We need to make it permanent!....Jason Collins mind as well start

[JTB]

I know LD only use the lineup of:

bibby

johnson

smith

horford

collins

only for bigger centers in the NBA most of the time but I think he should make it a permanent lineup. I mean this lineup is better defensively and gets alot more rebounds than the current starters. Offensively I wouldnt worry about the team the motion works great and they have bought into it though they sometimes find themselves just sitting and watching but hell thats mainly cause JJ is back but it will stop.....hopefully.

On the plus side Marvin has been doing pretty good with jamal crawford coming off the bench and I feel it will continue if we keep marvin there! And honestly this lineup will just flat out to me produce more wins against teams with bigger and smaller centers! So Jason Collins should start, we are in the part of the season where changes need to be made, which LD does but this change should be made permanently.

What do you think ATL Hawksquawk?

[Joker]

No and No. Marvin better at SF than anyone on our team by a mile. Collins had a good game last night but of the time he's inept unless he's playing positional defense.

[JackB1]

Trade Smith for a PG or C. That's a better solution. Collins needs to be better offensively to warrant a starting spot all the time.

[spotatl]

I still can't believe that people think Collins should be starting. Its just astounding to me.

[exodus]

I still can't believe that people think Collins should be starting. Its just astounding to me.

To be fair only 2 people have voted yes.

[Popeye]

This would be my starting 5.......

Teague

Joe

Smoove

Horford

Collins

all the f*****ing time....... We are not gonna get anywhere with Bibby starting and playing 30min a game......

BENCH

Bibby

Jamal

MArvin

Powell

Zaza

+ evans and Wilkins

[Diesel]

No and No. Marvin better at SF than anyone on our team by a mile. Collins had a good game last night but of the time he's inept unless he's playing positional defense.

Marvin has had 5 years to make an impact. He has been consistently inconsistent. We bench him and he stops deferring and starts producing. If we put him back in the starting lineup, he goes back to being Sorry Marvin.

Also, since you mentioned the effect that moving Smoove to Sf has (which is not much because Marvin provides no impact), let's also discuss Horf. Horf is not in foul trouble so much. Horf loves the high post and can hit that shot. Horf plays better as a 4.. He's prototypical there. He's normally overmatched at the 5.

[gsuteke]

I don't understand why people are so adamant about smoove not playing sf. He has no inside game whatsoever and he prefers to hang out on the perimeter and shoot jumpers. And he's improved his jumper.

Seriously why not smoove at sf in more than a 5 word response?

[Diesel]

I don't understand why people are so adamant about smoove not playing sf. He has no inside game whatsoever and he prefers to hang out on the perimeter and shoot jumpers. And he's improved his jumper.

Seriously why not smoove at sf in more than a 5 word response?

Hell, you can put Joe at Sf and make up a new position called Rover for Smoove if you want. We can run a box and 1 zone defense or a triangle and 2... The truth is that there are no real reasons why people don't want Smoove at the 3. They believe that having him there gives him the green light on shooting threes however, I see no difference between Smoove at Sf and Smoove at PF. As you said, he doesn't have an inside game. The only difference is at PF, he tried not to shoot as many 3s. That's not a matter of position, that's a matter of command. At this point, if you put him back at pF, he will still shoot the longball. It's who he is. The more you tell him not to, the more he will try to do it to prove that he can. Bottom line, Smoove is broken. We can call him a C if it makes you feel better, he will still get outside to take a jumper.

[exodus]

I don't understand why people are so adamant about smoove not playing sf. He has no inside game whatsoever and he prefers to hang out on the perimeter and shoot jumpers. And he's improved his jumper.

Seriously why not smoove at sf in more than a 5 word response?

I guess you missed all of last season if you think Smith has no inside game. How do you think he shot 50% from the field last year while shooting 28% on jumpers?

Playing the 3 takes him away from the basket on defense, taking away his ability to help out inside on defense which is the strongest part of his game. Smith's shooting/ball handling/man D sucks at the 3. He is not a perimeter player. The farther Smith is from the basket the less effective he is.

In case you haven't noticed Smiths jumper has been cooling off (but he hasn't stopped putting them up) which is why he is shooting 40% from the field, 27% from 3 over his last 10 games.

[High5]

Last night showed again why Josh has no business on the perimeter. All of his offensive impact was made going towards the basket. His jump shooting luck has run out.

[MaceCase]

I guess you missed all of last season if you think Smith has no inside game. How do you think he shot 50% from the field last year while shooting 28% on jumpers?

Playing the 3 takes him away from the basket on defense, taking away his ability to help out inside on defense which is the strongest part of his game. Smith's shooting/ball handling/man D sucks at the 3. He is not a perimeter player. The farther Smith is from the basket the less effective he is.

In case you haven't noticed Smiths jumper has been cooling off (but he hasn't stopped putting them up) which is why he is shooting 40% from the field, 27% from 3 over his last 10 games.

They missed the last 3 seasons apparently. This is all just nutty, due to their agenda against Marvin, plain unwillingness to realize either Al or Smoove will have to be traded to improve the team, or paranoia of Dwight they are willing to make permanent the inverse of moving Al to center by moving Smoove to SF. The clear difference being that Al is an allstar at C whereas I doubt entirely Smoove can be an allstar at SF.

[gsuteke]

Smoove gets a lot of transition points and put backs. That explains last year's fg numbers.

Don't try to tell me he has any post game of consequence. He can't back down power forwards under the basket. He has no post move of consequence.

Hell I'm not a proponent of playing Josh at the 3 I just want the strongest lineup put out there and IMO marvin should be playing off the bench and Al is probably the most important player on this team.

Al is a 4 - let's stop dancing around the obvious.

And Josh is WAY more productive than Marvin no matter where he's on the floor.

Edited December 29, 2010 by gsuteke

[niremetal]

Al is a 4 - let's stop dancing around the obvious.

NBA coaches voted Horford the second best 5 in the East last year. Let's stop dancing around the obvious.

[exodus]

Smoove gets a lot of transition points and put backs. That explains last year's fg numbers.

Don't try to tell me he has any post game of consequence. He can't back down power forwards under the basket. He has no post move of consequence.

Hell I'm not a proponent of playing Josh at the 3 I just want the strongest lineup put out there and IMO marvin should be playing off the bench and Al is probably the most important player on this team.

Al is a 4 - let's stop dancing around the obvious.

And Josh is WAY more productive than Marvin no matter where he's on the floor.

So are you saying that Smiths putbacks and transition points suddenly stopped this year?

Now with the mention of Marvin we find the true agenda. Predictable as sunrise.

Last year Smith set up camp on the right block. His strongest move was turning left to the middle for his jump hook. He because so effective with this that teams started overplaying his left strongly, forcing him baseline. At first he would spin quickly and shoot too fast when going to his right leading to a lot of misses. All he needed to do is keep his dribble alive and he could have dunks routinely.

Edited December 29, 2010 by exodus

[gsuteke]

Here is the bottom line whether you like it or not -

Marvin sucks. I've defended him against Diesel and Walter back in the day but through the years and coaching changes he is still the weakest link in the starting lineup.

Al horford is an OK center. He's rated 2nd best amongst eastern conference coaches because there is a serious lack of skilled centers in the eastern conference. David Robinson for example would dominate Al through no fault of his own. On the flip side Al is fantastic when he isn't matched up on a bigger and heavier center.

When we face Orlando in the playoffs the Hawks have a much better chance starting Collins (a legit center) and horford at the 4.

Horford is the key to this team's success not Joe Johnson.

I hope Drew takes a long look at his lineup.

[Diesel]

So are you saying that Smiths putbacks and transition points suddenly stopped this year?

Now with the mention of Marvin we find the true agenda. Predictable as sunrise.

Last year Smith set up camp on the right block. His strongest move was turning left to the middle for his jump hook. He because so effective with this that teams started overplaying his left strongly, forcing him baseline. At first he would spin quickly and shoot too fast when going to his right leading to a lot of misses. All he needed to do is keep his dribble alive and he could have dunks routinely.

So in order to start Marvin, we're willing to allow Horf to be overmatched and out of position. Make Smoove play a position that is totally against his nature. And bench better players and players that make more sense.

What do you mean Diesel? Joe Johnson is 240 lbs and we have him chasing SGs.

Horf is really about 6'9 and we have him guarding Centers that are 7 feet and taller.

Jason Collins is a capable big man and we have him on the bench while Lopez and Oneal run roughshot over our frontcourt.

Jamal Crawford is one of the best scorers in the game and we have him on the bench resting Marvin.

Then when we change the order and see that it does work.... You still say... NO Put Marvin back.

Who is it that has the agenda again?

More than an agenda, it's a CON freakin Spiracy.

[gsuteke]

So in order to start Marvin, we're willing to allow Horf to be overmatched and out of position. Make Smoove play a position that is totally against his nature. And bench better players and players that make more sense.

What do you mean Diesel? Joe Johnson is 240 lbs and we have him chasing SGs.

Horf is really about 6'9 and we have him guarding Centers that are 7 feet and taller.

Jason Collins is a capable big man and we have him on the bench while Lopez and Oneal run roughshot over our frontcourt.

Jamal Crawford is one of the best scorers in the game and we have him on the bench resting Marvin.

Then when we change the order and see that it does work.... You still say... NO Put Marvin back.

Who is it that has the agenda again?

More than an agenda, it's a CON freakin Spiracy.

I'm not going over the top conspiracy but the guy has a point.

And its hard to argue against if you watch the games.

[Kimsey]

Al horford is an OK center. He's rated 2nd best amongst eastern conference coaches because there is a serious lack of skilled centers in the eastern conference. David Robinson for example would dominate Al through no fault of his own.

Whoa! DR is a top 10 all time great Center, I saw him drop 70 when hand checking was all the rage. An in prime Admiral dominates any one. MW off the bench is only pluses for atl, it raises his trade value more as it showcases his ability vs. the second unit.

[foeteen14]

i just think collins should get more playing time. he's nothing special, but he is a center, he knows how to play the position. we win when he starts. marvin's not some ultimate game changer so who cares if he comes off the bench. he plays well with the 2nd unit anyway. he's more aggressive because most of the time he's the 2nd option. whether marvin starts or not doesn't matter, but having al play pf does. we should maximize what we have.