Since we know Levinson reads the board...

[ATL_BALLER]

...and did kindly invite us a couple of years ago to a discounted game, I wonder what he thinks of our comments.

Bruce, if you're out there, will you please drop in and address our chief concerns, namely the lack of post-JJ aggression/creativity and player accountability after the Orlando quit job they pulled?

SIDE NOTE: Like many of you, I did take Bruce up on the game offer, and will never forget him visiting the section and yelling "Where's Diesel?"; admittedly, I too was disappointed that the ever-elusive Big D didn't show.

[Uuus]

...and did kindly invite us a couple of years ago to a discounted game, I wonder what he thinks of our comments.

Bruce, if you're out there, will you please drop in and address our chief concerns, namely the lack of post-JJ aggression/creativity and player accountability after the Orlando quit job they pulled?

SIDE NOTE: Like many of you, I did take Bruce up on the game offer, and will never forget him visiting the section and yelling "Where's Diesel?"; admittedly, I too was disappointed that the ever-elusive Big D didn't show.

Bruce--I hope you have Sund working on getting CP3 to the ATL!!!

[Diesel]

...and did kindly invite us a couple of years ago to a discounted game, I wonder what he thinks of our comments.

Bruce, if you're out there, will you please drop in and address our chief concerns, namely the lack of post-JJ aggression/creativity and player accountability after the Orlando quit job they pulled?

SIDE NOTE: Like many of you, I did take Bruce up on the game offer, and will never forget him visiting the section and yelling "Where's Diesel?"; admittedly, I too was disappointed that the ever-elusive Big D didn't show.

That was during better financial times. Would you continue to visit a site where people are calling you cheap, novice, and other harsh terms when you are douling out Millions of Dollars in a stagnant economy? Here is not where he should be right now. Right now, he should be trying to get Stephen Rollins and his group to sign on the dotted line.

[niremetal]

Why are they raising ticket prices and then complaining about the fans?

Link?

[niremetal]

http://blogs.ajc.com/hawks/2010/05/19/atlanta-hawks-why-j-j-may-be-more-worth-more-than-you-think-to-the-hawks/

You deserve the fans? For what? Raising ticket prices during a recession and complaining that you aren't getting enough support?

Fair enough. Frankly, I think there's a difference between calling on the fans to support the team in the future and complaining about how the fans have responded in the past; I think the quotes you cited are the former rather than the latter. But I won't deny that your interpretation is a reasonable one.

[Buzzard]

That was back when we were in full support of their battle against the Evil Belkin. Now its just them shouldering the brunt for playoff dissappointments, selling draft picks, and low profile FA signings in the most active FA market in years. And even though we signed JJ, this FA period is still disappointing.

Do you think they will ever come to grips with this thought....Keeping your core 1 through 9 is not the same as improving your core 1 through 9.

Edited July 23, 2010 by Buzzard

[niremetal]

If you read the paragraphs before the quote, Gearon is talking about the finances of the team and whether they will go into the luxury tax. I think its naive to think he is calling for "support" like a High School basketball team. He is calling for more revenue, "if more fans show up and we generate more revenue then we can go into the luxury tax." It appears to me he is either not realizing simple economics (if you raise prices holding everything constant, then people demand less...and if you assume that demand is elastic then revenue will fall) or he is insulting consumers for not consuming more. What business in their right mind does either of these?

I think you're oversimplifying the economics more than a little bit. Lots of industries raise prices even in elastic markets in order to increase revenues. The theory when doing so is that the lower total unit sales will be more than offset by the extra revenue generated per unit. By my math, the gamble appeared to pay off for the Hawks: Attendance only dropped by just over 1% although ticket prices increased by more than 10%, if memory serves. You can't seriously think that raising prices is inherently irrational, even during a recession.

Edited July 23, 2010 by niremetal

[Sothron]

That was back when we were in full support of their battle against the Evil Belkin. Now its just them shouldering the brunt for playoff dissappointments, selling draft picks, and low profile FA signings in the most active FA market in years. And even though we signed JJ, this FA period is still disappointing.

Do you think they will ever come to grips with this thought....Keeping your core 1 through 9 is not the same as improving your core 1 through 9.

But we resigned JASON COLLINS Buzzard! Surely that counts as the veteran starting quality center Sund said he was trying to get. Right?

:help wanted3:

The ASG deserves every bit of criticism it gets from both Hawks and esp. Thrasher fans.

[NJHAWK]

http://blogs.ajc.com/hawks/2010/05/19/atlanta-hawks-why-j-j-may-be-more-worth-more-than-you-think-to-the-hawks/

You deserve the fans? For what? Raising ticket prices during a recession and complaining that you aren't getting enough support?

For trying like hell to get Josh Powell in here, thats what.

[Yeti]

That was during better financial times. Would you continue to visit a site where people are calling you cheap, novice, and other harsh terms when you are douling out Millions of Dollars in a stagnant economy?

The customers are complaining. It's like any other business. You have to be able to listen to the criticism in order to make your business better. The best companies are looking for every opportunity to improve, they are desperate for any negative feedback because it helps them continue to get better. The worst feel overwhelmed and don't want to hear about any more problems - then they go into a death spiral. Much of the income the ASG does make comes from customers like us - except maybe we are a little noisier. So, yes, I would probably look at these sites to find out how their product is perceived by the customers. I hope they do.

[niremetal]

No, elastic demand implies that a %change in price is less than %change in quantity (in absolute value). What you are describing is an inelastic demand which implies a %change in price is greater than %change in quantity (in absolute value).

I don't think you are looking at the correct numbers and even if you were thats flawed logic. What you want is paid attendance, not straight up attendance. And also, if the average ticket price increases by 10% but attendance only drops 1% this does not imply revenue has increased. Ticket prices are not equal across seats. What we could have seen is everyone who used to buy $35 tickets (now $38.50) now purchase $10 tickets (now $11) and a few people who used to buy $10 drop out of the market to result in a 1% drop in attendance. In this case, total revenue decreases even though the average ticket price increased by more than the decrease in quantity. Why not just skip all this nonsense and actually find what we want, revenue from ticket sales. Find that, make sure its in real terms, and then compare this year with last year.

Given the vast number of substitutes for Atlanta Hawks basketball in this city, its hard to imagine that demand for Hawks tickets is inelastic. But thats what you are implying. Given elastic demand, it is irrational to increase prices regardless of recession or not. But because its in a recession, the effects are magnified.

If PED is greater than 1, you're right. And I should have said "markets that have some elasticity" rather than "elastic markets." As I'm sure you know, elasticity is a measure with an infinite number of possible values, and is not an all-or-nothing thing. But...

1) I don't think that there are any reasonably close substitutes for Atlanta Hawks basketball in Atlanta. The consumers of NBA basketball certainly overlap with those of other sports and entertainment sources. So I don't think the market is as elastic as you think.

2) The product being sold last year was not the same as the product being sold in 2008-2009. With the addition of Crawford and coming off the best record in a decade, it was a better product. It certainly wasn't apples and apples, and the difference in quality (along with the advent of the recession) are both huge unknown variables pulling in opposite directions, so the elasticity measure is pretty tough to quantify.

In any case, much as we might like to think that we know more about the economics of pro sports (rather than classical economic theories) better than the guys in the ASG office who do it for a living, something tells me we do not. I've learned from experience that most of the people who greatly increase their real wealth over the course of their life generally have a better intuitive sense of these things than schmucks like me (and, presumably, you) whose exposure is more academic than real.

[Swatguy]

But we resigned JASON COLLINS Buzzard! Surely that counts as the veteran starting quality center Sund said he was trying to get. Right?

:help wanted3:

The ASG deserves every bit of criticism it gets from both Hawks and esp. Thrasher fans.

Jason Collins has been resigned ?

[HawksFan87]

Uhmm if he took the advice of a bunch of fans from a messageboard on how to run his team. I would question him more then, than I already do right now lol..

[lethalweapon3]

Bruce, if you're reading this for suggestions, I have three words:

PLUMPER HOT DOGS!

~lw3

[WraithSentinel]

I don't think Bruce has come around here in several years. I think it started around the time Chill was lost to Greece.

[Buzzard]

Given the vast number of substitutes for Atlanta Hawks basketball in this city, its hard to imagine that demand for Hawks tickets is inelastic. But thats what you are implying. Given elastic demand, it is irrational to increase prices regardless of recession or not. But because its in a recession, the effects are magnified.

In order to improve apon this they must create a buzz. Marketing and signing/trading for a big name player. Signing the same big name player we already had is not creating that buzz. Gearon is missing the point completely by thinking that staying pat, not improving apon a product that experiences 2nd round sweeps is what gets sports fans (customers) excited.

Furthermore the easiest way to garner new customers for the same product is to market and offer discounts, not increase prices. Anyone who does not get this is ignoring all the coupons put out by food chains in the paper and sales flyers that they see everyday. The Atlanta entertainment business is just as competitive as the local fast food/restaurant business. Gearon and company must not have a very good background in either.

All they really have to do is look at what Blank did with his nose bleed 10 dollar seats. He has a retail marketing background second to none and used it to his full advantage. Ted Turner, dispite his quirkiness, also understood marketing/advertising as well as any owner in baseball or basketball and used that to his advantage. I think our owners backgrounds are in real estate or something and it shows.

They really are clueless as to how to sell a product that needs selling. Real esate and its market, good or bad, sells itself.

Edited July 23, 2010 by Buzzard

[BudBall]

A buzz definetly needs to be created. No one is very excited about this same ol crew. Even if it's monta Ellis or arenas...ect

(flame shield up)