Al Horford: "Something needs to be done."

[NineOhTheRino]

Count me in the coalition. Did you see how awful we look with Craw running the point in the 4th quarter and how invisible our defense was?. I'll take Teague's mistakes over this any day.

What's funny is I agree with you. Honesty I think the team is doomed either way. With or without Teague the lineup is just a bunch of athletes running around with little direction. Sadly, I don't think Hinrich is the answer. Right now the hawks are stuck in PG hell.

Just thought of the Hawks NFL equivalent: The Minnesota Vikings.

Edited March 17, 2011 by NineOhTheRino

[BrazilianHawk]

Eh... fire Woody... :sarcastichand:

Of course. FIRE DREW!

Can't see the difference between them anymore. :alcoholic:

[MaceCase]

Count me in the coalition. Did you see how awful we look with Craw running the point in the 4th quarter and how invisible our defense was?. I'll take Teague's mistakes over this any day.

Teague's mistakes go beyond just him making them. The man guarding him literally would run to the opposite side of the court to go double the ball, as a player at any level that is a universal *beep* you that they don't fear you in the halfcourt, hell they don't even consider you as present in the halfcourt. They didn't respect his jumper and they knew that they could recover enough and due to his size and lack of finishing ability that he was a non-factor driving. Lawson showed why we actually wanted him on offense against Teague and Teague's only value fell to him pushing the tempo...which he wasn't doing. Can't shoot, can't drive, can't consistently defend can't play. Hinrich is the one that people should have wanted in the 4th.

Lost in all this was LD's decision that Josh had to remain on the court at all costs despite having a terrible shooting night and zero impact on defense due to him having 5 fouls on him already. What should he do to keep a negative impact player on the floor and away from bigs that will force a foul on him? Oh, I know, move him to SF position and then sit back and enjoy his assignment drop 13 consecutive points on him. He got a few FTs off the switch but he missed 3 of his 4 shots and gave 10 foot cushions on a guy known for his 3 point stroke and lack of handle. Poor IQ on both the coach and player in that instance especially after he called a time out in the middle of that 13 point barrage only to return the same lineup to the court with the same assignments.

[NineOhTheRino]

Teague's mistakes go beyond just him making them. The man guarding him literally would run to the opposite side of the court to go double the ball, as a player at any level that is a universal *beep* you that they don't fear you in the halfcourt, hell they don't even consider you as present in the halfcourt. They didn't respect his jumper and they knew that they could recover enough and due to his size and lack of finishing ability that he was a non-factor driving. Lawson showed why we actually wanted him on offense against Teague and Teague's only value fell to him pushing the tempo...which he wasn't doing. Can't shoot, can't drive, can't consistently defend can't play. Hinrich is the one that people should have wanted in the 4th.

Lost in all this was LD's decision that Josh had to remain on the court at all costs despite having a terrible shooting night and zero impact on defense due to him having 5 fouls on him already. What should he do to keep a negative impact player on the floor and away from bigs that will force a foul on him? Oh, I know, move him to SF position and then sit back and enjoy his assignment drop 13 consecutive points on him. He got a few FTs off the switch but he missed 3 of his 4 shots and gave 10 foot cushions on a guy known for his 3 point stroke and lack of handle. Poor IQ on both the coach and player in that instance especially after he called a time out in the middle of that 13 point barrage only to return the same lineup to the court with the same assignments.

I've disagreed with 99.9% of the stuff you've typed on hs.net. Put this in the 0.1%. Good stuff!

[niremetal]

Teague's mistakes go beyond just him making them. The man guarding him literally would run to the opposite side of the court to go double the ball, as a player at any level that is a universal *beep* you that they don't fear you in the halfcourt, hell they don't even consider you as present in the halfcourt. They didn't respect his jumper and they knew that they could recover enough and due to his size and lack of finishing ability that he was a non-factor driving. Lawson showed why we actually wanted him on offense against Teague and Teague's only value fell to him pushing the tempo...which he wasn't doing. Can't shoot, can't drive, can't consistently defend can't play. Hinrich is the one that people should have wanted in the 4th.

Lost in all this was LD's decision that Josh had to remain on the court at all costs despite having a terrible shooting night and zero impact on defense due to him having 5 fouls on him already. What should he do to keep a negative impact player on the floor and away from bigs that will force a foul on him? Oh, I know, move him to SF position and then sit back and enjoy his assignment drop 13 consecutive points on him. He got a few FTs off the switch but he missed 3 of his 4 shots and gave 10 foot cushions on a guy known for his 3 point stroke and lack of handle. Poor IQ on both the coach and player in that instance especially after he called a time out in the middle of that 13 point barrage only to return the same lineup to the court with the same assignments.

Unlike NineOh, I agree with 99% of what you post on HS. This is one of your best, though.

I was giving LD the benefit of the doubt until the last week or two. But he just looks out of his league right now. At the beginning of the year, it looked like he recognized this team's weaknesses and was actually implementing solutions designed to address them. The team's ball movement was MUCH better, and there was even a game or two where Josh rode the pine down the stretch after launching a string of bad shots in the third. But the ball movement stopped within a few weeks, and he hasn't benched Josh, Al, or Joe in the clutch since at least early December. Now we're left with basically last year's strengths and weaknesses, except substitute "soft big men" for "painfully overmatched point guard." It wasn't a coincidence that Zaza and Hinrich were the only guys who looked decent on both ends of the floor yesterday, because they are the only guys in our rotation who like the kind of physical play that the Nuggets gave us (also why Marvin didn't look bad - if nothing else, you have to admit he doesn't shy from contact). It just made absolutely, positively no sense that we had Jamal on the floor in the 4th instead of Hinrich.

Like Woody, LD is too scared to risk benching his "proven" guys in the fourth, even when those "proven" guys are getting burned (Jamal), are displaying terrible shot selection (Josh), and/or are becoming invisible (Joe/Al). And even if all they've "proven" is that on any given night, there's as good a chance that one of those Bad Things will happen as not. To make matters worse, rather than confront their teammates when they are taking bad shots, not doing their job on D, or whatever, Joe and (recently) Al seem to sulk and withdraw whenever another player is doing one his usual Bad Things. There isn't a leader on the floor AND there isn't one on the sideline.

I give LD a small pass because I don't think there's a coach in the known universe who could get Jamal to play good defense or Josh to stop shooting jumpers. But there are coaches in the universe who would start benching those guys when those things become a consistent problem. Who would tell Joe, Marvin, and Al to wake the eff up, stop hiding in the corner, and become more aggressive when their teammates are going rogue. And who wouldn't leave one of the league's best backcourt defenders on the bench during the fourth quarter while the opposing backcourt is shredding our defense (am I missing something, or is that not the EXACT reason we traded for Hinrich?).

I'd like to hope that this is partially hesitation borne of being a first year head coach. But we can't afford to wait for LD to grow up. And frankly, we can't afford to wait another 7 years for Josh to grow up either.

Edited March 17, 2011 by niremetal

[APE]

"something needs to be done.... I am sorry Mr. Stoudemire. You are my daddy, Tito isn't."

[Kimsey]

I would blame josh for the lost but he is not 100% probably more like 80. Chandler would be a phenomenal fit on this team, even at the 2...

[BrazilianHawk]

I would gladly trade this years Josh for last years Josh.

Aahahaha. Such a steal that would be. :biggrin:

[Crank]

t). It just made absolutely, positively no sense that we had Jamal on the floor in the 4th instead of Hinrich.

actually it made total sense considering how well jamals been playing and considering hes the better player .

We were actually coming back with a lineup of Zaza,Marvin,Josh,Damien,Jamal even with Josh doing crazy crap it wasnt until he inserted Joe and Al back did it fall apart.

At one point they were playing Felton,Affalo Jr Smith Al harrington and Birdman .

The problem if anything was that Al and Joe were so lackadaisical out there that it prevented LD from taking out Josh .

Our starters made 16 TOTAL fga and our scoring has been horrible .

The Hinrich trade only makes a difference if our big three plays up to there potential or at least close to it.... so far they havent

[QuantumHawkz]

I am I the only one that knows the Hawks have a frist time head coach? I am I the only knows that with a new coach comes new schemes on the offense and defense end? Iam I the only one that remembers that our 5 time all star had surgery on his SHOOTING ARM and came back way before he was suppose to? Have we all fogot about the trade at the most important spots on the hardwood? My point is if you went into this season with high hopes well, then your the one to blame. Lets wait until LD gets his true team before we ask for his job, cus right now this is still WOODY'S team.

[TheTruth]

Unlike NineOh, I agree with 99% of what you post on HS. This is one of your best, though.

I was giving LD the benefit of the doubt until the last week or two. But he just looks out of his league right now. At the beginning of the year, it looked like he recognized this team's weaknesses and was actually implementing solutions designed to address them. The team's ball movement was MUCH better, and there was even a game or two where Josh rode the pine down the stretch after launching a string of bad shots in the third. But the ball movement stopped within a few weeks, and he hasn't benched Josh, Al, or Joe in the clutch since at least early December. Now we're left with basically last year's strengths and weaknesses, except substitute "soft big men" for "painfully overmatched point guard." It wasn't a coincidence that Zaza and Hinrich were the only guys who looked decent on both ends of the floor yesterday, because they are the only guys in our rotation who like the kind of physical play that the Nuggets gave us (also why Marvin didn't look bad - if nothing else, you have to admit he doesn't shy from contact). It just made absolutely, positively no sense that we had Jamal on the floor in the 4th instead of Hinrich.

Like Woody, LD is too scared to risk benching his "proven" guys in the fourth, even when those "proven" guys are getting burned (Jamal), are displaying terrible shot selection (Josh), and/or are becoming invisible (Joe/Al). And even if all they've "proven" is that on any given night, there's as good a chance that one of those Bad Things will happen as not. To make matters worse, rather than confront their teammates when they are taking bad shots, not doing their job on D, or whatever, Joe and (recently) Al seem to sulk and withdraw whenever another player is doing one his usual Bad Things. There isn't a leader on the floor AND there isn't one on the sideline.

I give LD a small pass because I don't think there's a coach in the known universe who could get Jamal to play good defense or Josh to stop shooting jumpers. But there are coaches in the universe who would start benching those guys when those things become a consistent problem. Who would tell Joe, Marvin, and Al to wake the eff up, stop hiding in the corner, and become more aggressive when their teammates are going rogue. And who wouldn't leave one of the league's best backcourt defenders on the bench during the fourth quarter while the opposing backcourt is shredding our defense (am I missing something, or is that not the EXACT reason we traded for Hinrich?).

I'd like to hope that this is partially hesitation borne of being a first year head coach. But we can't afford to wait for LD to grow up. And frankly, we can't afford to wait another 7 years for Josh to grow up either.

Nire, I just HAD to +1 this. My thoughts exactly.

[BrazilianHawk]

Eh... AHawks negged me AGAIN!!! Why am I not surprised? I find it funny he would neg anyone who will badmouth Smoove and then complain about receiving his own negs...

Talking truth about Smoove isn't offensive to anyone but you, AHawks. Please stop with this childish behavior. Thanks. :good:

[AHawks89]

Eh... AHawks negged me AGAIN!!! Why am I not surprised? I find it funny he would neg anyone who will badmouth Smoove and then complain about receiving his own negs...

Talking truth about Smoove isn't offensive to anyone but you, AHawks. Please stop with this childish behavior. Thanks. :good:

Wait.. what?

Me getting offensive? No, not at all. I hardly give negatives to anyone. It's funny that you say that because Al Horford & Josh Smith are my favorite players. I'm assuming you don't like both of them, but like Al, right? Yes, I'm correct.

Me on the other hand, I talk about both players equally. It's funny to see you and many others blame every loss on Josh Smith continuously. The same people that do that are the same people who I see posting thread about "how bad" Josh is, or I'll see them back up Horford like he is the king of NBA. Me on the other hand, will step in and say something about that homerism. If I call Horford out, then I'm the bad guy of this forum, and if I call Smoove out, then I fit right in. Sorry, I don't care about that kind of stuff. I type how I see it.

You may see me backing up Smoove more than Horford, because it seems like this board loves to bash Smoove for no apparent reason, when in reality, when you watch the game, there are way more problems than Smoove issues. That's why I say something, and it's pathetic that this board can be like this time-to-time. Why can't everyone just be straight up about stuff and stop backing up their favorite player?

:newrussian:

Edited March 18, 2011 by AHawks89

[Supporter]

Wait.. what?

Me getting offensive? No, not at all. I hardly give negatives to anyone. It's funny that you say that because Al Horford & Josh Smith are my favorite players. I'm assuming you don't like both of them, but like Al, right? Yes, I'm correct.

Me on the other hand, I talk about both players equally. It's funny to see you and many others blame every loss on Josh Smith continuously. The same people that do that are the same people who I see posting thread about "how bad" Josh is, or I'll see them back up Horford like he is the king of NBA. Me on the other hand, will step in and say something about that homerism. If I call Horford out, then I'm the bad guy of this forum, and if I call Smoove out, then I fit right in. Sorry, I don't care about that kind of stuff. I type how I see it.

You may see me backing up Smoove more than Horford, because it seems like it loves to bash Smoove for no apparent reason, when if you watch the game, there are way more problems than Smoove issues. :newrussian:

I hate to butt in, but this is completely wrong. It's plain as day that you are in love with Josh Smith and not as thrilled with Joe or Horf. You constantly hypocrite about how you are the only one that is fair and unbiased on this forum but it's actually quite the opposite. You get very offensive when anyone has a negative opinion on Josh and it's so messed up because just like Josh you can't see the obvious.

[AHawks89]

Look at the message board, please. Look how many Josh Smith topics there are, okay? Now if you read what I said, I said that it may look like that because everyday you get on, there are about 5 topics about "how bad" Josh is. Of course I'm going to back it up when I see the same sh** everyday that makes no sense. People are taking their time to call Josh out, but no one calls anyone else out. This would be the same exact way if it was Al. You're crazy to say that I'm not biased. Only if you knew me. :yahoo:

But again, I figured you would step in. You can not hide your Al love. If you knew me, then you'd prob kill me because I'm a big Al fan and had a few items given to me personally by Al. Like I said, he is one of my fav players of all time, but you don't believe because I back up the non sense post by Josh Smith haters? Hmm...

But hey, good try. :pleasantry:

Edited March 18, 2011 by AHawks89

[Supporter]

Look at the message board, please. Look how many Josh Smith topics there are, okay? Now if you read what I said, I said that it may look like that because everyday you get on, there are about 5 topics about "how bad" Josh is. Of course I'm going to back it up when I see the same sh** everyday that makes no sense. People are taking their time to call Josh out, but no one calls anyone else out. This would be the same exact way if it was Al. You're crazy to say that I'm not biased. Only if you knew me. :yahoo:

But again, I figured you would step in. You can not hide your Al love. If you knew me, then you'd prob kill me because I'm a big Al fan and had a few items given to me personally by Al. Like I said, he is one of my fav players of all time, but you don't believe because I back up the non sense post by Josh Smith haters? Hmm...

But hey, good try. :pleasantry:

Do you not understand that this is a public message board and that people are going to express what they see in a player. Did you not see that in the last game Josh Smith missed almost all of his jumpers and kept on taking them. Do you not see that every single game that Josh Smith throws a wild pass into the stands instead of giving it up the point guard. There are plenty of reasons that Josh Smith gets his share of negative criticisms on this board and it's not because somebody "hates" him. It's because people like you and I watch Hawks basketball and when we see something that irks us, we have the freedom to post on boards like this. So please, if you cannot handle your boy "Smoove" getting ridiculed for some of the ridiculous stuff he does on the court, I don't know what else to say... :kickcan:

One more note, people don't give a flying **** if you got some things given by Horf, that doesn't mean anything on forums like this, the only thing that matters is what you post and how you post it.

Edited March 18, 2011 by Supporter

[JackB1]

Look at the message board, please. Look how many Josh Smith topics there are, okay? Now if you read what I said, I said that it may look like that because everyday you get on, there are about 5 topics about "how bad" Josh is. Of course I'm going to back it up when I see the same sh** everyday that makes no sense. People are taking their time to call Josh out, but no one calls anyone else out. This would be the same exact way if it was Al. You're crazy to say that I'm not biased. Only if you knew me. :yahoo:

But again, I figured you would step in. You can not hide your Al love. If you knew me, then you'd prob kill me because I'm a big Al fan and had a few items given to me personally by Al. Like I said, he is one of my fav players of all time, but you don't believe because I back up the non sense post by Josh Smith haters? Hmm...

There is a good reason why every day there are so many "how bad" Josh threads there are. Josh has been making the same mistakes now for years and years and refuses to listen to anyone about what's best for the team. That kind of play is going to really aggravate Hawks fans. What exactly "makes no sense" to you? There is noone else on this team that has as much talent as Josh, but over and over sabatoges this team's chance at succeeding. IMO, he deseves a HUGE part of the blame, especially because of the negative effect his actions are having on the team as a whole. Because Josh, who is one of the captains, doesn't listen to the team's coach. Everyone else sees this as acceptable behavior. No wonder we look lost out there most nights. Yes, I mostly blame it on Captain Josh.

[AHawks89]

Do you not understand that this is a public message board and that people are going to express what they see in a player. Did you not see that in the last game Josh Smith missed almost all of his jumpers and kept on taking them. Do you not see that every single game that Josh Smith throws a wild pass into the stands instead of giving it up the point guard. There are plenty of reasons that Josh Smith gets his share of negative criticisms on this board and it's not because somebody "hates" him. It's because people like you and I watch Hawks basketball and when we see something that irks us, we have the freedom to post on boards like this. So please, if you cannot handle your boy "Smoove" getting ridiculed for some of the ridiculous stuff he does on the court, I don't know what else to say... :kickcan:

One more note, people don't give a flying **** if you got some things given by Horf, that doesn't mean anything on forums like this, the only thing that matters is what you post and how you post it.

Exactly. You just said it. That's all you needed to say to prove my point. Once again, there you are throwing negatives out about an individual player, but no others. Thank you, Supporter. If you can't accept the fact that i'm right, then just ignore me from here on out. I'm not going to argue with you about who's is better between Al & Smith. That's the problem with you and many others. They always think there has to be beef between the two if you criticize either of them. That's the problem right there.^^

Now with that being said, man up and let's talk about Hawks basketball. :biggrin:

There is a good reason why every day there are so many "how bad" Josh threads there are. Josh has been making the same mistakes now for years and years and refuses to listen to anyone about what's best for the team. That kind of play is going to really aggravate Hawks fans. What exactly "makes no sense" to you? There is noone else on this team that has as much talent as Josh, but over and over sabatoges this team's chance at succeeding. IMO, he deseves a HUGE part of the blame, especially because of the negative effect his actions are having on the team as a whole. Because Josh, who is one of the captains, doesn't listen to the team's coach. Everyone else sees this as acceptable behavior. No wonder we look lost out there most nights. Yes, I mostly blame it on Captain Josh.

I never said I disagreed with Josh taking the blame? That's funny that you think that. I didn't even bring up Josh Smith one time, and yet I get jumped by a bunch of Al lovers for calling out Al, too? Josh, Joe, & Al are the ones to blame. All of them are playing like sh** as of late. Joe doesn't talk, Josh says the same thing, and Al never takes the blame on himself. What kind of captains are these? Kirk is the only legit captain on this team.

Edited March 18, 2011 by AHawks89

[NineOhTheRino]

Al has had just as many bad games as Josh but is seldom singled out as the reason for a loss. People tend to focus on the obvious with Josh. It's easy to point out missed jumpers but it take a bit more attention to point out Al's horrible defense or erratic low post game at times. I dislike Josh's mentality as much as anyone but I've never been close to saying he's the sole reason this team dropped a game.

[PureGreatness]

I hardly post on here but ive peeped exactly folks on this board does. People have this Al vs Josh thing because they both play PF and since they both play that same position people on this board has picked a side thus this is EXACTLY why Joes bad play is not discussed often and more then it currently is. Thats basically what it is. My issue is don't criticize 1 and act like the other wasnt horrible as well. True, smith issues are more obvious but Al issues are different but just as equal............Plus its low key childish.

Edited March 18, 2011 by hoodstar