Is CP3 worth it...

[Guest Walter]

I would personally say yes to 1 and 3 both from a performance and business standpoint and I would choose to trade Horford as I believe that Okafor's 10/9 more closely resembles Horford's 14/10 in style of play and Paul could do more to help JS than Horford. Note: Okafor is listed as having played 82 games the last 3 seasons.

Walter

Edited July 27, 2010 by Walter

[spotatl]

Of course thats worth it. But to be honest I don't think that either trade is close to what it would actually take to get him.

I'd prefer to include Horford just because we know that Smith is locked in to a reasonable contract for the next 3 years and I think that Horford is going to get maxed out this coming offseason. Though hopefully under the new CBA the contract won't be too disastrous.

Edited July 27, 2010 by spotatl

[frosgrim]

I would definitely put some package together to get Paul. I would center it around Smith over Horford. While Walter makes a good point that Oak and Horf play a similar style; Oak is injury prone, thus we need to keep both to provide the necessary beef around the basket.

Plus, if you include Horford you have to include more from the team to make the trade work. The Hawks are already too thin on the bench and having to add in players to make the salary numbers work weakens the team overall. Lastly, we have to be cognizant of how many players NO can take from the Hawks.

[KB21]

Yes it is worth it! Yes, Atlanta would be giving up some dang fine young talent in the deal whether it is Al or Josh, but you have to give something to get something. It isn't like they would be trading them for slop. Chris Paul is only 25 years old and is one of if not the best point guard in the NBA. He's got some injury concerns, but this is a player that makes you 15 wins better the moment you get him.

Another point. The combo of Paul and Johnson at guard might just be the most unstoppable guard tandem in the NBA. These two players do well offensively whether they are facing above average defenses or below average defenses.

[lethalweapon3]

Mo & Josh, and they can keep Mek. Being required to take Mek is the one thing that would give me pause.

If they still want picks, they can accept any of our growing array of second-round picks.

~lw3

[Diesel]

Of course thats worth it. But to be honest I don't think that either trade is close to what it would actually take to get him.

I'd prefer to include Horford just because we know that Smith is locked in to a reasonable contract for the next 3 years and I think that Horford is going to get maxed out this coming offseason. Though hopefully under the new CBA the contract won't be too disastrous.

This is my reasoning too. I would also add in enough to get Okafor from them to replace Horf.

I think Horf is not going to stay? I just got a gut feeling. Therefore, I'd rather keep Smoove... and use the next draft to get a big.

Maybe Fab Melo or Keith Benson.

[Diesel]

Yes it is worth it! Yes, Atlanta would be giving up some dang fine young talent in the deal whether it is Al or Josh, but you have to give something to get something. It isn't like they would be trading them for slop. Chris Paul is only 25 years old and is one of if not the best point guard in the NBA. He's got some injury concerns, but this is a player that makes you 15 wins better the moment you get him.

Another point. The combo of Paul and Johnson at guard might just be the most unstoppable guard tandem in the NBA. These two players do well offensively whether they are facing above average defenses or below average defenses.

I remember when both of them played on Team USA a few years back. They have good chemistry. Both are good scorers and defenders. We would have one of the most unstoppable, unbeatable backcourts in the game. If we can get a defensive minded Okafor in return and keep Smoove, we'd have one of the top to bottom best defensive teams in the game. Add in Shaq for good measure!!!

[Packfill]

I would trade anyone on the Hawks roster for Paul. He is better than all of them.

[spotatl]

Horford should still be a RFA after this season so I think its highly doubtful the Hawks would let him leave (though in theory the rules of restricted free agency could change to make Horford unrestricted). I just think that some team like the Nets will throw the max at him because they have nothing to lose.

[Joker]

I would include Crawford if I could get them to take Bibby and Zaza instead.

Horford would be better with CP3 than Smith. Both would be better with CP3 but Horford can become elite and Smith could become a star. The gap between those players are large in terms of making with a playmaker. Smith is still limited in terms of becoming elite offensively, Horford has all the skills needed to be elite with a guy who can create for him. Easy one for me, Horford.

If I am taking Okafor, I am not trading a pick, period. His contract is albatross.

[HawksFan87]

Smoove and CP3 > CP3 and AL. People talk like Al's offensive game is so great, when it's not. He still has a lot to work on. Just like Smoove does.

[Guest Walter]

I really don't see how the argument for Okafor/Horford/Paul over Okafor/JS/Paul goes?

First, the similarities between Okafor and Horford are evident. Position, size, style of play. Where players are too similar it would appear they cannot play together without harming skill diversity of the team.

Second, while Okafor has had injury problems and missed last year's preseason, he's played 82 games each of the last 3 seasons! This is about as far from a red flag as you can get.

Thirdly, the trading of Horford necessitates including other "talent" or contracts. NO doesn't need another PG prospect so Teague isn't necessary and his salary doesn't help much. Getting rid of Bibby's contract takes a chunk out of taking on Okafor.

There are other positives to keeping JS over Horford in this deal, JS is signed to a reasonable contract, Horford isn't signed AT ALL entering a collective bargaining agreement offseason, JS is from ATL, JS plays PF not C...

There is nothing wrong with the debate of JS vs Al individually and there are many other deals where I would trade JS over Horford, but in a deal that brings Okafor and Paul, losing Horford is the lesser evil.

W

[D.R.P.]

There is nothing wrong with the debate of JS vs Al individually and there are many other deals where I would trade JS over Horford, but in a deal that brings Okafor and Paul, losing Horford is the lesser evil.

W

Josh is far more limited in the post than Al. At the 4, Horford demands a double team (versus many defenders), while no one double teams Josh; plus Al is a superior shooter. During the post season to become a true contender the Hawks must have a legitimate post player, and that's something that Josh is not. Remember the Bucks had Carlos Delfino guarding Josh during the playoffs. Do you think Scott Skiles would of had Delfino guarding Al? Me thinks not.

Comparing Okafor to Horford is laughable, and quite dis-respectful to Al's game. Al has constantly improved year after year while Okafor has regressed year after year. Makes no sense to compare an offensively limited player (Okafor) to an improving all-star (Horford).

The bottom line is, if the Hawks are trying to be a true contender they must keep Horford. Josh's positive with CP3 vs. Horford with CP3, is a more excitable team; however that team is not a contender..

Edited July 28, 2010 by D.R.P.

[Guest Walter]

Josh is far more limited in the post than Al. At the 4, Horford demands a double team (versus many defenders), while no one double teams Josh; plus Al is a superior shooter. During the post season to become a true contender the Hawks must have a legitimate post player, and that's something that Josh is not. Remember the Bucks had Carlos Delfino guarding Josh during the playoffs. Do you think Scott Skiles would of had Delfino guarding Al? Me thinks not.

Comparing Okafor to Horford is laughable, and quite dis-respectful to Al's game. Al has constantly improved year after year while Okafor has regressed year after year. Makes no sense to compare an offensively limited player (Okafor) to an improving all-star (Horford).

The bottom line is, if the Hawks are trying to be a true contender they must keep Horford. Josh's positive with CP3 vs. Horford with CP3, is a more excitable team; however that team is not a contender..

I think you just maxed out Al with all that talk. Either way we should do it but Al Horford while very good, is simply not THAT different than Okafor. People only dislike Okafor for his contract and the incorrect notion that he continues to be injury prone. In one year Horford will have A BIGGER CONTRACT.

BTW, It's no insult to compare two roughly 6'10" 250 lb undersized "centers" who average double doubles. Okafor had 10.4/9 in 28.9 mpg and averages 13.3/10.3/1.8 BPG. Horford hasn't averaged 10 RPG for a season (9.9 this season is close) and Okafor has for his career, but his career 12.2/9.6/1.1 BPG reads like Okafor to the "T".

Frankly, Okafor got a bad rap, top pick, early injuries, and a big contract. He's as much like Horford as anyone I can think of and while Horford can be more of a PF than Okafor, doing so next to Okafor, a player he resembles greatly, just doesn't make a great deal of sense.

W

Edited July 28, 2010 by Walter

[Joker]

I really don't see how the argument for Okafor/Horford/Paul over Okafor/JS/Paul goes?

First, the similarities between Okafor and Horford are evident. Position, size, style of play. Where players are too similar it would appear they cannot play together without harming skill diversity of the team.

Second, while Okafor has had injury problems and missed last year's preseason, he's played 82 games each of the last 3 seasons! This is about as far from a red flag as you can get.

Thirdly, the trading of Horford necessitates including other "talent" or contracts. NO doesn't need another PG prospect so Teague isn't necessary and his salary doesn't help much. Getting rid of Bibby's contract takes a chunk out of taking on Okafor.

There are other positives to keeping JS over Horford in this deal, JS is signed to a reasonable contract, Horford isn't signed AT ALL entering a collective bargaining agreement offseason, JS is from ATL, JS plays PF not C...

There is nothing wrong with the debate of JS vs Al individually and there are many other deals where I would trade JS over Horford, but in a deal that brings Okafor and Paul, losing Horford is the lesser evil.

W

Saying Horford is comparable to Okafor is horsesh**. I watched Okafor with Charlotte and NO numerous times. He was average to below average to awful on many nights. He struggles with the same type of players that Al does but he is much less talented and can not move to PF too nonathletic but too small for center. Not to mention, he gets paid like he is Brook Lopez, not like a improved Zaza in which he is. He puts up empty stats like Antoine Walker did for us and other teams while he was in the NBA. Quit looking at the stat sheet, Okafor is like Horford, lmfao. That's like looking at Antwan Jamison and Pau Gasol stats and saying that Jamison and Gasol are the same when clearly their not. In fact, Josh Smith PER is near Kobe's, but everyone and their mother knows who is the better player.

As I stated earlier, Horford has more potential with a playmaking PG since he is a PnR PF. Josh potential just depends on his role and not who's around him. He will never be a legit #1 option no matter who is surrounding him. He's a #2 who plays great overall defense and has a lot of game around the basket. He is a player to like but one I wouldn't love. A great piece to build around if your rebuilding like we did with Joe in 2005. Al is not such a great piece to build around but he is an excellent piece on a contender and an elite piece with a playmaking PG. As for Horford, there is a strong chance that Atlanta will sign him during the season like Rondo and LMA did.

Didn't mean to be an a** to you but this is fourth time I heard that comment and I had to reply. It's simply not true and I am warming to Josh a lot but not over Al.

Edited July 28, 2010 by nbasuperstar40

[Peoriabird]

What a surprise! Another Chris Paul thread on Paul Squawk. The community for fan of Chris Paul :conversation:

[GameTime]

Al has been overrated by Hawks fans. Al is not better than Josh. I don't care if he went to the All Star Game before Josh did. What most people don't know is Josh Smith is darn near unstoppable with the the pick n roll (Ranked 5th in the league thanks to Synergy). Woody was just dumb to to the fact of using him much that way. And I disagree with Horf being elite and Smoove just being a "star" with CP3.

Horf with Chris Paul IMO is: 18 points, 11 rebounds, and a block at MAX

Josh Smith with Chris Paul is: 20 points, 10 rebounds, 5 assists, 2 blocks, and 2 steals at MAX. How is that not "Elite"?

Edited July 28, 2010 by GameTime

[JJFAN4LF]

Al has been overrated by Hawks fans. Al is not better than Josh. I don't care if he went to the All Star Game before Josh did. What most people don't know is Josh Smith is darn near unstoppable with the the pick n roll (Ranked 5th in the league thanks to Synergy). Woody was just dumb to to the fact of using him much that way. And I disagree with Horf being elite and Smoove just being a "star" with CP3.

Horf with Chris Paul IMO is: 18 points, 11 rebounds, and a block at MAX

Josh Smith with Chris Paul is: 20 points, 10 rebounds, 5 assists, 2 blocks, and 2 steals at MAX. How is that not "Elite"?

How does Josh Smith's assist numbers go up when you add one of the top assists player in the league?

I agree with you though. I see Josh Smith improving more with Chris Paul than I see Al improving with Chris Paul. I think the leadership ability of Chris Paul can make Josh Smith a more mature and efficient player.

[HawksBalla]

I'd trade anyone for Paul. He's that good.

[GameTime]

How does Josh Smith's assist numbers go up when you add one of the top assists player in the league?

I agree with you though. I see Josh Smith improving more with Chris Paul than I see Al improving with Chris Paul. I think the leadership ability of Chris Paul can make Josh Smith a more mature and efficient player.

Smoove is a perfect fit for Drew's motion offense. He will be passing a lot more in this offense. But, yeah I agree with your points as well.

Edited July 28, 2010 by GameTime