Of course it's ALWAYS Smoove

[Wretch]

The problem with Josh is many things - coaching, attitude, shot selection. The biggest problem keeps us all polarized in our opinions of him and honestly, I don't think this problem is completely Smoove's fault. Josh should be shooting behind 1) Joe Johnson 2) Al Horford and 3) Jamal Crawford. Sub Josh for the 3rd or 4th option at the 3 or 4 on any of the elite teams. Miami, San Antonio, Los Angeles... They would be beastly. He'd still be every bit the stat stuffer that he is here and he would still shut down the lane - but the players around him would make him even better.

Josh's biggest problem is the role he is put in here and the structure of our starting unit. The guy is an All-Star talent, but he is not an All-Star scorer. He shoots when he wants to shoot because other than Joe, there's really no other reliable scorer on this team. Is that Smoove's fault? Hell, if I was out there I'd be shooting too if nobody checked me! Moreover, the guy that should be our leader has no control over the team - on or off the court. Neither does Horford (though I am sure that will change within the next season).

If we had the right personnel (and I mean on and off the court), Smoove would be fantastic. As it is, we are just not getting the most out of him. I honestly believe that it isn't on Smoove to change. He is what he is. It's on the players, coaches, and front office around him to change. Might sound dumb (building the team to suit Josh?), but until he is put into a situation that limits his offensive freedom - he's going to be the same inconsistent player he's always been.

[Guest]

This is what I don't like about Josh's game:

1. It's not that he takes jumpers, it's when he takes them. If they are in the flow of the offense fine, but when he jacks up a shot with 19 seconds left on the shot clock that's the problem.

2. Complaining about a foul call and not getting back on defense, then pouting thoughout the whole game.

3. Too many times he comes down the court and lounges around the 3-pt line - dude you are not Ray Allen - get in the post (and it doesn't have to be a deep post, he can use a mid-post) and call for the ball.

4. He has no handles and tries too often to dribble in traffic or bring the ball up court - you are not a PG - When Josh gets a rebound he should pass to a guard and run the floor on the wings for an easy play, too often him bringing the ball up creates a turnover.

5. Sometimes he seems so disengaged from what's going on during a game.

Every player have their issues, but Josh makes most of us madly fustrated because we all see the potential he has to be great when he is engaged and focused during games. Too many times he just makes me ...SMH.

[JackB1]

Josh's biggest problem is the role he is put in here and the structure of our starting unit.

^^^^^^^^^^

I call bullsh*t. Blaming the other 4 guys is something Josh himself would do, How come this "structure"

doesn't seem to bother Horford? Is it the other guys making him shoot 3's with 15 sec's on the clock? Is

it the other guys forcing him to dribble the ball up the court while Bibby is 5 feet away with his arms open?

Is it the other guys forcing Josh to quit playing Defense when he's not in the mood?

[NineOhTheRino]

How come this "structure" doesn't seem to bother Horford?

Every player reacts differently to bad coaching

[coachx]

Every player reacts differently to bad coaching

That is pretty weak.

The excuse machine is in full effect.

[tremor]

Yes, Josh isn't perfect and has some flaws, but so do other Hawks. Why is he bashed more than anyone else?

Why none of Josh critics tried to guess what numbers posted by HawkNJersey mean?

My guess - these are points scored by Josh and Joe in recent blow outs. Am I right?

[thecampster]

Yes, Josh isn't perfect and has some flaws, but so do other Hawks. Why is he bashed more than anyone else?

Why none of Josh critics tried to guess what numbers posted by HawkNJersey mean?

My guess - these are points scored by Josh and Joe in recent blow outs. Am I right?

I don't even have to look to know you are right.

[Supporter]

This years, Josh's lowest point totals were 8,6,2, and 1, and Joe's are 9,7,6, and 6.

[MaceCase]

The guy was a dominant post player the past two years shooting over half of his attempts in the paint and making them at a 65% clip. His career year, when every pundit and analyst were praising him and calling him an All Star snub he was scoring efficiently and continuously in the post with 64% of his offense coming in the paint. This year he completely flipped the script and turned that number upside down. Now only 40% of his offense comes in the post yet he is shooting at a career worst percentage there. What happened? It's not an improvement if you forget how to do one thing you were good at so you can do another. You don't become a better hitter by forgetting how to hit singles and protect the plate by striking out more to hit with power instead. You don't become a better CB in football by becoming a better ball hawk while forgetting entirely how to tackle. You become a better player when you add new wrinkles to an already existent game not as a complete replacement.

This is the most frustrating thing about him, he was on the launching pad to stardom with everyone out there noticing yet he chose to forget what got him to that point and decided to become some finesse player afraid of contact. As is, he has zero chance of repeating any of the awards he received last season and wasn't even a blip on the All Star discussion. That's on him, that's all on him. No amount of blame can be attributed to anyone else but Josh to make that drastic of a decision, not Joe, not Marvin, not Zaza and not Drew. Since his fans, of course, want to defend his decision to shoot more and are always quick to point out someone else and throw blame that direction, here's the list of guys on the team he hits Jumpers better than:

Zaza

Damien

Mo

And a Joe Johnson with an elbow injury/surgery.

Don't let that 3point % fool you unless you are all firm believers that Bruce Bowen was a great shooter. Perhaps if Josh is going to shoot he might as well just camp behind the line and make Brian Cook proud seeing as his entire game inside of there has deteriorated .

[HawkNJersey]

Yes, Josh isn't perfect and has some flaws, but so do other Hawks. Why is he bashed more than anyone else?

Why none of Josh critics tried to guess what numbers posted by HawkNJersey mean?

My guess - these are points scored by Josh and Joe in recent blow outs. Am I right?

Nope...has everything to do with Tuesday's game against Philly.

[DarnShadyRefs]

Guys the problem is two folds:

1) We lack an aggressive point guard that either breaks down defenses providing easy buckets for our bigs or is able to dribble penetrate to cause the defenses to recover guarding the wrong man to give the big with the mismatch the better basket.

2) Even though I too have a problem with Josh's shot selections, IT IS A MUST HE GETS USED TO MAKING ENOUGH OF EM! Have you guys not seen how the good teams prepare for the hawks in the playoffs? You don't think they also don't know they have to keep Josh away from from where he does the most damage? Playoff teams don't get to where they are without posessing the ability to take away something their opponent likes to do. Josh has seen this happen twice now. He doesn't want to be the weakest link on one end of the floor every post season. So I want him to shoot but like others I want him to take better shots.

[Seano]

I have no idea about Josh's intelligence level and I doubt anyone else here really does either. I mean it's not like that's an easy thing to quantify unless you actually know the person, so I find these personal shots at him calling him 'stupid' and such to be uncalled for and out of line. There is no need for that, no matter how frustrated with him you might be.

Anyway, I think it's pretty obvious he's very stubborn, and seems to have a desire and maybe even view himself as being a finesse player rather than a power one, whereas his strengths would seem to overwhelmingly indicate that he be a power player, and in that role as a power player playing in the paint on both offense and defense, he can be really be quite dominant. So he's like a square peg who for whatever reason is trying to make himself fit into a round hole, and rather than going with and emphasizing his natural strengths, far too often he seems to want to go against that, and that's what's so frustrating. If he would stick to his strengths, he has proven to a dynamic player and a true difference maker with a singular skill-set that makes him quite unique and also one of the better power players in the NBA, and in my opinion that's just being bull-headed and stubborn. He goes with what he desires to be rather than what his strengths would seem to indicate he ought to be.

[DJlaysitup]

the fact that you are trying to use ZAZA or POWELL or COLLINS is exactly why Josh catches so much flack and deserves it .

He had the most potential of anyone on the squad and people are realizing that the odds of him reaching that potential has dropped to maybe 5% . Nevermind the fact that he still is playing the game like some guy fresh out of high school not some well paid veteran ready to lead the team out of the first rd .

So while of course Josh put up better numbers than the scrubs you listed HES SUPPOSED TO and while he is still a very good player he is falling way short of the player everyone thought he would become and doesn't seem interested in becoming much else .

He should be pressed and pushed hard as possible as hes the key to this team either stalling out and free falling or making it out of the 2nd rd .

Sorry Crank - but - wrong, wrong and wrong.

The reason I compared Smoove to Marvin, Zaza, Powell, Collins is because they were the only bigs in the 76ers game to compare against. I can't compare him against Beidrins cause we didn't draft Beidrins and he isn't on our team.

Smoove had the "most potential" - really? :lol6: I think you meant to say Mr. Williams....Smoove was a shot-in- the-dark #17 pick - the second first round pick that year. A #17 is supposed to lead the team to a Championship?...when we p!ssed away a #5 (Shelden).

"He should be pressed and pushed hard as possible as he is the key to this team..."

What a hoot! Last time I looked Smoove doesn't have a $120m contract. :kickcan:

[Joker]

Guys the problem is two folds:

1) We lack an aggressive point guard that either breaks down defenses providing easy buckets for our bigs or is able to dribble penetrate to cause the defenses to recover guarding the wrong man to give the big with the mismatch the better basket.

2) Even though I too have a problem with Josh's shot selections, IT IS A MUST HE GETS USED TO MAKING ENOUGH OF EM! Have you guys not seen how the good teams prepare for the hawks in the playoffs? You don't think they also don't know they have to keep Josh away from from where he does the most damage? Playoff teams don't get to where they are without posessing the ability to take away something their opponent likes to do. Josh has seen this happen twice now. He doesn't want to be the weakest link on one end of the floor every post season. So I want him to shoot but like others I want him to take better shots.

1.

2. I agree, it's just the amount and understanding when it's in the flow of the offense and understanding to take it to the hole for an easy bucket or shoot a jumper that's low %. He also shoots when we need him to shoot the least at times in games. Jamal has the same issue but Jamal is much better at shooting than Josh.

[DJlaysitup]

The guy was a dominant post player the past two years shooting over half of his attempts in the paint and making them at a 65% clip. His career year, when every pundit and analyst were praising him and calling him an All Star snub he was scoring efficiently and continuously in the post with 64% of his offense coming in the paint. This year he completely flipped the script and turned that number upside down. Now only 40% of his offense comes in the post yet he is shooting at a career worst percentage there. What happened?....

I'll tell you exactly what happened CTC....we realized that we can't go 6-9 1/2 at center and 6-8 at PF and win in the NBA against good teams with bigger players.

The thing is.... it's not so much letting Smoove play SF - it's about getting AL time at the PF position. It isn't working out as well as it should because we simply don't have a solid center....and our guards are shot jackers who couldn't care less about having an advantage inside.

Still we have beaten ORL with the big lineup twice even with some of worst centers in the league. :kickcan:

[AHF]

I have no idea about Josh's intelligence level and I doubt anyone else here really does either. I mean it's not like that's an easy thing to quantify unless you actually know the person, so I find these personal shots at him calling him 'stupid' and such to be uncalled for and out of line. There is no need for that, no matter how frustrated with him you might be.

Anyway, I think it's pretty obvious he's very stubborn, and seems to have a desire and maybe even view himself as being a finesse player rather than a power one, whereas his strengths would seem to overwhelmingly indicate that he be a power player, and in that role as a power player playing in the paint on both offense and defense, he can be really be quite dominant. So he's like a square peg who for whatever reason is trying to make himself fit into a round hole, and rather than going with and emphasizing his natural strengths, far too often he seems to want to go against that, and that's what's so frustrating. If he would stick to his strengths, he has proven to a dynamic player and a true difference maker with a singular skill-set that makes him quite unique and also one of the better power players in the NBA, and in my opinion that's just being bull-headed and stubborn. He goes with what he desires to be rather than what his strengths would seem to indicate he ought to be.

Good posts on both subjects.

[thecampster]

I have no idea about Josh's intelligence level and I doubt anyone else here really does either. I mean it's not like that's an easy thing to quantify unless you actually know the person, so I find these personal shots at him calling him 'stupid' and such to be uncalled for and out of line. There is no need for that, no matter how frustrated with him you might be.

Anyway, I think it's pretty obvious he's very stubborn, and seems to have a desire and maybe even view himself as being a finesse player rather than a power one, whereas his strengths would seem to overwhelmingly indicate that he be a power player, and in that role as a power player playing in the paint on both offense and defense, he can be really be quite dominant. So he's like a square peg who for whatever reason is trying to make himself fit into a round hole, and rather than going with and emphasizing his natural strengths, far too often he seems to want to go against that, and that's what's so frustrating. If he would stick to his strengths, he has proven to a dynamic player and a true difference maker with a singular skill-set that makes him quite unique and also one of the better power players in the NBA, and in my opinion that's just being bull-headed and stubborn. He goes with what he desires to be rather than what his strengths would seem to indicate he ought to be.

You might want to check my other post on this subject. Josh had the highest GPA on the Basketball team his senior season at Oak Hill Academy.

Players on that team his senior year were Rajon Rondo, Dayshawn Wright, Brian Johnson, Brandon Jennings, Nolan Jennings, Alex Legion, Julian Vaughn and Howard Thompkins.

[DarnShadyRefs]

1.

2. I agree, it's just the amount and understanding when it's in the flow of the offense and understanding to take it to the hole for an easy bucket or shoot a jumper that's low %. He also shoots when we need him to shoot the least at times in games. Jamal has the same issue but Jamal is much better at shooting than Josh.

All I'm saying is these dynamics change come playoff time. I would rather josh improve his shot selection or make more of those ill advised shot with consistent confidence rather than keep treating him as if he should be only allowed to shoot at the end of a clock. WE WILL NEED JOSH MAKING JUMPSHOTS PPL!! Like it or not! He just needs to learn to take better shots. Top teams wont allow him to get comfortable in the post. They will continue to leave josh open so they can strengthen their help defense.

I wish LD will just play teague. He is so worried about teague making a jumpshot like bibby, setting up the offense like bibby that he forgets to tell Teague to just be is Dhamned self. He just needs to tell Teague to look to score first. Maybe he has that damon stoudemire complex...when coaches asked damon to look to setup offense and teammates first, he usually wound up on the bench......when the gave him the green light to look for his shot first...........he played more like a point gard.

[Joker]

All I'm saying is these dynamics change come playoff time. I would rather josh improve his shot selection or make more of those ill advised shot with consistent confidence rather than keep treating him as if he should be only allowed to shoot at the end of a clock. WE WILL NEED JOSH MAKING JUMPSHOTS PPL!! Like it or not! He just needs to learn to take better shots. Top teams wont allow him to get comfortable in the post. They will continue to leave josh open so they can strengthen their help defense.

I wish LD will just play teague. He is so worried about teague making a jumpshot like bibby, setting up the offense like bibby that he forgets to tell Teague to just be is Dhamned self. He just needs to tell Teague to look to score first. Maybe he has that damon stoudemire complex...when coaches asked damon to look to setup offense and teammates first, he usually wound up on the bench......when the gave him the green light to look for his shot first...........he played more like a point gard.

Yep, that's true.

Teague really can't start in the NBA at PG. Too much talent he going up v. and he's just too raw right now. He should be like Boston's Avery Bradley who is learning off the bench and in the NBDL. Atlanta PG's issue is really bad. You can tell you to look to score but you have to have the ability to do it at a this level. He doesn't yet. We can't ask him to do something he isn't capable of.

Maybe he has that damon stoudemire complex...when coaches asked damon to look to setup offense and teammates first, he usually wound up on the bench......when the gave him the green light to look for his shot first...........he played more like a point gard.

Not even. LD wants him to just play aggressive like a SG more than a PG just to get comfort in the position. Our offense doesn't use the PG being a facilitator too much, in fact this offense is actually favorable for Teague but he's not ready yet. He just needs more time to grow.

[DarnShadyRefs]

Yep, that's true.

Teague really can't start in the NBA at PG. Too much talent he going up v. and he's just too raw right now. He should be like Boston's Avery Bradley who is learning off the bench and in the NBDL. Atlanta PG's issue is really bad. You can tell you to look to score but you have to have the ability to do it at a this level. He doesn't yet. We can't ask him to do something he isn't capable of.

Not even. LD wants him to just play aggressive like a SG more than a PG just to get comfort in the position. Our offense doesn't use the PG being a facilitator too much, in fact this offense is actually favorable for Teague but he's not ready yet. He just needs more time to grow.

I disagree with your assessment of Teague. He is still an unknown quantity. Unlike the hordes of the past guards we've drafted, he has looked the most promising. Lou Williams, Darren Collinson, Jrue Holliday ...etc...didn't enter the league in their first few minutes of playing time looking like pistol pete...did they? The one thing they got that we can honestly say Teague hasnt is a coach that allowed them to play over enough stretch of games under reasonable amount of playing time to find their niche. Judging by what I see from his personality, he is a slow starter internally. Drew will have to play him for a 2 week stretch of at least 15mins a game to see what he can contribute to the team. If he doesn't amount to the next best thing then I KNOW he could be a respectable backup combo guard.

How many teams have ever asked about a trade for acie law or salim? At least Teague had sacremento's interest. Even Chuck was impressed by his play against boston on TNT.

I hate our coaches use the "we dont have time to develop guys on a playoff/contender team" excuse when teams like dallas continue to find jj baretta and that other french sounding name guard "borbois(sp?)", San Antonio finds blair, Heck dallas was even playing some guy that was just working as a custodian a while ago.....................This mess doesn't make sense!!