The Spirit is getting exactly what they are paying for. 18th in attendance and 21st in payroll.

They made a bad business decision with the hiring of BK. Bad business decisions almost always lead to bad returns on investment. They can fix this but moves have to be made.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1st In your opinion Top five in attendance is the minimum acceptance for a good fan base. If that is the case the other 25 teams should all relocate

2nd, I think getting at least out of the 2nd round is much more important in generating a championship buzz than finishing 2nd in your own division. And furthermore, two consecutive 2nd round sweeps is not going to help matters.

In a nutshell....you and I have a huge difference of opinion concerning what is a solid fan base and what is needed to generate that fan base into a buzz that gets the casual fan into the game....and it is a huge difference of opinion in my opinion.

No sir. I said that if we got to a championship level as a team, we should at least be a top 5 team in attendance. In other words . . I want our attendance to at least somewhat match-up with where we are as a team.

The Hawks were a top 10 team . . but 18th in attendance. Only Milwaukee and Charlotte were behind us attendance wise out of all the playoff teams.

Here's a question: If we post another 50+ overall win and 30+ home win team, will the Hawks break into the top 15 in attendance?

That's why I brought up the New Orleans example. When they were good, they had their arena filled to almost 98% capacity. When they hit a downturn, their attendance numbers went down pretty significantly.

But I can't bring up them . . or Portland . . or Utah . . or Oklahoma City, because they're all small market teams.

I can't bring up the fact that even when Chicago had that 4 year stretch after Jordan left, in which they never won more than 21 games in a season . . they managed to post top 5, top 10 attendance numbers

Can't bring up Phoenix, even though they have more transients than ATL ( but have been a winning franchise much longer )

Can't bring up Houston, even though their traffic situation is as bad ( if not worse ) than Atlanta's

Can't bring up any other city or fan base to compare to Atlanta, unless it has Atlanta's "unique set of circumstances" that prevent it from being a city that fully supports its good ballclubs.

But as soon as Lebron rolls into town . . ."voila" . . . everybody is out . . . everybody is either ready to cheer Lebron or cheer the Hawks . . . and most of all . . . everybody is ON TIME FOR THE GAME. All of those traffic issues magically go away, when he comes to town . . even for a 7 pm Wednesday night start.

During the playoffs, this fan base shows signs that we can be a "championship level" fan base. The "get up and go" to attend a Hawks game is there. The enthusaism about the Hawks is there.

But during the regular season, when teams really make their revenue . . . it's "blah . . should I go to the game tonight? Traffic is really bad, and we're playing the Bobcats, so I'll just stay at home."

Championship level fan bases go to the games ( in mass ) to support their team . . . not just simply go to the game.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

You seem to be ignoring me so this is going to be my last post on this topic.

Upgraded the product? Since when? We have signed one RFA in JJ and traded for a non starter in Craw. Bibby was an upgrade but he also turned out to be only a two year upgrade like Craw if we do not trade him this year.

Here is the root of the problem IMO:

We tried to build through the draft but our GM blew our draft picks away quicker than a crack addict with his pipe. In no uncertain terms we could have had these four players Josh Smith. JJ, Roy, and either Deron or Paul. We would not have gotten Horf in all likelyhood had we drafted better.

I do not blame the owners for not having a higher payroll but they are to blame for hiring BK and his draft picks. They should not pay max money for non-max type players. But no doubt about it; we would have had a much higher payroll with those four players; and a much better attendance ranking as well. The Spirit is getting exactly what they are paying for. 18th in attendance and 21st in payroll.

They made a bad business decision with the hiring of BK. Bad business decisions almost always lead to bad returns on investment. They can fix this but moves have to be made.

Going from 8 games below .500 two years ago . . to 24 games over .500 now . . . is a SIGNIFICANT UPGRADE in the product, despite the GM, ownership, coach, and player problems.

[coachx]

The point is how you budget your money really. Instead of going to an expensive restaurant to eat wanna be Italian food (Olive Garden)... Use the money on a ticket. Or instead of watching Iron Man 2 in IMAX, get a Hawk ticket. The economy is not so bad that you cannot afford the tickets. You just have to re-budget. So money is not a factor more than transportation and getting up to go.

Live games > HD television any day. Because you are around a bunch of fans who are cheering with you. Had some great memories in Phillips! Met some cool people too.

Ya but most wives would rather do other stuff then go to a Hawks game..............and I proposed to my wife at center cout of Phillips Arena over 3 years ago.........she still would rather go do other things.

The only game she went to with me, all year, was the Hawks / Magic Game 3. That was a putrid game. Spent $115 per ticket for that embarrasment.

[Buzzard]

Going from 8 games below .500 two years ago . . to 24 games over .500 now . . . is a SIGNIFICANT UPGRADE in the product, despite the GM, ownership, coach, and player problems.

See your opiinon is wins equals championship caliber team. Most fans completely disagree with this IMO. Its the playoffs that show championship caliber play and players. 1st round exits and 2nd round sweeps are for losers. Its that plain and simple.

Here is how owners who will only accept championship caliber players respond.

Braves the young guns...despite having the best young pitching staff in baseball respond by signing none other than the previous seasons Cy Young award winner Greg Maddox

Falcons sign Michael Vick to a 100 million dollar contract. Less than two seasons later he is in prison. The Falcons respond by taking a rookie quaterback and paying him 72 million while also picking up free agent running back Michael Turner

The Hawks after losing to the Celtics in what many consider to be the best 7 game 2nd round series in the history of the NBA respond by signing Moses Malone and Reggie Theus.

These owners need to respond to what BK did in the draft.

Edited May 18, 2010 by Buzzard

[gsuteke]

Yes and no.

No . . it's out our fault that the team got housed in the playoffs.

Yes . . a great crowd can help a team win a game by feeding off of its energy level.

It's just my view that fans can't have it both ways. If we don't make a serious commitment to see a damn good product . . ( 65 home wins in 2 years . . . tied for the best 2 year stretch the franchise has ever seen ) . . how can we seriously want or hope that management continues to upgrade the product?

I mean . . we basically drew only 11,000 more people in a 53-win 09 - 10 season, than we did in a 37-win 07 - 08 season. That like 270 more people per game.

We probably won't know for a while how much revenue the Hawks generated this year, compared to last year. But you'd have to wonder if we did any better this year, than we did last year. They did raise ticket prices on the marquee games. And they did stop giving away so many tickets. so maybe their fiscal numbers look a little better this year, despite the slight dip in attendance.

I appreciate where you're coming from Eddie you bleed Hawks basketball but stop talking down to people would be my comment. I would say you are one of the top 5 contributors to HS at this point in time but be cognizant of the fact that if some people want to boo Joe Johnson that doesn't make them terrible fans. If the Hawks can't sell out Philllips that isn't the reason they can't win an NBA title. That's not on me, you, Zack, or whomever. That's on the professionals who get payed to play a game.

In the end the fan base should have little to do with the results on the court, especially considering how poor these Hawks teams have played on road.

[Joker]

I appreciate where you're coming from Eddie you bleed Hawks basketball but stop talking down to people would be my comment. I would say you are one of the top 5 contributors to HS at this point in time but be cognizant of the fact that if some people want to boo Joe Johnson that doesn't make them terrible fans. If the Hawks can't sell out Philllips that isn't the reason they can't win an NBA title. That's not on me, you, Zack, or whomever. That's on the professionals who get payed to play a game.

In the end the fan base should have little to do with the results on the court, especially considering how poor these Hawks teams have played on road.

gsu, no need to use gov't names on here.

[gsuteke]

gsu, no need to use gov't names on here.

Perhaps but then again maybe that is why we are so contentious here. Zack and I share opposite views on most things when it comes to finances (DrZachary) but then again when I'm in Atlanta I'll call the guy because he's a neat person to talk to 1 on 1.

Perhaps if we all knew each other on a 1st name basis as I and "Northcyde" do the internet world would be a much smaller place.

[Joker]

Perhaps but then again maybe that is why we are so contentious here. Zack and I share opposite views on most things when it comes to finances (DrZachary) but then again when I'm in Atlanta I'll call the guy because he's a neat person to talk to 1 on 1.

Perhaps if we all knew each other on a 1st name basis as I and "Northcyde" do the internet world would be a much smaller place.

It's cool, but if I knew you offline, I would hate for you to use my government on the site. None of this is my business so my bad for being nosey.

Anyway... New Article

Edited May 18, 2010 by nbasuperstar40

[gsuteke]

It's cool, but if I knew you offline, I would hate for you to use my government on the site. None of this is my business so my bad for being nosey.

Anyway... New Article

perhaps you should register to be a political squawker which is a realm i do not indulge in. However on the big board we can all get along.

Back to the point of this thread I think Northcyde is really beating the "fan" drum way too hard.

[HawksFan87]

the hawks have the WORST fan base in the league. bunch of bandwagoners who would rather cheer for lebron and kobe or any other huge star when they come to town..

[rusty]

Answer me this coachx

We win 34 home games.

We were a top 5 - 10 team in the NBA all year.

Why did overall attendance to Hawk games slightly decrease?

If we as a fan base are ready for a winner, why didn't they come out to the games? Do the usual excuses hold any water? When this team suits up next year, is attendance going to increase or decrease?

People may get tired of these questions getting asked, but this is the reality of the situation here.

we have hard times now, when the team constantly loses to shitty teams, get blown out in the first quarter, & lose games constantly when they are up going into the 4 th quarter.then the fan base might increase. of course you as #1 fan & expert on the hawks could buy a lot more season tickets

Edited May 18, 2010 by rusty

[TheNorthCydeRises]

It's cool, but if I knew you offline, I would hate for you to use my government on the site. None of this is my business so my bad for being nosey.

Anyway... New Article

It's cool . . . . . . cause my name isn't Eddie.

[Eddielives]

It's cool . . . . . . cause my name isn't Eddie.

No but mine is, or actually it's Marty.

[NineOhTheRino]

It's cool, but if I knew you offline, I would hate for you to use my government on the site. None of this is my business so my bad for being nosey.

Anyway... New Article

Two Words: Bobby Cox.

[drzachary]

the hawks have the WORST fan base in the league. bunch of bandwagoners who would rather cheer for lebron and kobe or any other huge star when they come to town..

Point of order -- that's not the Hawks fan base, so why are you insulting US?

Edited May 18, 2010 by drzachary

[Buzzard]

Point of order -- that's not the Hawks fan base, so why are you insulting US?

The ones rooting for LeBron and Kobe are not Hawks fans for sure. And calling out the bandwagon fans is the easiest way out. Every city has them; but I prefer to call them casual fans who need to be shown a winner to get them in their seats.

People keep calling Atl a college town. I wonder if the reason for that is based more on the success Georgia Tech has enjoyed than a fact of fandom. Examples, when was the last time GT went more than ten seasons without advancing past the 2nd round of the ACC tournament? Or ten seasons without at least competeing for one of the major ACC Championships?

I think the answer to both questions is never....

Edited May 18, 2010 by Buzzard

[NineOhTheRino]

The ones rooting for LeBron and Kobe are not Hawks fans for sure. And calling out the bandwagon fans is the easiest way out. Every city has them; but I prefer to call them casual fans who need to be shown a winner to get them in their seats.

People keep calling Atl a college town. I wonder if the reason for that is based more on the success Georgia Tech has enjoyed than a fact of fandom. Examples, when was the last time GT went more than ten seasons without advancing past the 2nd round of the ACC tournament? Or ten seasons without at least competeing for one of the major ACC Championships?

I think the answer to both questions is never....

Atl is not a sports town period! GT football is not doing any better than the Hawks/Braves. Honestly the City of Atlanta has too many people living below the poverty level to support professional sports. So awful traffic, poverty and crime makes Atl a difficult proposition for any sports team. Sad to say but if the teams want better results they may have to consider moving to North or South GA.

It's cool, but if I knew you offline, I would hate for you to use my government on the site. None of this is my business so my bad for being nosey.

Anyway... New Article

damn! I was thinking about adding a "What's your government name?" post.

.

.

Edited May 18, 2010 by NineOhTheRino

[coachx]

Anyway... New Article

That article does a good job of explaining why life long Atlantans and long time Atlanta sports fans feel jaded.

It’s the fans of Atlanta seeing their teams reach a combined six World Series and Super Bowls and win one of them (the Braves have also lost in the National League Championship Series six times).

Meanwhile, Atlanta’s local basketball and hockey teams have earned a combined 30 playoff appearances with just two conference finals appearances to show for. That’s why Atlanta tops our list of sports heartbreak cities, followed closely by Seattle, Buffalo, Phoenix and San Diego.

Since joining the ranks of big league sports in 1966, Atlanta has produced 56 playoff teams, of which 15 moved on to at least the final four of the NFL, NBA or Major League Baseball postseason (neither of its two hockey teams, the Flames and Thrashers, have gotten there). Just one club, the 1995 Braves, won a championship. It adds up to one title in 142 cumulative seasons of sports.

[niremetal]

That article does a good job of explaining why life long Atlantans and long time Atlanta sports fans feel jaded.

Which would be a much stronger argument if the Braves' World Series title resulted in a lasting bump in attendance. Instead, the Braves were failing to sell out playoff games by 1998 while Cleveland - a team from a smaller market that lost twice in the World Series and once in the LDS in the preceding 3 years - sold out every regular season and playoff game between 1995 and 2001.

Edited May 18, 2010 by niremetal