Broussard of ESPN just said Hawks are frontrunner for signing Shaq

[Swatguy]

So, basically you are saying that we should make personnel decisions based on ticket sells and merchandising rather than basing the decisions on whether it will help the team win, which Shaq doesn't do.

Pardon me, 'Cyde gives Qualifiable, undisputable assertions based on truth and logic and you throws your twist (rather than basing the decisions on whether it will help the team win, which Shaq doesn't do.) which is biased BS. There is no question that the Hawks would be better with Shaq than without Shaq. Just listen to what the players are saying, Al says, I need help. Looking over his shoulder with Shaq is what he is saying. Josh gushes at the mere notion of getting Sthaq. Joe advocates for the cause.

Chiiiiiiiiittt. It is a No-Brainer, unlest your brain is not fully engaged.

)

[Buzzard]

So, basically you are saying that we should make personnel decisions based on ticket sells and merchandising rather than basing the decisions on whether it will help the team win, which Shaq doesn't do.

I think what he is saying is we should base those decisons on what we know about the player more than just on one stat that you think supports your whole point of view. IMO you are reaching here and about to fall off a cliff.

Your other point about Shaq being a locker room cancer that cannot be overcome is kind of mute also. Shaq only hindered his ex teams significantly on his way out. Obviously it was not to bad while he was there since he has helped win NBA championships with two different teams. No doubt Shaq leaves, just like he arrives, with a bang. I also find it a little strange that you stated its ok to sign this so called locker room cancer for the vet minimum but not for the MLE.

You are shocking me KB with your Shaq hate; its almost like the Bron hate going on in Cleveland right now. But not nearly as justified IMO.

Edited July 27, 2010 by Buzzard

[niremetal]

There is no question that the Hawks would be better with Shaq than without Shaq. Just listen to what the players are saying, Al says, I need help. Looking over his shoulder with Shaq is what he is saying. Josh gushes at the mere notion of getting Sthaq. Joe advocates for the cause.

Yeah, and good players have always proven to be such adept GMs.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

This is why they have a stat called WS/48, which measures your individual contribution to team wins on a per minute basis. Guess what. Zaza has a higher WS/48 than Shaq. Zaza is 18th in the NBA among centers with a 0.121 WS/48. Shaq is 20th with a 0.119 WS/48. Once again, Atlanta doesn't gain anything relative to wins by adding Shaq and diminishing Zaza's playing time.

PER is a nice stat, but it is flawed because it puts too much emphasis on scoring and not enough on rebounding and defense.

Also, per 36 numbers definitely tell you more than the standard per game numbers, but if you want to go there, then Randolph Morris averaged 18.0 P/36 and 11.0 R/36 last year, and he also had 2.4 combined blocks + steals per 36 minutes last year. So, if you want to use Shaq's per 36 averages as a sign that he still is a strong player, then we might as well bring Randolph back and just give him more playing time.

Well let's put it to the test KB. It's not like this isn't easy to look up. I'll go through the playoff teams, and let you and other decide if that player contributed more to wins, vs what the win share/48 stat tells you who actually did according to their stat.

ATLANTA

Mario West: .106

Mike Bibby: .104

BOSTON

Shelden Williams: .162

Rajon Rondo: .156

Kendrick Perkins: .117

CHARLOTTE

Derrick Brown: .114

Boris Diaw: .113

CHICAGO

Acie Law: .101

Derrick Rose: .100

John Salmons: .092 ( while he was in Chicago )

CLEVELAND

JJ Hickson: .123

Antwan Jamison: .122

Shaquille O'Neal: .119

DALLAS

Rodrique Beaubois: .134

Jason Terry: .123

DENVER

Chris Andersen: .166

Carmelo Anthony: .145

LA LAKERS

Pau Gasol: .220

Andrew Bynum: .180

Kobe Bryant: .160

Sasha Vujucic: .120

Ron Artest: .098

MILWAUKEE

Luke Ridnour: .168

John Salmons: .165

Brandon Jennings: .075

MIAMI

Dorrell Wright: .137

Udonis Haslem: .132

OKLAHOMA CITY

James Harden: .124

Russell Westbrook: .105

ORLANDO

Marcin Gortat: .151

Rashard Lewis: .132

Jameer Nelson: .130

PORTLAND

Nicolas Batum: .181

Brandon Roy: .180

Andre Miller: .134

PHOENIX

Louis Amundson: .118

Grant Hill: .109

SAN ANTONIO

Matt Bonner: .153

George Hill: .142

Tony Parker: .101

UTAH

Kyle Korver: .130

Wesley Matthews: .108

So does the win share tell the absolute truth? Or can it be disputed? LOL . . . can it be HEAVILY disputed?

When you look at stats, you pretty much have to look at everything. Because there's not one stat that will tell you all you need to know about a player. You pretty much have to look at everything from all angles, to make an educated assessment of what that player has the ability to do, and what his worth to a team is. To think that the "win shares" stat isn't as flawed as any other stat, is simply not being honest. Like all stats, it does give you some idea of what is going on. But it is NOT the end all . . be all.

[Sothron]

I think what he is saying is we should base those decisons on what we know about the player more than just on one stat that you think supports your whole point of view. IMO you are reaching here and about to fall off a cliff.

Your other point about Shaq being a locker room cancer that cannot be overcome is kind of mute also. Shaq only hindered his ex teams significantly on his way out. Obviously it was not to bad while he was there since he has helped win NBA championships with two different teams. No doubt Shaq leaves, just like he arrives, with a bang. I also find it a little strange that you stated its ok to sign this so called locker room cancer for the vet minimum but not for the MLE.

You are shocking me KB with your Shaq hate; its almost like the Bron hate going on in Cleveland right now. But not nearly as justified IMO.

Buzzard usually we are in agreement but not on this. Shaq's problems with teams isn't just when he leaves. He had a public war with Kobe, he was critical of Penny back in Orlando days while on the team, he was such a cancer in Phoenix that Steve Nash of all people begged management to trade him and in the playoffs he was heard telling the Cavs in time outs to listen to him and NOT the COACH.

As I said before if this were another player at Shaq's age with his body and skill set I'd like to see him here but once you add in his cancerous personality then its a wash for me. He quite frankly isn't worth the head ache any more.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

And most important . . . trust what you see with your OWN EYES.

[lethalweapon3]

http://www.hawksquawk.net/community/index.php/topic/350522-shaq-a-cancer/

~lw3

[thescout5]

I know a motivated Shaq is a much better played than Za Za and Powell.He's going to cost but if you want to win and go far the rewards are greater. I think this off season as shown Shaq he is not nearly valued around the league and that will be a motivating factor for him. Do other teams know something the Hawks don't? Is it Shaq's ego clubhouse cancer? Even with those possibilities I still take the chance or face the alternative getting beat again in the 2nd round and maybe the first with other teams improving.

We haven't even talked about oher teams improving outside of Miami and you know Orlando and Boston are going to be tough.Other teams have improved as well yet the Hawks what have we done?

1.fired Woody hired Drew. That will help but still getting killed by Orlando should show us we do lack talent also to keep up with the elite teams. Don't just think Drew's new philosphy will be the magic potion.

2.resigned JJ until he does it in the playoffs overpriced

3.sign Powell - Joe Smith 2 ?

How is that closing the gap. Few players I see could make a difference.Shaq is the best alternative we have and it's worth the risk.

[Eddielives]

Broussard was just on 680 the fan and I did not hear him mention anything about Shaq. Guess that means that things have cooled off again as far as the Hawks and Shaq are concerned. I really think Shaq is going to retire if he can't get at least 5+ million from some team.

[Swatguy]

I know a motivated Shaq is a much better played than Za Za and Powell.He's going to cost but if you want to win and go far the rewards are greater. I think this off season as shown Shaq he is not nearly valued around the league and that will be a motivating factor for him. Do other teams know something the Hawks don't? Is it Shaq's ego clubhouse cancer? Even with those possibilities I still take the chance or face the alternative getting beat again in the 2nd round and maybe the first with other teams improving.

Few players I see could make a difference.Shaq is the best alternative we have and it's worth the risk.

Give this man a beer.

[Swatguy]

Broussard was just on 680 the fan and I did not hear him mention anything about Shaq. Guess that means that things have cooled off again as far as the Hawks and Shaq are concerned. I really think Shaq is going to retire if he can't get at least 5+ million from some team.

Broussard has flip-flopped more than a hooker at the beach. Can't trust what he says.