What message would Sund / ASG be sending if no trades are made?

[NineOhTheRino]

Woody! I think they would be waiting to see if Drew can be the difference in this team being a 2nd rnd pushover versus an actual contender.

[spotatl]

"We care more about Money than Wins"

[Sothron]

"We care more about Money than Wins"

+1. All they care about is qualifying for the playoffs. Refusing to pay the luxury tax proves they don't care about winning.

[Wretch]

Money & having a winning team is good enough. Bottom line.

They see no chance of obtaining a marquee player through free agency or trade. Their answer is that Joe Johnson is good enough. They believe that Josh Smith is productive enough and marketable to the hometown; they know what kind of impact he would have on a contender and figure that we might as well keep him. They believe Horford will be the heart and soul of this team within 2 years, he's already a two time All-Star, leading the league in FG%, and he's only getting better. They believe that Marvin still has potential - and he does; but they are more optimistic than the realists amongst the fan base that do not believe he will ever see that potential.

They believe that the team is on pace to win around 50 games. They figure if Woody can coach them to 3rd in the East, and into the 2nd round, then getting the team close to that mark with Larry Drew in his 1st year is better than good enough. The fact that he is on the cheapest paycheck amongst his peers and on a 2 year leash makes it even better.

They are delighted to have the NBA's best 6th man coming off the bench, but they are not interested in breaking the bank to keep him. They see Jordan Crawford as an up and coming talent that could potentially fill that role. Moreover, with a few minor tweaks (bringing cheap vets, benching Marvin, increased roles for bench players in Craw's absence, etc.) would improve the scoring of the 2nd unit.

Already losing money, there is absolutely no way they are going to let this team sink. Which means, they will take absolutely no risks. They will not make a move that will endanger their playoff status. Which means...they will not move a veteran, productive, All Star caliber core member for a player with potential in a losing situation.

Long story short, they like where they are. They will ride this out for the next 5-6 years until the wheels fall off. At which point, being the businessmen they are, they will have had ample time to put together a bailout plan - i.e., sell the team or sell out to a majority buyer.

That is the message the ASG would be sending if they do nothing before the trade deadline.

Sund will not be sending any messages as everything he says is fed to him on a teleprompter and his every move is dictated by marionette strings.

[Gray Mule]

SET AND SATISFIED

[NineOhTheRino]

SET AND SATISFIED

This is the Bulls allowing MJ and Phil to walk after winning a 6th because it was deemed financially unfeasible to keep winning titles. We're 10x worse though since the Hawks have yet to sniff a title.

Edited February 15, 2011 by NineOhTheRino

[Vol4ever]

+1. All they care about is qualifying for the playoffs. Refusing to pay the luxury tax proves they don't care about winning.

This says it all folks!

[Admin]

+1. All they care about is qualifying for the playoffs. Refusing to pay the luxury tax proves they don't care about winning.

Or maybe it means they can't' afford to pay the tax? Or maybe it means that they haven't found a trade worth paying the tax for?

It's pretty easy to spend someone else's money as a fan but the truth is that the ASG probably realize that making a trade that will put them over the tax probably won't be enough to make them a championship contender so it's not worth paying $2 for every $1 over the tax line in addition to losing the money they get back from the league for being under the tax.

[niremetal]

Or maybe it means they can't' afford to pay the tax? Or maybe it means that they haven't found a trade worth paying the tax for?

It's pretty easy to spend someone else's money as a fan but the truth is that the ASG probably realize that making a trade that will put them over the tax probably won't be enough to make them a championship contender so it's not worth paying $2 for every $1 over the tax line in addition to losing the money they get back from the league for being under the tax.

Yyyyup.

That being said, it would send a message that they are blind, stupid, or delusional if they don't make a trade. It's clear at this point that this core won't be able to contend together. The team needs a trade now even if it's change for the sake of change, and even if it means a slight downgrade on paper. Right now, the whole is less than the sum of its parts and it's clear that the core's bad habits (Marvin disappearing, Josh's shot selection, etc) will not get better as long as they're together, so maintaining the "core" for the sake of continuity makes no sense.

Edited February 16, 2011 by niremetal

[CBAreject]

Nobody is considering the possibility that no trades that will improve the team are on the table. Well, let's say that in Sund's view there are no such trades. It's tough to make trades happen, and because of the cap, and the necessity to make salaries roughly match up, it likely isn't a "money" issue. If we had a shot at Nash, we'd have to send back as much salary as we took on, so it's not like we'd just be taking on an extra 10 mil or so.

Don't get me wrong...I think we have to make a trade to have any chance to advance beyond the FIRST ROUND this year. We will be one and done unless we get a PG before the deadline (and it doesn't have to be a star, necessarily). We could also use a big, especially if we draw Orlando in the first round, which is a virtual certainty. I think if we don't make a deal it will show Sund's lack of creativity, not his thriftiness or belief in our current players.

[Joker]

It's too early to really say, I really don't think ASG/Sund/LD would sit on this roster. You have good value in Jamal and Marvin and suitors. It's all about the right offer for either one.

If they don't, I would be exetremely disappointed. If I hear anything of serious note and I get the okay to talk about it, I will let you guys know. But right now, it seems like everyone is sizing up everyone and it will take a major team like Denver to make the first blow.

[Admin]

Yyyyup.

That being said, it would send a message that they are blind, stupid, or delusional if they don't make a trade. It's clear at this point that this core won't be able to contend together. The team needs a trade now even if it's change for the sake of change, and even if it means a slight downgrade on paper. Right now, the whole is less than the sum of its parts and it's clear that the core's bad habits (Marvin disappearing, Josh's shot selection, etc) will not get better as long as they're together, so maintaining the "core" for the sake of continuity makes no sense.

I don't know that we need to trade a piece of the "core" but I absolutely think that we need to package some of our end of the bench players and/or young guards with a draft pick or two and see what we can do to improve the PG or C spot or worst case at least upgrade our bench. Otherwise I don't see this team going very far at all in the playoffs, especially if things continue to play out like this where we'll be playing Orlando in the 1st round.

[Sothron]

Or maybe it means they can't' afford to pay the tax? Or maybe it means that they haven't found a trade worth paying the tax for?

It's pretty easy to spend someone else's money as a fan but the truth is that the ASG probably realize that making a trade that will put them over the tax probably won't be enough to make them a championship contender so it's not worth paying $2 for every $1 over the tax line in addition to losing the money they get back from the league for being under the tax.

They don't get to use that excuse every year they've owned the team. They never pay the luxury tax. They never engage in serious talks with other teams because in today's Twitter world we'd hear about it. They are more than content to sit on their hands, keep this "core" together and and make sure they don't pay the luxury tax.

You can keep defending the ASG for as long as you want but the rest of us have long seen through their smoke screen.

[Admin]

They don't get to use that excuse every year they've owned the team. They never pay the luxury tax. They never engage in serious talks with other teams because in today's Twitter world we'd hear about it. They are more than content to sit on their hands, keep this "core" together and and make sure they don't pay the luxury tax.

You can keep defending the ASG for as long as you want but the rest of us have long seen through their smoke screen.

So what if they don't pay the luxury tax, most teams don't pay it and it's disingenuous of you to claim that they're content to sit on their hands since they've made 2 quality trades in the last 3 years to improve the team and build around the core and we've improved as a team for what 6 straight years now? Sure I'd love for them to make a trade but if nothing out there makes sense for them financially why should they risk it when they've got a winning team that has continued to improve every year?

And no other team has gone through such long term legal troubles like the ASG have had which I'm sure have affected their pockets quite a bit. And I know as fans "the rest of you" don't care about reality but that doesn't change the fact that it's real.

[Sothron]

So what if they don't pay the luxury tax, most teams don't pay it and it's disingenuous of you to claim that they're content to sit on their hands since they've made 2 quality trades in the last 3 years to improve the team and build around the core and we've improved as a team for what 6 straight years now? Sure I'd love for them to make a trade but if nothing out there makes sense for them financially why should they risk it when they've got a winning team that has continued to improve every year?

And no other team has gone through such long term legal troubles like the ASG have had which I'm sure have affected their pockets quite a bit. And I know as fans "the rest of you" don't care about reality but that doesn't change the fact that it's real.

You lost me and anyone else reading this with your first nine words in that post. You don't win the title by not paying the luxury tax. Look at the teams who are considered the real elite every year and you'll see all of them paying the luxury tax. There may be a couple of exceptions spread out several years ago but the exceptions only prove the rule.

Who cares if you improve? So what? This was a 13 win team. Not hard to improve for that. Here's the real and only tangible question: is this team capable of winning a title? Answer: no. Was it capable any year we've been in the playoffs under the ASG? Answer: no. This team right now has no chance of winning a title or even making it past the second round of the playoffs.

The ASG may be content to count its money from selling draft picks and not paying the luxury tax but we as fans deserve better. This ownership has no intention of winning title. Its already been busted in national media for trying to secretly sell the Thrashers and cheat Atlanta fans out of their only hockey team. Their legal problems are their own fault for hiring an incompetent law firm that put together a bad contract in the first place. If they don't have the funds to run a team to TRULY compete for a title then they need to ante up and leave the table for the real high rollers to take over.

[Vol4ever]

So what if they don't pay the luxury tax, most teams don't pay it and it's disingenuous of you to claim that they're content to sit on their hands since they've made 2 quality trades in the last 3 years to improve the team and build around the core and we've improved as a team for what 6 straight years now? Sure I'd love for them to make a trade but if nothing out there makes sense for them financially why should they risk it when they've got a winning team that has continued to improve every year?

And no other team has gone through such long term legal troubles like the ASG have had which I'm sure have affected their pockets quite a bit. And I know as fans "the rest of you" don't care about reality but that doesn't change the fact that it's real.

If you cant afford to compete, then get out. I own a business and if I could not keep up with the competition I would sell. They have a asset in the professional sports team, and that does come with liabilities, but the good outweighs the bad and they simply will not spend to get to the next level, it's as simple as that.

[coachx]

If you cant afford to compete, then get out. I own a business and if I could not keep up with the competition I would sell. They have a asset in the professional sports team, and that does come with liabilities, but the good outweighs the bad and they simply will not spend to get to the next level, it's as simple as that.

Its not that simple. Now is a bad time to be a seller but a great time to be a buyer.

[Admin]

Paying the luxury tax doesn't guarantee anything other than you'll be paying twice as much for fringe players that may or may not help you win. In fact all but 1 team every year that pay the tax have their season end without being the champion. Do you think their fans are ok with the money the team spent? I'd bet their fans want them to spend even more because they can't look at the reality of the situation of how paying the tax is almost guaranteed to not pay off.

Sure I'd love if the ASG were Mark Cuban rich and could blow money like him but the fact is they increase payroll every year, the team wins more games every year, and yet they're still trashed on here for being "cheap" ... Even with a 70 million dollar payroll and the nba's highest paid player.

[spotatl]

Personally I don't blame the team for not wanting to pay the luxury tax for a MLE player. This team is not a MLE player away from taking the next step. And I do think the team would be willing to pay the luxury tax for a true superstar. The harder decisions for me would be on someone like Billups who would be a dramatic upgrade and would really help the team but its also not clear that he really puts the team into the mix for a championship.

Edited February 16, 2011 by spotatl

[NineOhTheRino]

Personally I don't blame the team for not wanting to pay the luxury tax for a MLE player. This team is not a MLE player away from taking the next step. And I do think the team would be willing to pay the luxury tax for a true superstar. The harder decisions for me would be on someone like Billups who would be a dramatic upgrade and would really help the team but its also not clear that he really puts the team into the mix for a championship.

I would be very disappointed if the Hawks don't make a run at CP3 or Howard in '12. Those are not the type of players you nickle and dime over. You spend the money upfront knowing that you will get return on your investment.

Edited February 16, 2011 by NineOhTheRino