Josh Smith and Al Horford gets no credit from this board!

[Chinky_eyed_hawk]

Josh Smith is not a legit 10 PF ....please

Amare

Bosh

Boozer

Duncan

Gasol

Dirk

Aldridge

Zack

now you want to group Lee, Josh, West , Jamison ..so be it you can argue those out for top 10

Amare... Is a better offensive threat but on the defensive end <Josh

Bosh> True PF.. yes > Josh

Boozer= Josh IMO

Duncan??? He's on the decline so are we talking about the Duncan of 5+yrs ago or the one from the past two years? Also is one of the best PF of all time.. hard to hold a measuring stick to that.

Gasol.. yeah yeah 7 footer > Josh

Dirk> Josh offensively but once again... on the defensive end..leaves a lot to want for.

Aldridge <Josh

Zack=Josh.... headcases

Point is... Josh is one of those rare players that can literally give you 20pg, 5+rebs, 2+ Steals, 2 Blocks,4+ Asst.

With that being said, you find very few players, PF/SF that can give you that kind of production on both ends of the floor on a nightly basis. Comparing someone like Stoudamire who has the ball fed to him from a HOF pg, and is a offensive focal point is like apples and oranges at this point.

[lethalweapon3]

Josh and Al should be seeking "credit" from their NBA peers and coaches. And by all indications, when they're focused and playing well, they get that.

Whatever "credit" they get from fans, newspaper columnists, bloggers, and online board posters is nice, but if that is the fuel that motivates them, they would be mortally misguided.

~lw3

[RedDawg#8]

The thing is that the way both played at the BEGINNING of last season up until the 2nd half of the Thanksgiving game against Orl, nobody could complain about either of them. They were dominating during that period. So the potential for them to be great as a 4/5 duo is very real. What happened after that tho? im not sure but what is obvious is that:

Both are All-Star caliber at their current positions

Both are young

Both can be the face of the franchise

But

Both are PF's

Neither is a true C

Neither is a true SF

So thats where the "trade one for a stud PG, SF, or C" argument comes from. So then the debate is which one, and ppl have their reasons for both

Honestly, im in favor of Al over Josh mainly because of the maturity. Ppl say how Josh IS our defense or he is the emotional leader, but I believe that he holds us back as a whole until he decides to actually focus and get his head in the game. Thats why we play better when he is on, not because he is that good, but because 5 players are finally working as 1. If he wasnt a head case, he would be amazing but its about to be year 7 and he has shown no sign of maturity. How long do we except the "guilty pleasure" of a guy who dunks and blocks shots but continues to take bad shots, argues with refs while the other team is scoring, cant hit a free throw when it counts, and goofs off in practice and during the game.

Dont get me wrong, if we can I would keep both and try to bring a 3rd big who is a stud to play in a rotation with them (which i what i think the ASG wants to do), but when the argument is trade 1 keep 1, I choose Al over Smoove whole-heartedly. Smith has Shawn Kemps potential with Artest's/Rasheed's maturity. Look how long it took for either of them to get a ring. Josh is about 5 years from that point.

[RedDawg#8]

As I watch the Atlanta Dream, I am convinced that our froncourt deficiency isnt a matter of skill or size. Our players just have "get after it" on the glass. point blank. Ask Dejuan Blair and Chuck Hayes. These guys just flat out get after it. They believe that the ball belongs to them no matter who they are facing. The only size we need to improve on our team is the size of their heart.

[gsuteke]

If they were truly top ten at there positions we wouldnt have to resign Joe simply to make the playoffs . Something is wrong if in the NBA you think you have a top ten PF AND C and yet cant get out of the second rd .

The nba is a guard driven league right now.

[Swiftkick]

The nba is a guard driven league right now.

Disagree..Kobe aint winning a ring without Gasol or the likes of Shaq

Spurs won a championships cause of Duncan

Pistons won cause of team length

Its nice to have that star guard Wade,Kobe, but they need that big man to win..

Durant aint winning a chip till he gets that force inside as well

[gsuteke]

Disagree..Kobe aint winning a ring without Gasol or the likes of Shaq

Spurs won a championships cause of Duncan

Pistons won cause of team length

Its nice to have that star guard Wade,Kobe, but they need that big man to win..

Durant aint winning a chip till he gets that force inside as well

Gasol couldn't make the playoffs without kobe.

Wade carried his team on his back to a title.

Both pistons and spurs had elite backcourts when they won titles with manu and parker plus big shot billups and rip hamilton.

You just argued yourself out of the discussion.

Besides you totally miss the quote "the nba is a guard driven league right now."

You are trying to make a ten year old argument.

I'm living in the is which is an nba that has changed significantly since the hand check rule was changed.

You're living in the was.

You used to be able to get away with murder on defense, now the guard gets the call in the lane. The nba is a guard driven league now.

[HawksFan87]

let's not get carried away, Gasol was so-so in the playoffs.

[Swiftkick]

Gasol couldn't make the playoffs without kobe.

Wade carried his team on his back to a title.

Both pistons and spurs had elite backcourts when they won titles with manu and parker plus big shot billups and rip hamilton.

You just argued yourself out of the discussion.

Besides you totally miss the quote "the nba is a guard driven league right now."

You are trying to make a ten year old argument.

I'm living in the is which is an nba that has changed significantly since the hand check rule was changed.

You're living in the was.

You used to be able to get away with murder on defense, now the guard gets the call in the lane. The nba is a guard driven league now.

It works both ways I agree but if you dont have those big men your not winning a chip..Josh Smith/Al Horford imo are not championship big men

but neither is Joe Johnson at guard..

Guard driven league is cause the stars basically all played guard and the LACK of dominating big men is missing like it once was but this is BIG MANS league still til date ..Your not winning coming playoff time if you dont have the bigs inside..

Why do you think none of the ALL TIME GREAT point guards the NBA has ever seen not win a title

Jason Kidd, Steve Nash are arguably in the top 7 greatest point guards in NBA history and they will go ringless cause teams went up against the BIG MEN

[Swiftkick]

let's not get carried away, Gasol was so-so in the playoffs.

wait wat ?? Gasol should have won finals MVP .. he has 1 below avg game

23 &14

25 &8

21&6

13&10

12&12

17&13

19&18

[RedDawg#8]

Wait, which is the beloew avg game?lol Those are good numbers across the board, if he wasnt scoring he was rebounding, if he didnt rebound he scored 20+. Id take that performance from Smoove for the season: 19 pts 11 reb avg

[TheNorthCydeRises]

As I watch the Atlanta Dream, I am convinced that our froncourt deficiency isnt a matter of skill or size. Our players just have "get after it" on the glass. point blank. Ask Dejuan Blair and Chuck Hayes. These guys just flat out get after it. They believe that the ball belongs to them no matter who they are facing. The only size we need to improve on our team is the size of their heart.

That's the truth.

The Hawks for the most part are a soft basketball team. And when Horford and Smoove go up against big frontlines, that's when you'll see a lot of their flaws come out. If they are to stay together, they have to play a lot tougher.

And I know people will say that others have to play tougher, and that's true. But it's gonna be Smoove and Al in the trenches the vast majority of the time. So the toughness issue is really more about them than anyone else.

[AHF]

As I watch the Atlanta Dream, I am convinced that our froncourt deficiency isnt a matter of skill or size. Our players just have "get after it" on the glass. point blank. Ask Dejuan Blair and Chuck Hayes. These guys just flat out get after it. They believe that the ball belongs to them no matter who they are facing. The only size we need to improve on our team is the size of their heart.

This would be a fantastic chick flick trailer.

Al Horford was a talented young PF/C for the Hawks who sometimes couldn't find the strength to battle bigger men night in and night out. [image of Howard pushing Horford around] When Josh Smith was good he was among the best in basketball but sometimes he lost his way. [images of Josh shooting a three and then failing to get up the floor on D against Orlando] Some people said they were just too small to succeed. [images of Josh and Horford together]

This summer, experience the journey of two men finding the will to rebound and the will to defend. Josh Smith and Al Horford had all the gifts in the world. The only size they needed to improve on was the size of their heart.

[ATLBob]

This would be a fantastic chick flick trailer.

Al Horford was a talented young PF/C for the Hawks who sometimes couldn't find the strength to battle bigger men night in and night out. [image of Howard pushing Horford around] When Josh Smith was good he was among the best in basketball but sometimes he lost his way. [images of Josh shooting a three and then failing to get up the floor on D against Orlando] Some people said they were just too small to succeed. [images of Josh and Horford together]

This summer, experience the journey of two men finding the will to rebound and the will to defend. Josh Smith and Al Horford had all the gifts in the world. The only size they needed to improve on was the size of their heart.

Wow.

Just ... WOW.

[JTB]

As I watch the Atlanta Dream, I am convinced that our froncourt deficiency isnt a matter of skill or size. Our players just have "get after it" on the glass. point blank. Ask Dejuan Blair and Chuck Hayes. These guys just flat out get after it. They believe that the ball belongs to them no matter who they are facing. The only size we need to improve on our team is the size of their heart.

wow this was worded so well and is so true. My eyes have been open! Smoove and Horford must play with some damn Heart! no excuses about damn size anymore! deal wit it!

+1,000

[BusBoyIsBack]

If they were truly top ten at there positions we wouldnt have to resign Joe simply to make the playoffs . Something is wrong if in the NBA you think you have a top ten PF AND C and yet cant get out of the second rd .

Well we underachieved because Orlando was a bad matchup for us and because having a top 10 player at your position is not the same as having a #1 player overall at their position. Superstars win titles. Only exception is when you have collection of all-stars.

For this team to win the title again that's why we need someone like Teague to emerge as like a top 5-10 PG.

Then combine that with a Top 5 SG in Joe Johnson and Top 10 Front Court players in Josh and Horford and we would be good enough to win it all even though we wouldn't have a top 5 overall guy.

[BusBoyIsBack]

Wait, which is the beloew avg game?lol Those are good numbers across the board, if he wasnt scoring he was rebounding, if he didnt rebound he scored 20+. Id take that performance from Smoove for the season: 19 pts 11 reb avg

Exactly. Gasol led the Lakers in win shares in the playoffs and was neck and neck with Kobe in PER. This is a STAR driven league. Has nothing to do with position. Boston beat LA in 2008 because Garnett was a 1st team All-NBA type of player. He's since declined.

And again the only way to overcome not having that top 5 player is if you have a collection of top notch players at their position like the Pistons did in 2004. Or honestly what the Celtics did this past season.

For us to do that, we need Teague to reach his absolute full potential