The most accurate piece on Josh Smith I have ever read!

[Wurider05]

This is from a poster on Name of external link.

He absolutely gets it. This is just plain common sense fellas.

You make a solid argument very good points in regards to Josh. I agree with most of what you are saying. I really like Josh and his physical ability is very rare, but the more I watch the Hawks this season, the more I realize that Josh can sometimes be very problematic for the team. Josh is good at a large variety of things, and while that may be a strength, it’s also a weakness because, like you said, he has no defined role, and he doesn’t do anything well enough that he can fit into a specific role.

Looking at the issues that the team has currently, a few things stick out to me in particular. On the offensive end, the Hawks are still suffering from lack of diversity, lack of shot distribution, and a semi-predictable offense that is heavily-predicated upon guard play and jump shooting. As many people have mentioned, continuously, the Hawks don’t run many inside plays and hardly ever run post-ups. As a result, they underutilize Horford greatly, who is the only player on the team who has a truly effective post-up, back-to-the-basket game. Josh doesn’t really help to solve these problems. He’s not a great jump shooter, and he doesn’t have a legit post game by any means, so we can’t play him as a traditional four, nor can we trust him as a stretch four. Lately, Josh is actually hurting us even more on offense, because he seems to be taking a lot more shots than he should be taking. With Joe and Jamal dominating the ball and the field goal attempts so often, I get the feeling that Josh feels like he needs to “get his”, and this causes him to put up a lot of ill-advised shots. In tonight’s game, had 21 field goal attempts (made less than half of them) and took more shots than anyone for the Hawks. This not only hurts the team due to Josh’s shot selection, but it also takes shots away from Horford, who should be one of the primary offensive options.

Now, on the defensive end, some of the Hawks biggest problems are perimeter penetration, defense against the 3 point shot, and rebounding. Josh helps here, to a certain extent, since he can help recover on those penetrations and come up with help-side blocks, but at the same time, a lot of what Josh does on the defensive end hurts us. First, in terms of rebounding, I often notice that Josh fails to box out and put a body on his man. That’s one of the main reasons why Hawks give up so many offensive boards. Part of it is due to our guards not chasing down long rebounds also, but when one of your bigs doesn’t box out his man on the defensive end, it throws everything off, because even if everyone else boxes out, the free man is free to roam and often can snatch up the offensive board while the other players are occupied with their men.

Now, in terms of individual defense, sometimes I feel like Josh is a bit overrated. A lot of people who do not have a deep understanding of basketball look at the stats and assume that when a guy has a high number of blocks and steals, it automatically makes him a top-notch defender, but that’s not always the case. The vast majority of Josh’s blocks are weakside blocks, where he comes over to help. Keep in mind that blocks like this come off of a defensive gamble, where the defender leaves his man. In a lot of cases, that free man ends up scoring. Also, I’ve noticed that Josh gambles when defending the post and playing the passing lane when he goes for steals, and a lot of times, these gambles result in easy buckets for opponents. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that what Josh does on the defensive end isn’t great, but a lot of his tendencies on defense actually hurt the team, and they are not apparent when you look at the stat sheet, so people might just overlook the errors. Obviously, Josh is not a great perimeter defender, so we can’t play him out there, but even in the post, Josh is not an elite defender, partly due to his size, and partly due to his defensive gambles. Often, Josh will try to go for the steal when defending the post and give up an easy basket to his man. So, overall, as much as Josh helps the team on defense, he may be hurting us more than most think on that end of the floor as well.

So, when you look at Josh’s impact on both ends of the floor, and factor in his field goal attempts and overall impact on the game, it may be true that trading him or benching him really would be the most effective thing to do to help the team. Think about what it would mean. As good as Horford is at center, a lot of people believe, and the stats also imply this, that he would be even better at PF. Al has all the tools and skills to not only be a good PF, but to be a great one. Moving Josh would allow us to play Horford at his natural position, and a position where he would fill the role perfectly. Additionally, this would give Al Horford the offensive opportunity that he deserves, as he’d likely get a larger number of shots and we could take full advantage of his all-around game, instead of just small samples of it every once in a while. Now, obviously, filling the hole at center could be problematic, but I think that if we could just acquire a sound, defensive center, who moves well and can run the floor, the loss wouldn’t be that bad. We don’t necessarily need a scoring threat from the center position if Horford plays the 4, because Horford would handle most of the interior scoring himself, but if we could acquire an athletic, active center to complement Horford, we would still have another player to run lobs with and to attack the offensive glass.

Hence, as much as I like Josh, it might be best if the team moved on with him either on the bench, or another another team. The way the team is playing right now, something definitely needs to change, and Josh may not only be the center of a lot of the problems, but he also is the Hawks greatest bargaining chip in terms of solving those problems through personnel change. by Mr. Merlot on Nov 24, 2010 1:45 AM EST

[Joker]

As long as this roster is heavily flawed, only a top 10 player could get us over if we trade Smith. I know his game like the back of my head and he's still a talented player who is who he is. A defensive minded center isn't enough with our current roster even if Horford gets extra touches.

[Atlantaholic]

Reasons we suck (in order)

Joe Johnson playing like a ghetto version of Rashard Lewis

Jamal Crawford playing like Jamal Crawford circa 2002-2009

No Defense

No Depth

No Hustle

Bad rebounding

Josh Smith (aside from the last two games) has been a plus player for us. I don't understand how when you've got your entire backcourt (with the exception of Bibby on offense) playing like a steaming putrid rancid pile of garbage you guys can continue to blame Smith. Even if he was playing amazing (like he did for a two week stretch) we would still suck because the main problems in this team do not start and end with him. If Joe was giving us ANYTHING we probably could have won two or three more games this year. The guy has done nothing but miss wide open jumpers and give 0 effort on defense. I hope his play is due to his injury because if Joe Johnson's play does not improve DRAMATICALLY this team will continue to look terrible. There is a reason this team paid the man 120 million dollars and that's because the guy was our only consistent offensive threat, without him in his regular form this team will continue to look terrible. Smith is a bargain at 10 million a year, name me one player in the league making that salary that would improve our team in place of Smith??? Yeah, the guy is not Dwight Howard or Tim Duncan, but he is a very valuable player and one of the better contracts on our team.

The article above is pretty fallacious with what it concludes are obvious observations about Smiths impact to the team since pretty much every single metric available that measures a players impact (+-, win shares, PER etc) point to Smith being our second most valuable player after Horford the last couple of years. The guy cites Smith's 9-21 shooting night as proof that he is hurting our offense, but that same game Joe Johnson shot 6-18, and was one of the main reasons we lost in overtime missing three shots that a 120 million dollar player should nail in his sleep,.

One thing that is definitely true though, is that if we want to make any kind of blockbuster trade Josh Smith or Horford will definitely have to go since they are the only legitimately good pieces the team has right now. Between the two of them you've obviously got to keep Horf. If we can package Josh Smith and Marvin for a top 10 NBA star than we need to make it happen, because what this team needs the most is a legit NBA veteran superstar who can carry the team when it needs it and lead it. (I.E. the thing we should have spent 120 million dollars on instead of Joe Johnson).

[plskeepbibby]

The problem with Josh Smith has absolutely nothing to do with his skill set or athletic ability..... It starts and ends with what is between his ears. I go to every hawks game and sit close to the bench and its always the same piss poor, shitty attitude with Josh Smith. He constantly barks profanities at the coaching staff and continually pays absolutely no attention during time outs. He is completely immature and disrespectful to everyone on the court. A source close to the team tells me he fights with Joe and Al and absolutely takes no blame for anything at all on the basketball court. Although the Hawks problems extend past this, I seriously think this is a continuing major issue. HE NEEDS TO GO!!!! His attitude has not improved rather digressed and this is his 7th year in the league. I am sick of this guys bullsh*t antics and so are a lot of people I know and talk to at games. Atlanta will never win anything with a lot of guys on the current roster... but will never accomplish anything with the basket case Josh Smith......

[jhay610]

The vast majority of Josh’s blocks are weakside blocks, where he comes over to help. Keep in mind that blocks like this come off of a defensive gamble, where the defender leaves his man. In a lot of cases, that free man ends up scoring.

This is wrong. It is not a 'gamble' to come over from the weakside and help, it is a responsibility. If your man ends up scoring it's not your fault, it's because the next man missed his rotation.

Would you rather the guy just lay it in or be forced to make an extra pass (or, if everyone rotates properly, several extra passes)?

[Randy]

Way I have it figured Josh and Al are the only two guys on this team that have improved since last year. Everybody else is just gotten worse. Why trade the guy whose doing better?

But no question the roster is flawed. Two pfs, no center, no PG.

[DJlaysitup]

Omg...omgomgomg....Smoove has weaknesses. Touchdown! Two point conversion for the anonymous poster!

Of course Smoove has weaknesses....he's 6-8...if he were 7-0 he would be God (in the NBA that is). He also has major strengths.

I get sick and tired of all these folks talking about what Smoove can and can't do. He is the one guy (ONE GUY) who has improved his game every ) F'n year - Smoove is a professional basketball player...period. He came out of HS/AAU into the pros and was just a jumper - couldn't hit the side of a barn. We used to laugh at his non-dunk attempts. He has improved monumentally. Can he play the three - maybe not on this team where he has to be a SF and also cover for our guards....inside.

Edited November 25, 2010 by DJlaysitup

[benhillboy]

Josh will forever be a guy you have to take the good with the bad with. I will not argue against 16-9-4-3 and shooting almost 50% from a 25 year-old veteran, with still much to learn. I just wonder if this coaching staff is the one to teach him. I would be disappointed to see him go, but Al is the only piece I see as totally neccessary and ideal to build a team. Our PG depth is too depressing to speak on anymore.

Edited November 25, 2010 by benhillboy

[BudBall]

Smoove has been good, but damn man we got 2 PF and obviously its not working down there on defense so I say ship his *ss out.

[Crank]

Omg...omgomgomg....Smoove has weaknesses. Touchdown! Two point conversion for the anonymous poster!

Of course Smoove has weaknesses....he's 6-8...if he were 7-0 he would be God (in the NBA that is). He also has major strengths.

I get sick and tired of all these folks talking about what Smoove can and can't do. He is the one guy (ONE GUY) who has improved his game every ) F'n year - Smoove is a professional basketball player...period. He came out of HS/AAU into the pros and was just a jumper - couldn't hit the side of a barn. We used to laugh at his non-dunk attempts. He has improved monumentally. Can he play the three - maybe not on this team where he has to be a SF and also cover for our guards....inside.

Hes improved everywhere but where it matters "between the ears " . You could live with it if we didnt have a another PF who has something between the ears so you either let the tank to nothing killing the value of everyone or you actually make the tough decision and move him for a piece that you can use now and in the future . Sometimes you have to take a step backwards to go forward.

[Jody23]

Omg...omgomgomg....Smoove has weaknesses. Touchdown! Two point conversion for the anonymous poster!

Of course Smoove has weaknesses....he's 6-8...if he were 7-0 he would be God (in the NBA that is). He also has major strengths.

I get sick and tired of all these folks talking about what Smoove can and can't do. He is the one guy (ONE GUY) who has improved his game every ) F'n year - Smoove is a professional basketball player...period. He came out of HS/AAU into the pros and was just a jumper - couldn't hit the side of a barn. We used to laugh at his non-dunk attempts. He has improved monumentally. Can he play the three - maybe not on this team where he has to be a SF and also cover for our guards....inside.

Agreed. It's amazing to me how folks try to place all the blame on Smoove when things go wrong and refuse to acknowledge the the multiple problems this team has in other areas.

Edited November 25, 2010 by Jody23

[Jody23]

And as much as people question the "basketball IQ" of Josh Smith, people need to question the "basketball IQ" of quite a few other players on this team because Josh isn't the only one who makes poor decisons at times. People should at least be grateful that the guy has heart. I don't know if you can say that about everyone this roster.

[MoBetta]

Josh has been in the NBA how long and he still has no knowledge of Basketball Fundamentals. Unreal.

[Jody23]

This is from a poster on Name of external link.

He absolutely gets it. This is just plain common sense fellas.

No offense, but this is an EPIC FAIL. This dude doesn't "get it" if he wants to pen all the blame on Josh. This team has many issues.

[tonegully]

please get rid of Teague, Bibby, and Crawford. Id rather have carlos arroyo. At least that dude is consistent and can play a little defense.

[DJlaysitup]

Josh has been in the NBA how long and he still has no knowledge of Basketball Fundamentals. Unreal.

Well he knows how to stick it back in your face if you drive to the hoop. I've seen many a guard just "turn around" when they saw him on their drives. He is a very intimidating player.

He's not Magic Johnson...but he would have blocked a bunch of M's shots when M went to the hoop.

[AHawks89]

Funny how you think it's bad when Josh is taking jump shots, while Michael Cunningham disagrees with that.

Josh on the bench? Josh defense is overrated? What the hell?? I wonder how some people think sometimes. Anyways, I agree with Michael Cunningham

[Eddielives]

The problem with Josh Smith has absolutely nothing to do with his skill set or athletic ability..... It starts and ends with what is between his ears. I go to every hawks game and sit close to the bench and its always the same piss poor, shitty attitude with Josh Smith. He constantly barks profanities at the coaching staff and continually pays absolutely no attention during time outs. He is completely immature and disrespectful to everyone on the court. A source close to the team tells me he fights with Joe and Al and absolutely takes no blame for anything at all on the basketball court. Although the Hawks problems extend past this, I seriously think this is a continuing major issue. HE NEEDS TO GO!!!! His attitude has not improved rather digressed and this is his 7th year in the league. I am sick of this guys bullsh*t antics and so are a lot of people I know and talk to at games. Atlanta will never win anything with a lot of guys on the current roster... but will never accomplish anything with the basket case Josh Smith......

I have suspected what you are testifying about Josh Smith for a while. If this true, he needs to be traded without a second thought about it.

[JackB1]

The problem with Josh Smith has absolutely nothing to do with his skill set or athletic ability..... It starts and ends with what is between his ears. I go to every hawks game and sit close to the bench and its always the same piss poor, shitty attitude with Josh Smith. He constantly barks profanities at the coaching staff and continually pays absolutely no attention during time outs. He is completely immature and disrespectful to everyone on the court. A source close to the team tells me he fights with Joe and Al and absolutely takes no blame for anything at all on the basketball court. Although the Hawks problems extend past this, I seriously think this is a continuing major issue. HE NEEDS TO GO!!!! His attitude has not improved rather digressed and this is his 7th year in the league. I am sick of this guys bullsh*t antics and so are a lot of people I know and talk to at games. Atlanta will never win anything with a lot of guys on the current roster... but will never accomplish anything with the basket case Josh Smith......

I go to a lot of games and see the same things from Josh. I totally agree that his problems are between his ears and that cannot be fixed. If you go to a game and just isolate and watch Josh, you will see how he goes through stretches where he plays hard and then extended periods where he doesn't try at all and just stands around with his arms down. This usually happens after he gets pissed off about something and pouts for 5 minutes. I think his prima donna attitude is like a cancer on this team.

[macdaddy]

Prima donna attitude? Geez you would think on a team of guys that mostly look like they could care less we'd appreciate a guy with passion. His attitude problem is overblown. Does he make a bone headed play now and then? Sure. You know who doesn't make a bone-headed play now and then? Guys who are too scared to try to make a play.

I love Al Horford but if you think his back to the basket game is more important to this team than Smoove then you're smoking something. Horford is a player but he has a limited offensive game. In fact, I think Horford and Smoove are perfect complements. They both look much better playing together than seperately.