What's wrong with this team?

[JackB1]

I see one major pattern in this team since day 1......

NO DEFENSIVE

Even the games we won, we won by outscoring our opponent. We can score and the

offense was pretty good tonite. But...we couldn't get it closer than 5 the whole night.

We couldn't get stops whenever we needed them. It seems like we have no clue

on defense. It looked like the effort was pretty good tonite, but we just aren't good

defensively. Jamal and Bibby are useless on D and Marvin is a good defender, but

when oh when is he going to play up to his supposed potential? Powell has looked

pretty good and deserves more minutes IMO. Teague still isn't playing like we all want

him to (dishing and driving) and Drew is playing him less and less lately. JC2 needs

more playing time and has too much raw talent to leave on the bench with the rest of

the team stinking it up. Joe has been horrible so far this year and is making everyone

sorry they gave him that contract.

Seems like Drew is a good X's and O's guy, but doesn't command the respect of the players

and is too "nice" to the players. When I heard him say "I guess I am going to have to live with

those long jumpers", I knew we were in trouble. We need someone that will get all these

overpaid lazy fat cats to work their butts off night after night, for 4 quarters at a time. I don't

know who they could possibly get at this point, but hiring the assistant coach doesn't seem

like the best move right now.

[Atlantaholic]

As much grief as Bibby and Jamal Crawford get for their defense, Joe Johnson has been, for the most part, every little bit as terrible as both those guys. Especially against pick and rolls.

[Joker]

I said it in the chat, we hired a lifetime assistant and is trying to make him a head coach. Atlanta was being really cheap again. Even if we make a blockbuster deal, he will not be back next year. He's like Adreian Dantley for Denver Nuggets last year.

[Wretch]

Defense is a problem...I would agree. One thing you also have to consider though is the timing of the game. When the other team has the momentum, it's a little harder to defend. Guys have their confidence going, their adrenaline is higher, the crowd is behind them (on the road), it's more than just lock down defense and it's different when you're holding a lead and when you're fighting to get back into the game. Defense is about hustle and intensity. Man...those old Knicks, Pistons, and Heat teams would put you on your *ss trying to come in there and lay the ball up. We need some of that.

We need to knock the wind out of teams too by scoring on the other end and making it an uphill battle for them (on both ends).

[DreamChaser]

That's one of the problems. Collectively, they play no defense, especially in the paint. They make other teams look unstoppable. What about rebounding? The Hawks don't attempt to get a rebound unless it lands directly in their hands. When someone shoots, they literally become spectators or everyone runs back down the court.

The Hawks really need to put their personal issues aside and get it together. Honestly, these men have been playing basketball for too long to play as pitiful as they are playing now. Middle schoolers play with more passion and instinct than the Hawks.

Off topic, I want to see more of Jordan Crawford. He needs more experience.

[coachx]

As much grief as Bibby and Jamal Crawford get for their defense, Joe Johnson has been, for the most part, every little bit as terrible as both those guys. Especially against pick and rolls.

That is b/c we are forcing a 6'7'', 240 lb man to defend Devin Harris who is still one of the quickest PGs in the league. For the most part, Bibby and Crawford defend the worst offensive player on the floor while JJ defends the best.

Our perimeter defense is a roster problem. Teague was supposed to be the answer but he is just not a natural PG. Maybe he morph into one. Notice though Teague's + 9, in only 16 minutes, was the best of any Hawk and he only played 16 minutes. When he is on defense opposing PGs can't get in the paint as easily.

A roster shake up is on order in my opinion. Jarret Jack would have been perfect for this team's defensive needs.

Edited November 24, 2010 by coachx

[spotatl]

The problem with this team has always been the same. They have just 1 guy on the roster who can consistently draw a double team and find the open man. (Joe) They have another guy who can consistently draw a doubleteam and who can often score through it. (Jamal) They don't have a post threat. They don't have a quality starting PG nor a quality backup PG. They lack both perimeter defense and a guy who can lock down top post threats. The team is greatly vulnerable when the opposing team has a PF that can drag Josh Smith to the outside. This is just a flawed roster.

And the team is spending FIFTY million dollars less on their payroll than a team like Orlando- they are trying to do more with less.

Edited November 24, 2010 by spotatl

[DJlaysitup]

As much grief as Bibby and Jamal Crawford get for their defense...

I will give Bibby one thing. He simply doesn't have the tools to be a shutdown defender...it's not about his effort.

[lethalweapon3]

A team with no vocal veteran leadership on the floor (from veterans that have actually accomplished something in the NBA), coming off two consecutive piss-poor playoff exits, fires the head coach but promotes the assistant that sat next to him the whole time, making negligible changes to the coaching staff (who themselves have accomplished very little in the NBA), none of whom are FUTA (Foot Up the *ss) personality types.

The management retains some semblance of a core but adds nothing significant to it, converting three draft picks into one seldom-contributing rookie, cap space, and some dude whose back apparently remains sore from flying coach across the Atlantic on his own dime to audition; also, passing on veteran free agents still contributing to rival teams and settling for low-impact lifers on the bench in the hopes they'll suddenly become worthy of regular rotation. They forgo experienced head coaches and vocal outsider personalities, opting instead for a team pal who, similar to their second-rounder, combined an infomercial-length audition with a bargain-basement salary demand to secure a contract. Despite understandably growing fan consternation, no money was spent to upgrade the members of the starting lineup.

Remaining below the luxury tax ceiling but striving to stop being publicly branded as "cheap," the owners give the majority of what cash they had to their perennial quiet leader, in exchange for him willingly absorbing the slings and arrows of fans demanding more from this team that would otherwise be directed toward them.

A mostly-young roster conditioned by the absence of any team-oriented offensive mindset over the course of more than three years is expected to master an offensive system from its first-time head coach in less than a month and employ it successfully against high-caliber and better-seasoned NBA competition. Players accustomed to receiving switching help as cover for their defensive shortcomings are now on notice that no such help will be available this year, in the hopes that this alone will somehow force them to address their own flaws. A team who needs to spend at least 99% of their focus on making any of this work is hopelessly preoccupied with afterparties, strippers, running restaurants, strippers, Rubik's Cubes, Halloween costumes, strippers, next year's salary, blogs, poetry slams, and fashion awards. Oh, and strippers.

That's a start. I'll get to the on-the-court stuff later.

~lw3

[Joker]

A team with no vocal veteran leadership on the floor (from veterans that have actually accomplished something in the NBA), coming off two consecutive piss-poor playoff exits, fires the head coach but promotes the assistant that sat next to him the whole time, making negligible changes to the coaching staff (who themselves have accomplished very little in the NBA), none of whom are FUTA (Foot Up the *ss) personality types.

The management retains some semblance of a core but adds nothing significant to it, converting three draft picks into one seldom-contributing rookie, cap space, and some dude whose back apparently remains sore from flying coach across the Atlantic on his own dime to audition; also, passing on veteran free agents still contributing to rival teams and settling for low-impact lifers on the bench in the hopes they'll suddenly become worthy of regular rotation. They forgo experienced head coaches and vocal outsider personalities, opting instead for a team pal who, similar to their second-rounder, combined an infomercial-length audition with a bargain-basement salary demand to secure a contract. Despite understandably growing fan consternation, no money was spent to upgrade the members of the starting lineup.

Remaining below the luxury tax ceiling but striving to stop being publicly branded as "cheap," the owners give the majority of what cash they had to their perennial quiet leader, in exchange for him willingly absorbing the slings and arrows of fans demanding more from this team that would otherwise be directed toward them.

A mostly-young roster conditioned by the absence of any team-oriented offensive mindset over the course of more than three years is expected to master an offensive system from its first-time head coach in less than a month and employ it successfully against high-caliber and better-seasoned NBA competition. Players accustomed to receiving switching help as cover for their defensive shortcomings are now on notice that no such help will be available this year, in the hopes that this alone will somehow force them to address their own flaws. A team who needs to spend at least 99% of their focus on making any of this work is hopelessly preoccupied with afterparties, strippers, running restaurants, strippers, Rubik's Cubes, Halloween costumes, strippers, next year's salary, blogs, poetry slams, and fashion awards. Oh, and strippers.

That's a start. I'll get to the on-the-court stuff later.

~lw3

lw3 is laying gems. It's hard for ASG to spend money. Atlanta really doesn't support the team. Look at attendance, if it wasn't for corporate sponsors, this team would have moved on along time ago. Atlanta needs to be smart. Superstars sell in Atlanta. This is an entertainment city, you can have a blue collar approach in a flashy city. We do have die-hards but they come and go like the wind. Atlanta needs to understand that. When they gave out free tickets, no one took them up for the offer. It's shows you the interest in this team is at an all time low. But the money they did spend was pointless. I understand signing Joe but money poorly spend. I commend them for signing Horford but the rest is questionable. Marvin deal is a senseless since he just going to what's needed. Bibby's deal had to be made thanks to other teams wanting Bibby in the market. We couldn't let him go, look at the team when it's just Teague, it's not a good look for us.

[Seano]

We're deficient in a lot of areas and in a variety of different ways, but the one that's most grating to me is the fact that we royally suck at the SF position, which theoretically should be one of the easiest positions to fill in basketball. Marvin Williams is awful. Mo Evans, awful. Both are black holes of utter and complete suckitude, and it is so damned frustrating to see Marvin pulling his Invisible Man act night after night after night.

[DJlaysitup]

lw3 is laying gems. It's hard for ASG to spend money.....

It's because we have a consortium of owners...not one really rich person who can rule as a benigned dictator and have the absolute final say.

For all you Belkin haters...you can take solice in this: While Belkin may end up being absolved of guilt in JJ S-n-T debacle and his problems with BK...he is also still the single highest %age-wise owner of the Hawks...while he may have been right all along - he is still suffering financially..

Edited November 24, 2010 by DJlaysitup

[Joker]

We're deficient in a lot of areas and in a variety of different ways, but the one that's most grating to me is the fact that we royally suck at the SF position, which theoretically should be one of the easiest positions to fill in basketball. Marvin Williams is awful. Mo Evans, awful. Both are black holes of utter and complete suckitude, and it is so damned frustrating to see Marvin pulling his Invisible Man act night after night after night.

As someone who watching a lot of Basketball around the league, Marvin is on par with most starting SF's. I understand the Marvin hate comes from the fact Deron or CP3 could be here instead of him but reality, he's on par. I just think he's better suited on a team that needs him not us who really just want him to be a role player. I still don't like the contract and I refuse to talk about Smoove badly outside of the chat so I hold my peace on him.

[Seano]

As someone who watching a lot of Basketball around the league, Marvin is on par with most starting SF's. I understand the Marvin hate comes from the fact Deron or CP3 could be here instead of him but reality, he's on par. I just think he's better suited on a team that needs him not us who really just want him to be a role player. I still don't like the contract and I refuse to talk about Smoove badly outside of the chat so I hold my peace on him.

On par? On par for what exactly? What is Marvin, and what exactly does he do beyond mostly wander around out there not making any plays? He's not a scorer, he's not a rebounder, he's not some great defensive wizard, and for a guy billed a 'shooter', he sure struggles with his shot, especially past mid-range. This has nothing to do with CP3 or Deron, I'm talking about Marvin as a player, and how he's he's such a non-impact player that he literally can seem to disappear for minutes at a time out there on the basketball court, and that's because he's not making any plays. That's why he's the Invisible Man. He's averaging 8.5 points and 4.5 boards in 27.5 minutes per, and honestly we could get a street free agent to come in here and put up those kind of numbers.

[benhillboy]

Everything not named Smith or Horford.

[Joker]

On par? On par for what exactly? What is Marvin, and what exactly does he do beyond mostly wander around out there not making any plays? He's not a scorer, he's not a rebounder, he's not some great defensive wizard, and for a guy billed a 'shooter', he sure struggles with his shot, especially past mid-range. This has nothing to do with CP3 or Deron, I'm talking about Marvin as a player, and how he's he's such a non-impact player that he literally can seem to disappear for minutes at a time out there on the basketball court, and that's because he's not making any plays. That's why he's the Invisible Man. He's averaging 8.5 points and 4.5 boards in 27.5 minutes per, and honestly we could get a street free agent to come in here and put up those kind of numbers.

You can't find a FA who can give you those numbers, most FA SF's are like Mo Evans or worst. This offense only has one ball and four other guys who need their touches, it's not like were running the motion offense much anymore. Marvin isn't the best motion guy either, the real reason why this offense looked good at the beginning of the season was ball movement. That has since taken a halt since the sixth game. We only have two guys who move well without the ball (Horford and Joe). But the ball movement is where he should shine but we don't. Once again, you guys only see a lot of the guys you clamor over maybe 3 to 7 times in a season. Watching tape when I have time, it's the same thing at the position for most teams.

[Highpozt2]

As much grief as Bibby and Jamal Crawford get for their defense, Joe Johnson has been, for the most part, every little bit as terrible as both those guys. Especially against pick and rolls.

Joe has never been a stand out defender - but with his size he could bring more. Perimeter defense will have to improve or we will struggle all year.

[DJlaysitup]

On par? On par for what exactly? What is Marvin, and what exactly does he do beyond mostly wander around out there not making any plays? He's not a scorer, he's not a rebounder, he's not some great defensive wizard, and for a guy billed a 'shooter', he sure struggles with his shot, especially past mid-range. This has nothing to do with CP3 or Deron, I'm talking about Marvin as a player, and how he's he's such a non-impact player that he literally can seem to disappear for minutes at a time out there on the basketball court, and that's because he's not making any plays. That's why he's the Invisible Man. He's averaging 8.5 points and 4.5 boards in 27.5 minutes per, and honestly we could get a street free agent to come in here and put up those kind of numbers.

Marvin is a killer for this team IMO. If you want to go 6-9 and 1/2 inch at center and 6-8 at PF you HAVE to have an impact SF...like Alex English...that's the only way you do a small lineup. If you are small at C-PF you HAVE to have a killer SF.

[Atlantaholic]

Marvin has been so terrible this year. It's like every year he cares less and less. I seriously doubt that the guy's #1 priority is playing basketball. Ever since he got his extension he has mailed it in every single game.

[Seano]

Marvin is a killer for this team IMO. If you want to go 6-9 and 1/2 inch at center and 6-8 at PF you HAVE to have an impact SF...like Alex English...that's the only way you do a small lineup. If you are small at C-PF you HAVE to have a killer SF.

He is a killer. He's a void, and the fact we're paying the guy 7M+ per year to be that void is pretty damn discouraging. Diesel was right all along. Marvin is just not a very good player and he seems to lack heart or energy or determination or whatever it is that causes him to so often be a step behind or out of position or waddling and dawdling his way up the court or bouncing balls off his knees or shoes and doing all the other things that make Marvin the very special player that he is.

Marvin has been so terrible this year. It's like every year he cares less and less. I seriously doubt that the guy's #1 priority is playing basketball. Ever since he got his extension he has mailed it in every single game.

Totally agree. It's like he's sleepwalking out there.