Hawks won't sign anyone before March 12th.

[mrhonline]

Clarification from Shamsports:

Atlanta's trade for Kirk Hinrich did not push them into luxury tax territory, but it did push them really, really close to it. Specifically, their tax number now stands at $70,140,069, a mere $166,932 below the luxury tax. They also have little depth on the wings now, and they have only a 14 man roster, one of whom is the unsuitable Pape Sy. So if one or two players get injured, and they need to bring in some reinforcements, they will now struggle to do so. Indeed, if they want to sign someone to a minimum salary contract for the remainder of the season, they must wait until March 12th until they can do so without becoming luxury tax payers.

http://blog.shamspor...-and-other.html

By the way, that player would need to be waived by his current team by March 1st to be playoff-eligible.

Edited February 26, 2011 by mrhonline

[Joker]

They most likely wasn't signing with the Hawks.

[sturt]

But wait... if you go over the luxury tax by $400,000, that essentially means that you pay an additional $400,000 to the league, correct? My point being, that doesn't seem to be the kind of price that would necessarily keep a team that doesn't have one from signing a back-up SF.

Oh, and I'm certain that I read that if they're signed by March 1, they can be on the playoff roster.

Edited February 25, 2011 by sturt

[Sothron]

But wait... if you go over the luxury tax by $400,000, that essentially means that you pay an additional $400,000 to the league, correct? My point being, that doesn't seem to be the kind of price that would necessarily keep a team that doesn't have one from signing a back-up SF.

Oh, and I'm certain that I read that if they're signed by March 1, they can be on the playoff roster.

I don't think you understand how the luxury tax fully works. If you stay below the luxury tax you don't just avoid paying the luxury tax...the owners get a check for 3 million or so for avoiding the luxury tax. The ASG will not pay the luxury tax for any reason. This is why. That not just avoid the tax itself they have 3 million dollars coming back to them at the end of the season.

[BudBall]

Sigh, The Thrashers are preventing us from going into the tax. Hopefully they can sell them soon so they can just focus on the Hawks.

[DeacKillsaDevil]

I thought you could always sign someone for the Vet minimum

[niremetal]

I would hope they'd at least consider it if the right player came along. It would be a huge roll of the dice because they'll be out a ton of money if the team crashes out in the 1st/2nd round again. But it's worth the risk if it's a starting quality player at SF, PG or, to a lesser extent, C. I think the team actually has a shot against any of the East's teams now. But only if Josh and Al stay closer to the rim in the games that count. That, sadly, is something that can't be fixed by going over the tax line to sign a guy who fills a need, but such a signing might give us a bigger margin for error.

Edited February 25, 2011 by niremetal

[MrNique]

I didn't realize we were so close to the line.

Anyway, it looks like this is a partial list of who could be bought out:

Troy Murphy

Jared Jeffries

T.J. Ford

Jason Kapono

Pryzbilla (possibly)

Darius Songalia

Anthony Carter or Renaldo Balkman in NY

Jamario Moon (i read somewhere and can't find it again that he is a possibility)

Edited to add:

Leon Powe (who was just waived/bought out, not sure which)

Edited February 25, 2011 by MrNique

[sturt]

Sothron, I get that, but hadn't really paid attention to how much of a bonus the team would get. I see from a little research the number has varied a bit, but most recently ASG collected about a $4 million check. Still, that just wouldn't seem to be such a major outlay in the larger scheme of things.

But then, I found my way to this page on the Forbes site... and I guess I have to concur... it's probably a bit nuts to edge over the luxury tax threshold when you've taken losses the last two years by an average of $4.5 million.

Hate that. Really do.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2010/32/basketball-valuations-11_Atlanta-Hawks_323662.html

Edited February 25, 2011 by sturt

[mrhonline]

I would hope they'd at least consider it if the right player came along.

It would cost them somewhere between $4M and $5M (actual salary cost, luxury tax fee, and loss of luxury tax kickback) to sign that player for the rest of the season.

IOW, it's not happening.

[TomSelleck]

I would hope they'd at least consider it if the right player came along. It would be a huge roll of the dice because they'll be out a ton of money if the team crashes out in the 1st/2nd round again. But it's worth the risk if it's a starting quality player at SF, PG or, to a lesser extent, C. I think the team actually has a shot against any of the East's teams now. But only if Josh and Al stay closer to the rim in the games that count. That, sadly, is something that can't be fixed by going over the tax line to sign a guy who fills a need, but such a signing might give us a bigger margin for error.

I just don't see another "starting quality player" being the difference between winning and losing in the first round of the playoffs. The Hawks' problem isn't with their starting quality players, it's with their star quality players. When you measure Joe Johnson as the Hawks' #1 star up against all the other eastern contenders' #1 stars, he's arguably last. Until the Hawks can find a player to legitimately match up with Dwight Howard, LeBron James, Derrick Rose, and Rajon Rondo, they'll be pretenders.

[mrhonline]

Thought it was interesting that the Hawks now have the 9th highest salary (in terms of cap hit, at least) in the NBA.

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/index.jsp

[thecampster]

Thought it was interesting that the Hawks now have the 9th highest salary (in terms of cap hit, at least) in the NBA.

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/index.jsp

MrH...a question or 2...if they waived someone (say Etan)....does that affect that luxury tax situation? Especially if that player is picked up.

[thecampster]

MrH...a question or 2...if they waived someone (say Etan)....does that affect that luxury tax situation? Especially if that player is picked up.

forget it...found my own answer

In the summer of 2005, the new CBA provided an amnesty clause: a one-time opportunity for each team to waive one, and only one, player and avoid having him count against the team's luxury tax calculation. The amnesty provision only affected the team's luxury tax status, though. The waiving team must continue to pay the player, his salary continues to count against their salary cap, and all other salary calculations are unaffected. However, the team may not re-sign or re-acquire the player for the length of the terminated contract. In all other respects, the player is treated just like any other waived player.

So for example (if I understand this right), the Hawks could waive Etan Thomas (1,223,166 million) to move under the Luxury tax (once a year deal) and then sign a different waived player to a vet minimum deal if it helps them.

So going off "MRNiques" list

Troy Murphy

Jared Jeffries

T.J. Ford

Jason Kapono

Pryzbilla (possibly)

Darius Songalia

Anthony Carter or Renaldo Balkman in NY

Jamario Moon (i read somewhere and can't find it again that he is a possibility)

one could possibly be added if we waived someone to make room for their vet minimum if they took that to play.

[mrhonline]

MrH...a question or 2...if they waived someone (say Etan)....does that affect that luxury tax situation? Especially if that player is picked up.

If that player is picked up on waivers by another team, then it wouldn't count against the cap. Unfortunately, I don't see any team being interested in Thomas, Armstrong, Powell, or Collins.

If they were not picked up, you just screwed yourself out of some roster depth.

[sturt]

So, it's not just a matter of waiving the player, they have to be picked up by someone else? I'm not seeing anything hinting at that in the cut-and-paste (I presume from Coon), but I don't pretend to know.

[frosgrim]

One caveat that I would add. What sort of attendance boost would you get if you pick up a guy that really pays dividends in W/L? For example, we get Murphy does he increase the W/L by 2 or 3? If so, does that translate into a deeper playoff run? Deeper run in the playoffs should equal more income than what is lost by going into the LT land.

This ASSUMES that fans will actually come out to see the Hawks. The ASG has such a horrid reputation right now, and the Hawks as well, I don't know if that assumption will hold.

[mrhonline]

So, it's not just a matter of waiving the player, they have to be picked up by someone else? I'm not seeing anything hinting at that in the cut-and-paste (I presume from Coon), but I don't pretend to know.

http://members.cox.n...larycap.htm#Q57

It's in there, but it's (too) complicated.

Edited February 25, 2011 by mrhonline

[AHF]

Great thread, mrhonline! This answers a lot of questions for people so I am going to sticky it.

[mrhonline]

I am going to sticky it.

Thanks! Thought it would be a bit egotistical if I did it myself.

One caveat to add - if any Hawks have performance incentives that are currently being counted against the cap that are not going to be met, then that might free up enough money to nab one vet. I know Marvin has some in his contract, because he was able to hit them last year...

Dunno about the other guys...