Hawks should consider making moves.

[Diesel]

Just heard that Orlando said that anybody is tradable for Melo or CP3.

This is a team thinking about matchups with Boston, Miami, Dallas, and LAL. I know we're sitting around wondering if we have the right coach, but if Orlando gets either Melo or CP3, it could spell dynasty. The way I see it, Boston made moves to beat Orlando and Miami. However, nobody has made moves to stop us. We have to think about a move that would guarantee us a spot in the top 3 of this conference.

[spotatl]

We have to think about a move that would guarantee us a spot in the top 3 of this conference.

There is no player like that available for what the Hawks could give up. Chris Paul may have been but he isn't available. Even if the Hawks got Carmelo that wouldn't guarantee them top 3.

[macdaddy]

I agree we have to make some kind of move this year. I'm optimistic about this team but its not a championship contender. Everyone knows that. We don't have to get CP3 but I'm sure we can get somebody for a combination of Craw1 or 2/Teague/Marvin and a pick. I don't think we can afford to trade Horf or Smoove. If someone would trade for Joe I'd consider it. Maybe the Knicks can hang around the playoffs long enough to think Joe and Amare can take them places. Of course I don't know who'd we want off the Knicks. I'm not familiar with any of those guys.

[Joker]

There is no player like that available for what the Hawks could give up. Chris Paul may have been but he isn't available. Even if the Hawks got Carmelo that wouldn't guarantee them top 3.

I agree, if we traded for Melo, we would have to trade Smith which would be counterproductive. If we got back Melo and Nene, that's a different story.

[sturt]

As I'm sure has been brought out under some thread by now...

Under ordinary circumstances, one would expect to see Sund doing his best to make a deal for his 1st round pick and using the trade exception to gain a young player who has yet to break out. After all, he wouldn't want to see that trade exception go to waste if he could possibly keep from it.

But this isn't ordinary circumstances since we're sitting at less than a million under the luxury tax line. Thus, if he were to pick up someone else, he would have to be persuaded that they're worth x-amount more than their contract since he'd be committing to the extra expense.

I don't think he's dealing Crawford and/or Mo unless and until there's some tipping point that emerges over time--namely, an injury on our side or on someone else's such that someone feels sufficient desperation to make a sweetheart deal.

[Wretch]

Needs to happen.

BUT...

The bottom line is that the player we need is going to cost us one of Smoove or Horford. We've got to be willing to deal one of those guys because Teague/Marvin/Crawford is not going to get it done. Now, there may be a gem out there somewhere and the team dealing might not know it. I think that's a more realistic expectation. We need to be digging around teams trying to find that underused SF or SG moving JJ to SF in this scenario.

Which really makes me think about benching Marvin and starting Crawford. I know it's just downright blasphemy around here to talk about it, but for a while now that's been a thought I can't shake. We get more firepower in the starting lineup, while Marvin gets more responsibility being the focus of the 2nd unit.

At the very least, I think Drew should experiment with it. Points off the bench be damned.

[gsuteke]

I don't think the owners will go into the tax and I can't blame them when I look at all the empty seats.

[spotatl]

For Carmelo I think they would pay the tax. He would pay for himself- he would absolutely own this town. But that said I don't think he would resign because he wouldn't trust the ASG to continue to spend what it takes to contend.

[Swatguy]

December 15th is approaching and our best opportunity will be those ten days before Christmas. Joe may give the spurs the edge for there championship and Parker is the Point we need (and available).

[gsuteke]

Joe's contract is untradeable

[Antmillennium]

Joe's contract is untradeable

Signing Joe to that contract was a very, very bad decision.

[KB21]

Needs to happen.

BUT...

The bottom line is that the player we need is going to cost us one of Smoove or Horford. We've got to be willing to deal one of those guys because Teague/Marvin/Crawford is not going to get it done. Now, there may be a gem out there somewhere and the team dealing might not know it. I think that's a more realistic expectation. We need to be digging around teams trying to find that underused SF or SG moving JJ to SF in this scenario.

Which really makes me think about benching Marvin and starting Crawford. I know it's just downright blasphemy around here to talk about it, but for a while now that's been a thought I can't shake. We get more firepower in the starting lineup, while Marvin gets more responsibility being the focus of the 2nd unit.

At the very least, I think Drew should experiment with it. Points off the bench be damned.

I disagree with this mainly because the team is so bad defensively when Mike Bibby, Joe Johnson, and Jamal Crawford are on the floor together that it offsets any increase in offensive performance they have. The Hawks are better on the year defensively when Jamal Crawford is not on the floor. Plus, you are talking about replacing a guy who is a decent rebounder (Marvin Williams 16.4 DRB%) with a guy who is an abysmal rebounder (Jamal Crawford 5.3 DRB%). Plus, the combo of Jamal Crawford and Mike Bibby are the worst defensive guard combo in the NBA right now. They should hardly ever be on the court together. What Larry should be doing is playing Jeff Teague more despite his offensive issues because he is the only player on the team that can guard opposing point guards.

And yes, Joe johnson's contract is already looking like an albatross. They should have let him walk and built the team aroun Al and Josh.

[terrell]

Phillys cleaning house. Collins wants to rebuild.

How bout Mo and Jamal's expiring contracts and a 1st, for Iggy and Louis Williams?

Bibby/JJ/Iggy/Josh/Al

Williams/JC2/Marvin/Powell/Twin

Teague/Zaza

Makes sense for both teams. We need a GOOD backup pg, and more production from the sf spot.

They need cap space and draft picks.

Then we can use Teague and the TPE for another big.

Thing is, will the ASG be willing to pay the rest of Iggy's salary?

Thoughts?

[Wretch]

I disagree with this mainly because the team is so bad defensively when Mike Bibby, Joe Johnson, and Jamal Crawford are on the floor together that it offsets any increase in offensive performance they have. The Hawks are better on the year defensively when Jamal Crawford is not on the floor. Plus, you are talking about replacing a guy who is a decent rebounder (Marvin Williams 16.4 DRB%) with a guy who is an abysmal rebounder (Jamal Crawford 5.3 DRB%). Plus, the combo of Jamal Crawford and Mike Bibby are the worst defensive guard combo in the NBA right now. They should hardly ever be on the court together. What Larry should be doing is playing Jeff Teague more despite his offensive issues because he is the only player on the team that can guard opposing point guards.

And yes, Joe johnson's contract is already looking like an albatross. They should have let him walk and built the team aroun Al and Josh.

The numbers don't lie. But...

I'm not worried about rebounding from the SF spot at all. Anything we get from that spot is a bonus IMO. I would also trade Craw's impact scoring for Marvin's boards any day of the week. Moreover, the role of the 2nd unit is to hold the fort down long enough to give the starters a breather so they can get back in there and do their job. That said, I have to think that defense and rebounding are far more important to the 2nd unit (preventing comebacks, stopping the lead from buidling, etc.), so all the more reason to plant the "Golden One" right there. Factoring in that Smith and Horford are both better than average defenders and rebounders, it's not even a concern at all if Craw comes into the starting lineup and gives us 1 rpg. This also says nothing of the fact that JJ is a very good rebounder for a guard. If anything, we need to be concerned about effort on the boards ACROSS the board. Specifically, as an athletic player, and as our starting PF, it's FAR more important for Josh Smith to be producing decent rebounding numbers on BOTH ends.

On the flip side of this, we can all go around and around until we're blue in the face (and we do that here enough anyways, lol). But the bottom line is that we ain't going anywhere without two guys in the starting lineup that are absolutely capable of producing big time buckets on a consistent basis. Much as I love all they do, neither Horf nor Smoove is that and if we're not moving either of them for a player like that, then our 2nd scoring option (or 1st if you depending upon your opinion on JJ) has to come from either the 1 spot or the 3 spot. No if/ands/buts about it.

I think we'd all love for Teague to be a poor man's Chris Paul. We'd all love for Marvin to be "James Worthy with a jump shot." But, I digress there... We keep this team intact, as is, then we have to do something about a consistent scoring option besides Joe Johnson (who has been sucking eggs this season and is all the more reason why we need another option).

...and I just have to harp on this for a second, because I know there are people who are going to throw this out there. Before you guys chime in, you will not find a bigger supporter of rebounding, defense, and hustle. It is what separates the good from the elite and yes, it wins championships and my preference is to ALWAYS have a coach that stresses this. But I can think of one team in the past 30 years that has done anything of significance in the NBA without 2 guys that quite simply, get it done offensively. That being the '03 Pistons...and they had Billups, Hamilton, and Wallace - an OFFENSIVE core (saying nothing of Tayshwn Prince) that I would EASILY swap for JJ, Smove, and Horf. That team beat the brakes off of a dominant Lakers team and there is no question that they got it done mostly on the other end (and they also credit Mike Woodson for that).

Still, they are the exception and not the rule...and regardless, we are nowhere near that good defensively and would be fooling ourselves if we are thinking we will ever be (sans Marvin's starting spot or no). And if management is serious about winning then some tough decisions are going to have to be made (usually, I would thrown in a "or someone has to step up", but we have been waiting on that someone for YEARS now). I'm fairly certain that the tough decision is going to start with what to do about the SF spot.

You guys know what winning teams do in this situation? They make something happen. LA brings in Shaq, Gasol, Artest (who won it for them last year)... Those Pistons brought in Sheed. Boston went out and brought in Garnett and Allen. Miami dumped everything for LBJ and Bosh. The bulls brought in Rodman. The Rockets brought in Drexler. And on and on and on and on... While we have traditionally sat on our hands, nickel and diming ourselves to death. Begging Rick Fox to join us. Waiting on Hendu. Waiting on Marvin. Looking for that scoring 2 guard for JT. And on and on and on...suffering playoff asswhoopin after playoff asswhoopin.

I have all the confidence in the world in this system and I believe we'll be a better playoff team - putting up a good fight in the 2nd round. That is our ceiling. We want to go higher? We're keeping Horf and Smoove? Bench or trade Marvin for something more productive at the 3. Or *yawn* hope that Marvin can give us a consistent 15+/8+(...damn, I can't believe I'm still saying that after all these years). Otherwise, trade a piece of the core and bring us back something that can give us more of a personality.

Hawks should consider making moves.

No doubt, Diesel.

(editied Pierce for Allen because i'm a ranting dumbass...lol)

Edited November 30, 2010 by Wretch

[ATLSmith]

Phillys cleaning house. Collins wants to rebuild.

How bout Mo and Jamal's expiring contracts and a 1st, for Iggy and Louis Williams?

Bibby/JJ/Iggy/Josh/Al

Williams/JC2/Marvin/Powell/Twin

Teague/Zaza

Makes sense for both teams. We need a GOOD backup pg, and more production from the sf spot.

They need cap space and draft picks.

Then we can use Teague and the TPE for another big.

Thing is, will the ASG be willing to pay the rest of Iggy's salary?

Thoughts?

I haven't had time to really look at viable trades but if Philly is cleaning house then I'd take Jrue Holiday... for something... A bag of chips maybe?

I've often wondered if the Hawks management are just waiting for another team to implode so they can pick up the pieces for cheap.

Arenas has proved that he can still play. I wonder if the Wiz would be willing to trade him to a division rival now that they have Wall.

[terrell]

Dont think they'll give up Holiday.

[macdaddy]

Waiting for another team to implode and picking up the pieces for cheap is how everyone of those big time players was moved. But they only ever move to LA, Boston, Miami. Detroit got Sheed so we can hope for something like that. The other teams just have franchise players fall in their laps. I don't see that happening to us.

Think about that though. If we could acquire a player like Sheed or Pau for a draft pick or a prospect. Everyone here says we have to give up Smoove or Al but those are two elite players that were acquired for nothing but cap relief and picks.

[Wretch]

Waiting for another team to implode and picking up the pieces for cheap is how everyone of those big time players was moved. But they only ever move to LA, Boston, Miami. Detroit got Sheed so we can hope for something like that. The other teams just have franchise players fall in their laps. I don't see that happening to us.

Think about that though. If we could acquire a player like Sheed or Pau for a draft pick or a prospect. Everyone here says we have to give up Smoove or Al but those are two elite players that were acquired for nothing but cap relief and picks.

Not necessarily...Boston mortgaged the farm for Ray Allen and Garnett. Hornacek was a young guard who was straight up MURDERING fools in Phoenix before he was swapped with a couple of players for Barkley. Sacramento got better when they made a (seemingly) even swap of White Chocolate for Bibbs. Other players are picked up through shrewed cap maneuvering and fa'cy. I'd agree that we'd need a little bit of luck and some finagling (maybe a lot), but the recipe isn't always catch a break.

Still, I think something needs to be done before we REALLY get backed into a corner and guys lose value or become untradeable.

[macdaddy]

Not necessarily...Boston mortgaged the farm for Ray Allen and Garnett. Hornacek was a young guard who was straight up MURDERING fools in Phoenix before he was swapped with a couple of players for Barkley. Sacramento got better when they made a (seemingly) even swap of White Chocolate for Bibbs. Other players are picked up through shrewed cap maneuvering and fa'cy. I'd agree that we'd need a little bit of luck and some finagling (maybe a lot), but the recipe isn't always catch a break.

Still, I think something needs to be done before we REALLY get backed into a corner and guys lose value or become untradeable.

I agree with that last statement. I'm just saying that great players can be acquired without giving up Smoove or Horford. It may be difficult but it happens almost every year. I think the type of move your suggesting is the way to go for the Hawks. Acquiring a really good player who hasn't established himself yet or hasn't caught on somewhere. Like Utah with Al Jefferson:

On July 13th 2010, Jefferson was traded to the Utah Jazz for two future first round picks and center Kosta Koufos

[Sothron]

The only player we could get even somewhat realistically get is Melo and he's the only one I think the NBA fans living in Atlanta who don't come to games would actually pay to see play in person.