Is this a CHAMPIONSHIP LEVEL fan base?

[Dejay]

See your opiinon is wins equals championship caliber team. Most fans completely disagree with this IMO. Its the playoffs that show championship caliber play and players. 1st round exits and 2nd round sweeps are for losers. Its that plain and simple.

Here is how owners who will only accept championship caliber players respond.

Braves the young guns...despite having the best young pitching staff in baseball respond by signing none other than the previous seasons Cy Young award winner Greg Maddox

Falcons sign Michael Vick to a 100 million dollar contract. Less than two seasons later he is in prison. The Falcons respond by taking a rookie quaterback and paying him 72 million while also picking up free agent running back Michael Turner

The Hawks after losing to the Celtics in what many consider to be the best 7 game 2nd round series in the history of the NBA respond by signing Moses Malone and Reggie Theus.

These owners need to respond to what BK did in the draft.

Ding. Now that's what I'm talking about.

I get this all the time from folks who whined for years about the Braves not selling out in the playoffs. I have to educate them by pointing out that attendance was never a problem in the early part of the '90s when they were bringing in Greg Maddux, Fred McGriff, Denny Neagle, Jeff Reardon, Mike Devereaux, et al to solidify their push to October. They didn't win nearly enough world titles as they should have but you didn't need giveaways at the gate in order to fill the building. Attendance started bottoming out when they started cutting corners for the Rico Brognas, B.J. Surhoffs, Robert Ficks, and Albie Lopezes of the world, only to trot out their division banner seconds after (insert NL team here) stopped splashing champagne on each other in the middle of Turner Field when October rolled around.

And nope, wins in the regular season isn't going to guarantee success in the box office, especially when you continue to fail when it matters most. The playoffs is where a team makes its $$$ for the next season; that's where the 'sales pitch' is made for the upcoming regular season (no small wonder why the phone hasn't stopped ringing in the OKC ticket office after the Thunder pushed LA). You're not going to get anyone dialing the Hawks up to renew/buy season tickets after getting swept in consecutive seasons in record-setting fashion no less, even if they were 41-0 at home. If that wasn't the case, folks would've still been packing Turner Field long after the Cardinals and Astros finished beating on the Braves in the first round.

If the Hawks want to impress the masses to buy up tickets, they need to do something that they've never done before; not when Sweet Lou was playing here, not in John Drew's day, not in the Nique era, not when Smitty and Deke ran the show, and certainly not when Kruger and Stotts were in charge. They need to get to the ECFs and eventually the Finals. Unlike OKC, we've seen 50-win teams before; hell, we've seen division winning teams before. You know what they all have in common, even after 43 years? After the second round of the playoffs, they are all setting tee times and vacation cruises, while watching the rest of the postseason with you and me. Only after advancing to the EFCs and/or beyond should anyone from this forum, let alone their offices start piping up about attendance figures.

First and second round knockouts get old like stale Wonder bread, especially when you don't have a transcendent superstar to bring in those casual fans who'd otherwise drive off to Foot Locker, buy a Kobe/Wade/Lebron jersey, and cease to recognize that the home team exists until 'their guy' arrives in town, only to pose in their newly bought gear when a camera is within lightyears of them. That's how you get 5-7,000 Lebron fans magically appearing at Philips when the Cavs come in to play, only to never see them again after the game is over. But don't just take my word for it; ask Nique who a lot of their fans started rooting for after Kasten gave up on the Hawks contending after the '89 season. Most of them have their #23 jerseys still hanging up in their closets now.

GAME, SET, MATCH.

Edited May 18, 2010 by Dejay

[lethalweapon3]

I look at the 2003-04 (champion) and 2004-05 (runner-up) Pistons and can't imagine even they would've sold out here. It looks like there has to be a combination of two things, for the factors we've discussed (parking/traffic/access, demographics/income) to no longer matter.

To have a fanbase that will fill up Philips on a Wednesday night, against a 13-30 squad from Oklahoma City, in a down-pouring thunderstorm:

* You have to have a team that any fool can observe casually and see they're contenders to win something more than a division title.

* AND you have to have an iconic celebrity figure (Pistol, Nique, Chipper, Vick) as the leader, with a name that transcends the local media market.

~lw3

[Dejay]

I look at the 2003-04 (champion) and 2004-05 (runner-up) Pistons and can't imagine even they would've sold out here. It looks like there has to be a combination of two things, for the factors we've discussed (parking/traffic/access, demographics/income) to no longer matter.

To have a fanbase that will fill up Philips on a Wednesday night, against a 13-30 squad from Oklahoma City, in a down-pouring thunderstorm:

* You have to have a team that any fool can observe casually and see they're contenders to win something more than a division title.

* AND you have to have an iconic celebrity figure (Pistol, Nique, Chipper, Vick) as the leader, with a name that transcends the local media market.

~lw3

Thanks for putting my long diatribe in a shorter context. +1 for you....

[Sothron]

I like how you ignore that the owners increased ticket prices while the city of Atlanta had increasing unemployment numbers. Factors like that don't attribute to attendance numbers so we should just ignore them.

I'm not even bothering to read the rest of the thread because this just ended it. I love how people take numbers in a vacuum and ignore the economic realities around the cities. I haven't looked at the numbers but I'm sure Detroit is having a hard time getting fans in seats these days as well. Here's a hint: any state with double digit unemployment like Georgia is going to have a hard time getting people to pay overpriced (yes I said it) tickets.

[lethalweapon3]

Thanks for putting my long diatribe in a shorter context. +1 for you....

Thanks! I read yours after I posted and was like, "Dejay's got it covered already."

Teams looking to sell out here have to have both of those circumstances at the same time.

~lw3

[Buzzard]

Atl is not a sports town period! GT football is not doing any better than the Hawks/Braves. Honestly the City of Atlanta has too many people living below the poverty level to support professional sports. So awful traffic, poverty and crime makes Atl a difficult proposition for any sports team. Sad to say but if the teams want better results they may have to consider moving to North or South GA.

damn! I was thinking about adding a "What's your government name?" post.

.

.

Bobby Dodd stadium has a seating capacity of 55,000; Tech averaged 51.584 a game last season. Roughly 94% capacity.

Here is a direct quote from none other than a AJC/UGA fan site

"According to the NCAA figures, Georgia Tech ranked 40th in home attendance with an average of 51,584. That was an average increase of 4,095 over the previous season — the 12th largest increase in Division I, according to the NCAA."

Link: http://blogs.ajc.com/uga-sports-blog/2010/02/22/uga-ranks-no-6-in-nation-in-football-attendance/

The Hawks averaged 88% capacity.

To say GT football is not doing as well as the Hawks is clearly an opinion and not a fact.

Edited May 18, 2010 by Buzzard

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I look at the 2003-04 (champion) and 2004-05 (runner-up) Pistons and can't imagine even they would've sold out here. It looks like there has to be a combination of two things, for the factors we've discussed (parking/traffic/access, demographics/income) to no longer matter.

To have a fanbase that will fill up Philips on a Wednesday night, against a 13-30 squad from Oklahoma City, in a down-pouring thunderstorm:

* You have to have a team that any fool can observe casually and see they're contenders to win something more than a division title.

* AND you have to have an iconic celebrity figure (Pistol, Nique, Chipper, Vick) as the leader, with a name that transcends the local media market.

~lw3

What about filling up Philips . . on an early Sunday evening . . with good weather . . but we're playing Milwaukee? Does the same apply?

( Paid attendance at that game was 16,381 . . . but there is no way that more than 12 or 13,000 actually showed up )

You guys don't know it, but all of you are actually proving my point on if we are . . or even can be . . a "championship fan base". Basically, almost all of you are saying that the stars have to align perfectly, in order to see the fans to elevate their commitment and passion toward the Hawks.

Almost all of you are saying that we either have to bring in a superstar ( and not just any superstar . . . an electrifying one . . Tim Duncan in his prime wouldn't work in ATL, according to you guys ) . . . . . or we have to make a big time run in the playoffs ( get to the NBA Finals ) . . . . . in order for the fans to get to that next level of commitment.

Otherwise, fan apathy will always exist and people will find reasons to NOT go to games, instead of going to the game because they are Hawk fans and want to support the team.

That's why I asked the question I did. If such fan apathy exists, why expect management to go all out to put a championship product on the floor? People want management to spend whatever they can to construct a possible championship caliber team, even though the fan participation really haven't increased as the Hawks have gotten much better the past 2 years.

For Atlanta . . being good, isn't good enough . . even if we were horrible the 10 years previously. We have to be either good and exciting with a superstar player . . . or borderline great with a championship caliber team.

Simply being good and being relevant in the league again, isn't good enough, despite the long losing spell.

It is what it is I guess.

[lethalweapon3]

What about filling up Philips . . on an early Sunday evening . . with good weather . . but we're playing Milwaukee? Does the same apply?

( Paid attendance at that game was 16,381 . . . but there is no way that more than 12 or 13,000 actually showed up )

You've got it! That would be nice, too, to have a full arena. The same scenario applies. Otherwise to fill up Philips you have the "paid" attendance include corporate mercy-buys, Brandon Jennings fans, and folks selling tix for $0.09 online.

~lw3

[lethalweapon3]

That's why I asked the question I did. If such fan apathy exists, why expect management to go all out to put a championship product on the floor? People want management to spend whatever they can to construct a possible championship caliber team, even though the fan participation really haven't increased as the Hawks have gotten much better the past 2 years.

For Atlanta . . being good, isn't good enough . . even if we were horrible the 10 years previously. We have to be either good and exciting with a superstar player . . . or borderline great with a championship caliber team.

Simply being good and being relevant in the league again, isn't good enough, despite the long losing spell.

It is what it is I guess.

You've got it right. Atlanta's market is useful not for a Championship Team's fanbase, by itself, but for a Winning Icon Superstar fan base (Gretzky, not Kovalchuk). And the ASG knew this when they were assessing risks before they acquired the franchises. If we want to include LeBron in this group, they also know there are just three Winning Icon Superstars in the NBA (Kobe, Wade, LeBron), with apologies to the dour Duncan not being flashy enough to warrant the Icon label. So their approach with the Hawks has remained to build a decent basketball team, settle for what they've called "The Closest Thing To LeBron" to draw fans, and hope to stumble upon a W.I.S. through drafts that can bring the team over the top.

~lw3

[TheNorthCydeRises]

You've got it! That would be nice, too, to have a full arena. The same scenario applies. Otherwise to fill up Philips you have the "paid" attendance include corporate mercy-buys, Brandon Jennings fans, and folks selling tix for $0.09 online.

~lw3

LOL . . that's a damn shame then. That almost proves that we as a fan base are incapable of becoming a "championship caliber" one.

I'm saying all of this, by the way, because I don't think for one second that the ASG are going to hire Avery Johnson. And people should not be shocked if they choose not to hire him.

If by some miracle that they do, I'm really going to be interested if the fans will respond to that by going to more of the games. We've had a lot of excuses as to why people don't go, from traffic, to unemployment, to fan apathy, to ticket prices, etc. So we'll see if bringing in a named coach will help do the trick . . or if those excuses will continue, even if we continue to win.

[Buzzard]

LOL . . that's a damn shame then. That almost proves that we as a fan base are incapable of becoming a "championship caliber" one.

I'm saying all of this, by the way, because I don't think for one second that the ASG are going to hire Avery Johnson. And people should not be shocked if they choose not to hire him.

If by some miracle that they do, I'm really going to be interested if the fans will respond to that by going to more of the games. We've had a lot of excuses as to why people don't go, from traffic, to unemployment, to fan apathy, to ticket prices, etc. So we'll see if bringing in a named coach will help do the trick . . or if those excuses will continue, even if we continue to win.

A new coach aint going to get it done northcyde; not one that is on our short list so far anyway. You know this as well as I do. Owners would be much better off signing a promising assistant on the cheap and saving their money to bring in a high dollar player in a trade.

Unless their name is along the lines of Phil Jackson or Pat Riley et all, aint going to be a whole lot of local buzz concerning our new coach.

Edited May 18, 2010 by Buzzard

[lethalweapon3]

I'm saying all of this, by the way, because I don't think for one second that the ASG are going to hire Avery Johnson. And people should not be shocked if they choose not to hire him.

If by some miracle that they do, I'm really going to be interested if the fans will respond to that by going to more of the games. We've had a lot of excuses as to why people don't go, from traffic, to unemployment, to fan apathy, to ticket prices, etc. So we'll see if bringing in a named coach will help do the trick . . or if those excuses will continue, even if we continue to win.

I do envision ASG weighing Avery as a means to compensate for the lack of a W.I.S. Having his Napoleonic stature and serving as the unmistakable "voice" of the franchise, I think, would boost season ticket sales, although not necessarily game-day sales. That is, so long as his voice can be associated with winning basketball, not the voice of a Mavs team that couldn't get past the Warriors. I'm thinking of the Jerry Glanville effect for the Falcons, after the Swamp Fox was shown the door (helped to have Deion, though).

~lw3

[TheNorthCydeRises]

If your point is championship level play and players is what brings in the casual fans to fill arenas, spot on northcyde. The title is championship level fan base; kind of hard to build a fan base like that when you have never won a championship in the 40 plus years of being here.

84% average capacity is a pretty damn good following of hard core NBA fans IMO given the Hawks long standing record of dismal seasons followed with nothing better than 1st and 2nd round exits....

But that's just it. 84% capacity is not good. The 84% range is what .500 teams draw. Those teams will sell out when the big boys come through, because fans like to see those teams. But when it comes to watching their team vs an average or poor team, they don't show up.

Borderline playoff teams usually draw in the upper 80%. Solid playoff teams usually draw in the mid 90%. Elite or championship level teams usually draw close to 100% or even more than 100%.

Most of the fan bases around the league will go and support their team, if the team is at solid playoff level. The challenge for us as a fan base is this:

If we post another 50+ win season, can the Hawks draw at least 92% capacity or higher?

Because as important as performing in the playoffs are, you can't even get to the playoffs if you don't perform well during the regular season. And if you're not performing well during the regular season, the fans will stop coming anyway. So people just can't discount the regular season like it means nothing. It definitely means something. Performing well during the regular season is what will keep a fan base's interest during the season. Performing well during the playoffs is what will motivate fans to look forward to the following season,which makes postseason basketball vital as well.

[HawkItus]

Fan base, sman base. When Vick was here the dome sold out all the time. People in Atlanta pay for a good show and a star. Same as the Lakers fans. The ASG atlanta portion should of known this.

[Buzzard]

But that's just it. 84% capacity is not good. The 84% range is what .500 teams draw. Those teams will sell out when the big boys come through, because fans like to see those teams. But when it comes to watching their team vs an average or poor team, they don't show up.

Borderline playoff teams usually draw in the upper 80%. Solid playoff teams usually draw in the mid 90%. Elite or championship level teams usually draw close to 100% or even more than 100%.

Most of the fan bases around the league will go and support their team, if the team is at solid playoff level. The challenge for us as a fan base is this:

If we post another 50+ win season, can the Hawks draw at least 92% capacity or higher?

Because as important as performing in the playoffs are, you can't even get to the playoffs if you don't perform well during the regular season. And if you're not performing well during the regular season, the fans will stop coming anyway. So people just can't discount the regular season like it means nothing. It definitely means something. Performing well during the regular season is what will keep a fan base's interest during the season. Performing well during the playoffs is what will motivate fans to look forward to the following season,which makes postseason basketball vital as well.

Its 88% that we draw and I deleted that post because my editing rights had expired. I do not know if we can get to 92 by just hiring a new coach but 90 is possible. Two 2nd round sweeps are not going to help matters as far as your other bolded point. From my perspective being a hard core fan, second round sweeps are not far removed from borderline playoff teams and 1st round exits.

Lets face it, we did not compete in any of those two 2nd round playoff series and a banged up Bucks team with well over 20 million in cap not playing ( Bogut and Redd) took us to the limits in the 1st round. I think 90% is more than acceptable if all we do is resign JJ and hire a new coach. That is not exactly improving our team by leaps and bounds. Its just staying pat player wise and hopefully getting a coach who can steal a 2nd round game or two.

Edited May 18, 2010 by Buzzard

[Dejay]

For Atlanta . . being good, isn't good enough . . even if we were horrible the 10 years previously. We have to be either good and exciting with a superstar player . . . or borderline great with a championship caliber team.

You've finally seen it my way (well, maybe not). Being good without substanance (i.e. banners that matter) ISN'T good enough in this town. Watching the Braves get folded up in the playoffs like a fajita in front of empty seats at Turner Field should've made that message loud and clear years ago; obviously, the Hawks didn't get that memo.

You may want folks revved up like they get in one-horse towns like Sacramento, OKC, Salt Lake, San Antonio, and Portland where the NBA has no competition to speak of and any carrot of 'success' stokes the fire but you have to bring more to the table than just being good in the regular season here. But contrary to popular belief, this 'phenomenon' of wanting more for your sports/entertainment $$$ isn't just an Atlanta thing; the New Jersey Nets went to consecutive NBA Finals several years ago, yet they didn't average 16k a game either season. How much did we hear about the empties up there? I don't recall anyone from their ownership group going to the media to whine, b*tch, and moan about the terrible Net fans for not showing up. You mean to tell me that those two Eastern conference titles weren't good enough for those folks up there? Don't the Nets have just as putrid a history, if not more so, than the Hawks do? After all, don't they have the New York market to drive up ticket sales? Isn't that supposed to be a 'basketball hotbed' up there? If that had been Atlanta, we would've heard the national media howling from here to Timbuktu for the Hawks to be relocated to Kansas City, Vegas, or Seattle.

Speaking of being good, I've been to other places as well. I've been to Chicago, LA, Philly, and a few other NBA towns to see how things go there. Do you know what I see when I look up in the rafters of those buildings? BANNERS. Just about every NBA city I've been to has recollections of their team getting to a conference finals or even winning a title. Even long-suffering fans in Oakland can look up in the Oracle Center, see that world title hanging up in the rafters and harken back to better times and hopes for a return to the good 'ol days. That's what keeps the coals hot in places like Milwaukee, Houston, and Washington; the hopes that one day, their good times will return because after all, they've been there before. But here? Our finest hour is etched by a guarantee from the opposing player; in round two.

Got a question for you; would 8-5 be good enough at UGA, Tennessee, LSU, Florida, Alabama, or Tech? No need to respond because we all know the answer (but if you don't believe me, just ask Jim Donnan how well 8-5 worked out for him in Athens). Got a better one; do you think any of those fanbases would care less about how bad they had it before 8-5 came along? Again, no need to respond because we all know the answer (and again, Jim Donnan can attest to that too).

So let me see if I get this straight; the Nets play around a much bigger population base and media market, go to the Finals in consecutive seasons, yet fail to bring in more than 16k a game? Yet folks here are upset because it isn't standing-room only to see the Hawks, who never got past the second round in their entire Atlanta existence, get records set for futility in a four-game sweep?

Interesting....

Edited May 18, 2010 by Dejay

[TheNorthCydeRises]

You've finally seen it my way (well, maybe not). Being good without substanance (i.e. banners that matter) ISN'T good enough in this town. Watching the Braves get folded up in the playoffs like a fajita in front of empty seats at Turner Field should've made that message loud and clear years ago; obviously, the Hawks didn't get that memo.

You may want folks revved up like they get in one-horse towns like Sacramento, OKC, Salt Lake, San Antonio, and Portland where the NBA has no competition to speak of and any carrot of 'success' stokes the fire but you have to bring more to the table than just being good in the regular season here. But contrary to popular belief, this 'phenomenon' of wanting more for your sports/entertainment $$$ isn't just an Atlanta thing; the New Jersey Nets went to consecutive NBA Finals several years ago, yet they didn't average 16k a game either season. How much did we hear about the empties up there? I don't recall anyone from their ownership group going to the media to whine, b*tch, and moan about the terrible Net fans for not showing up. You mean to tell me that those two Eastern conference titles weren't good enough for those folks up there? Don't the Nets have just as putrid a history, if not more so, than the Hawks do? After all, don't they have the New York market to drive up ticket sales? Isn't that supposed to be a 'basketball hotbed' up there? If that had been Atlanta, we would've heard the national media howling from here to Timbuktu for the Hawks to be relocated to Kansas City, Vegas, or Seattle.

Speaking of being good, I've been to other places as well. I've been to Chicago, LA, Philly, and a few other NBA towns to see how things go there. Do you know what I see when I look up in the rafters of those buildings? BANNERS. Just about every NBA city I've been to has recollections of their team getting to a conference finals or even winning a title. Even long-suffering fans in Oakland can look up in the Oracle Center, see that world title hanging up in the rafters and harken back to better times and hopes for a return to the good 'ol days. That's what keeps the coals hot in places like Milwaukee, Houston, and Washington; the hopes that one day, their good times will return because after all, they've been there before. But here? Our finest hour is etched by a guarantee from the opposing player; in round two.

Got a question for you; would 8-5 be good enough at UGA, Tennessee, LSU, Florida, Alabama, or Tech? No need to respond because we all know the answer (but if you don't believe me, just ask Jim Donnan how well 8-5 worked out for him in Athens). Got a better one; do you think any of those fanbases would care less about how bad they had it before 8-5 came along? Again, no need to respond because we all know the answer (and again, Jim Donnan can attest to that too).

So let me see if I get this straight; the Nets play around a much bigger population base and media market, go to the Finals in consecutive seasons, yet fail to bring in more than 16k a game? Yet folks here are upset because it isn't standing-room only to see the Hawks, who never got past the second round in their entire Atlanta existence, get records set for futility in a four-game sweep?

Interesting....

Nope . . I'm just wondering why we didn't see an uptick in interest across the fan base, despite this team improving from not even reaching .500 for 8 years, to being a top 10 team in the league all last year. Attendance wise, the Hawks were basically viewed in the same way as those 37 win Hawks teams. No uptick, despite us being a top 4 team in the East from wire to wire.

But now, people want management to invest heavily into the team to make it a championship level team? And even if we become legit, someone will have to be at least a borderline superstar to bring in more fans . . because ATLiens need winning + a superstar to keep their interest?

But then again, maybe that was what's wrong with those Nets NBA Finals teams that you cited. The strength of those teams was defense. Their star player was Jason Kidd, a passing the ball star. The rest of that team consisted of good players. And although neither squad was a great team ( 52 and 49 wins ), they were good enough in a rapidly declining East to get to the Finals.

That team, while good, wasn't enough to keep the interest of the NETS fan base. Management did its job though. They constructed a winner. The fans didn't come out still, so they tried to acquire a "box office" draw in Vince Carter. As the team still didn't win, and with them in serious luxury tax land, they had to break it completely down to the bone.

Management did their job in constructing a postseason winner. But the fans still didn't support the team like they should. They weren't a championship caliber fan base.

As for your SEC team analogy, you're right. As a U of Tennessee Alumni, I defenitely know that 8 - 5 is damn near UNACCEPTABLE in Knoxville. Even 9 - 4 puts people on edge.

But the Hawks, with their history of losing, is more comparable to the Ole Miss Rebels, than they are to the powerhouses of the SEC. At Ole Miss . . 8 - 5 sparks the fan base, especially if they pull off a big win at home. 8 - 5 gives hope that all of those past 4 - 8 . . 6 - 6 seasons, can be put into the closet. You could say the same thing about programs like Kentucky, Mississippi St, and Vanderbilt. Those fan bases see a tremendous increase in support, when they play close to the level of the big boys.

There are no banners in Philips, and probably won't unless the Hawks get extremely lucky with a trade, a draft pick, or the development of a player into a superstar.

[Guest]

Nope . . I'm just wondering why we didn't see an uptick in interest across the fan base, despite this team improving from not even reaching .500 for 8 years, to being a top 10 team in the league all last year. Attendance wise, the Hawks were basically viewed in the same way as those 37 win Hawks teams. No uptick, despite us being a top 4 team in the East from wire to wire.

When you completely ignore the supply side of the equation, then you are left wondering why hasn't attendance increased even though performance did increase? Accounting for the ASG's pricing scheme along with rising unemployment and decreasing wages due to the recession account for why attendance doesn't spike. Its not that hard if you think about the whole picture. But thats where you are lacking, you are only looking at fans and then complaining. Take a step back, you are focused on the trees and not the forest.

[Dejay]

As for your SEC team analogy, you're right. As a U of Tennessee Alumni, I defenitely know that 8 - 5 is damn near UNACCEPTABLE in Knoxville. Even 9 - 4 puts people on edge.

But the Hawks, with their history of losing, is more comparable to the Ole Miss Rebels, than they are to the powerhouses of the SEC. At Ole Miss . . 8 - 5 sparks the fan base, especially if they pull off a big win at home. 8 - 5 gives hope that all of those past 4 - 8 . . 6 - 6 seasons, can be put into the closet. You could say the same thing about programs like Kentucky, Mississippi St, and Vanderbilt. Those fan bases see a tremendous increase in support, when they play close to the level of the big boys.

There are no banners in Philips, and probably won't unless the Hawks get extremely lucky with a trade, a draft pick, or the development of a player into a superstar.

As a fellow UT alumnus, I also know that 8-5 will only buy you enough time to find a new coordinator or two if a side of the ball is lacking. Two or three in a row and well, you might want to get your resume on Careerbuilders updated.

And I think the Ole Miss analogy is a good one, except there is one little factor that many miss; the Braves. That's right, the Braves' lack of postseason success over the last decade plus have ruined sports fans here forever. Because of them flopping to nearly every Tom, d*ck, and Harry in October, now every team here is evaluated based on what is done in the playoffs. Think of the last 50-win Hawk squad that was here before the Braves turned good (1988-89). I was a season ticket holder then and I assure you, they didn't have a problem selling seats. But now, the entire fanbase judges a season based on what's done after the final regular season game (well, unless you were predicted not to be in the playoffs like the 2008 Falcons and folks like me were still pissy about them losing to the Cardinals).

[Joker]

Comparing SEC Football to NBA Basketball in Atlanta is nuts. Different fanbase, no one attended Atlanta Hawks University and a completely different sport.