Aight cut the bull we are not contenders, how can we get D12 in 2012?

[GameTime]

I'm sure Smoove would have to have something to do with calling him.

Edited March 28, 2011 by GameTime

[Wretch]

Hey man... I hear you. lol The sh!t is chess. It ain't checkas!

Man, I'm so tired of hearing the defeated, woe-is-us, nickel & dime attitude. Go big or go home. As much as people (self included) hate the mega-market, lucky draft pick, superstar "where I'm going to play" drama... It's the kind of thing that gets sh!t done in the NBA. Sit around and get mad all you want - won't change where we sit in the standings. Neither will piddling around with the core of the...

..."worst playoff team" ever.

[CBAreject]

This has been discussed a few times, and the consensus, correctly, has been that we'd have to trade a package including Horford. As long as Howard wants to come here, we have a lot of leverage, and we can get a deal done. However, as long as his coming here is contingent on Smoove being here, we wouldn't have many trade options not involving Horford. Most of us would love to see Howard/Horford as a dominant duo of bigmen, but sadly it can't happen. As much as I love Big Al's intensity and efficiency, It's totally worth it. If we want a shot at the ECF, we need this kind of trade. The only other possibility is if MW can blow up and score 20/10 for the rest of the year and be worth something in trade... :biggrin:

Edited March 29, 2011 by CBAreject

[Guest]

At around 0:12-0:13, why is Josh's tongue blue?

[wfhawkfan]

At around 0:12-0:13, why is Josh's tongue blue?

there is no telling what fat smoove just consumed

[thecampster]

I'm sure Smoove would have to have something to do with calling him.

The answer is very simple. Given our current contract commitments, you won't be able to get him without either

A. A sign and trade of Dwight for Al Horford and Filler

B. A sign and trade of Dwight and filler for Joe Johnson.

C. A multi-team trade involving Dwight, Joe or Al and lots of little pieces we don't have.

Addendum: Remember that one of the major allures of playing in Atlanta for Dwight is playing with Josh.

[CBAreject]

At around 0:12-0:13, why is Josh's tongue blue?

Fun Dip

[bird_dirt]

one other way of looking at this is in order to appease howard to get him to stay in orl, they may come knocking looking to trade for josh. they would be in a desperate mood to do that, so are there any major pieces on their roster we could try to screw them out of for smoove? for all the smoove haters, this could be a prime way to get over market value for him through a trade.

i'd rather have dwight here, but trading away josh is an option, too. jus' saying.

[thecampster]

one other way of looking at this is in order to appease howard to get him to stay in orl, they may come knocking looking to trade for josh. they would be in a desperate mood to do that, so are there any major pieces on their roster we could try to screw them out of for smoove? for all the smoove haters, this could be a prime way to get over market value for him through a trade.

i'd rather have dwight here, but trading away josh is an option, too. jus' saying.

Reason 2 for Dwight coming here is it's his home town.

[warcore]

Horford would definitely have to be included, but they would also want us to take on one of their mistakes (Hedu/Gilbert).

In order to take one of these back, we would either have to include Joe or package of Marvin/Hinrich expiring

I say our franchise is automatically more valuable if we have front court of Smoove and Dwight... better than the current Joe, Smoove, Horford.

If the deal is Dwight and Gilbert for Horf, Hinrich, Marvin, Zaza --> leaves us with

Arenas/Teague

Joe/Sy

SF/Wilkins

Smoove

Howard

Awesome. This assumes we don't resign Craw - I'd really like to acquire Mayo for this purpose. Him at 2 and Joe at 3 would make us legit.

[Sothron]

Howard would only want to come here to play with his best friend Smoove so Horford would be going back to Orlando in a trade.

[MaceCase]

I simply do not think that it is a good business plan to selectively gut a playoff team on the off chance that you will get a certain player for dubious reasons. It is bad for the current product and still bad for the intended final product.

If the team has to go through the process of trading everyone away during the next season does a team with Josh Smith, Earl Watson, Eric Dampier or whatever DLeague/minimum contract pickup look more attractive and hold more appeal than a team with Deron Williams, Blake Griffin or even Orlando itself?

If the team intends to go through the process of offering up a sign and trade is it worth it to Dwight to be at the mercy of the Magic and whatever demands they might have for a trade package when there are available options that can afford him outright without the hassle?

For a player languishing on a team with a closing contender window and nestled in a small market does Atlanta hold much of an advantage above those two factors? Sure there are always claims of Atlanta's large media market but has that ever benefited the Hawks in particular especially considering that the team has fielded winning teams in each of the past 3 decades yet gotten little national fanfare? Does the ownership and GM have the wherewithal and acumen to convincingly build a contender around it's two hometown players?

Does Dwight have more loyalty to his hometown or to his friend? If it is the former then his friend is likely to be a casualty that he can deal with but if it's the latter then are people aware that Josh is a free agent just a year later and could likely be able to join Dwight wherever he might be?

These are just a few of the many questions that arise when debating a potential Dwight to Atlanta scenario. His reasons and ability to come here are amongst the weakest in arguments yet I continue to see them constantly brought up. How many occasions has this board been faced with a star that "likes the city" or "has family" or "owns a home" in Atlanta and how many times has the team gotten said player for those reasons? Simply put there are much better championship or money making opportunities that exist for Dwight come 2012 than the idea of him "coming home to chill with his buddy". He'll have plenty of time to do both 15 years from now when he is sitting in his palace and polishing all his trophies.

Edited March 29, 2011 by CrawfulToCrawesome

[AHF]

If we are talking about trading for Dwight, I think that means specifically not gutting the team so we have assets to trade.

I don't think shedding salary so we can sign Dwight as a FA is a realistic option.

[MaceCase]

If we are talking about trading for Dwight, I think that means specifically not gutting the team so we have assets to trade.

I don't think shedding salary so we can sign Dwight as a FA is a realistic option.

In terms of the end product they essentially are one and the same IMO.

[Bawse]

A simple answer, no, with this current ownership.

A real answer, if we get new ownership, that is willing to take chance and win, then yes. I think D-Howard would like to come back home and play here, with one of his best friends... but you gotta understand, our ownership is about as dumb as Smoove's BBIQ. As much as i'd love it, I don't think it would happen. Our "core" seems to be untouchable, and I don't think Horford will be moved, because that's what Orlando will want at the very minimum.

[CBAreject]

In terms of the end product they essentially are one and the same IMO.

I strongly disagree. The problem with gutting a team to get below the cap is that you can't be sure you can sign anyone when you actually get the money. If you could be assured that you could sign Dwight in 2012, I would trade away almost anyone just to free up space to sign him. We can't have that assurance, so the only option is to trade for him. Any trade that brings back an MVP caliber player just coming into his prime (eg Rose, Howard, Bron) is worth it. They're simply too hard to acquire, and a decade of Dwight would make this team legitimate again.

[MaceCase]

I strongly disagree. The problem with gutting a team to get below the cap is that you can't be sure you can sign anyone when you actually get the money. If you could be assured that you could sign Dwight in 2012, I would trade away almost anyone just to free up space to sign him. We can't have that assurance, so the only option is to trade for him. Any trade that brings back an MVP caliber player just coming into his prime (eg Rose, Howard, Bron) is worth it. They're simply too hard to acquire, and a decade of Dwight would make this team legitimate again.

Look no further than what the Knicks gave up for Carmelo and how that impacted their 2012 plans and current teams ability to be successful. And to think they were actually in the position of power over that entire debacle yet caved due to pure stupidity. Either way you are gutting your team because you cannot just say to Orlando "we'll give you Joe and Teague, take it or be left with nothing!" because they will laugh in your face. In a sign and trade scenario they can ask for whatever they want in return and will open up the bidding to other teams in order to kick up the price. Neither Atlanta nor Dwight can say they draw the line at Smoove and expect a deal to get done. If that's the case Orlando will either be fine letting Dwight go for nothing rather than taking back a package that they might not find too desirable. These are the factors that people just choose to ignore. Kobe years ago wanted to force himself onto the Bulls but he didn't want Luol Deng being a part of any package for him. How did that work out? Even if Dwight was to go ahead and foolishly proclaim that he has zero intention but to play in a Hawk uniform past 2012 he cannot set the terms by which that happens. Either Orlando will get what they want for what he wants or they will both just have to end up settling.

Edited March 29, 2011 by CrawfulToCrawesome

[ATLSmith]

I don't understand why we can't trade Josh and still get Dwight... The NBA is still a business. You can't hang your hopes on the fact that two players may or may not want to buddy up.

The Miami situation is probably the out-lier here (I'm still dumbfounded how they got away with that).

I just rather have Horford and Dwight on floor together. They compliment each other well.

[AHF]

Look no further than what the Knicks gave up for Carmelo and how that impacted their 2012 plans and current teams ability to be successful. And to think they were actually in the position of power over that entire debacle yet caved due to pure stupidity.

I think people really overestimate how in control New York was. Carmelo was going to get his extension and would not have gone into FA to join the Knicks, IMO. Obviously, he cared much more about getting his extension than joining a more competitive team. If New York wouldn't trade for him, I think Carmelo would have been insulted since they would have been costing him millions and he would have gone elsewhere. I don't have anything more on that than my gut feeling and the fact that Carmelo deliberately tried to up the pressure on New York to trade for him with the extension by meeting with NJ, by saying he might stay with Denver, etc. IMO, Carmelo was more the driver in this process than the Knicks.

Either way you are gutting your team because you cannot just say to Orlando "we'll give you Joe and Teague, take it or be left with nothing!" because they will laugh in your face. In a sign and trade scenario they can ask for whatever they want in return and will open up the bidding to other teams in order to kick up the price. Neither Atlanta nor Dwight can say they draw the line at Smoove and expect a deal to get done. If that's the case Orlando will either be fine letting Dwight go for nothing rather than taking back a package that they might not find too desirable. These are the factors that people just choose to ignore. Kobe years ago wanted to force himself onto the Bulls but he didn't want Luol Deng being a part of any package for him. How did that work out? Even if Dwight was to go ahead and foolishly proclaim that he has zero intention but to play in a Hawk uniform past 2012 he cannot set the terms by which that happens. Either Orlando will get what they want for what he wants or they will both just have to end up settling.

It makes a huge difference if Dwight wants to maximize his contract, just like with Carmelo. If Howard is traded to us, he can get his max contract. If he goes into FA, he would need to accept losing some amount of money which makes the deal less likely to happen.

It also makes a huge difference if you swing and miss on Dwight.

Finally, we would actually have to give up assets to get rid of all our high priced contracts to get under the cap. It isn't like we could just drop JJ & Marvin. Once you make those moves, you then have no guarantee whether you can sign Dwight as a FA. With a trade, you don't give up those assets until you have Dwight in hand.

So I don't view the trade and FA possibilities as nearly identical.

[Swatguy]

I say drop Sund, bring back BK.

I do not believe the Marvin and Shelden picks were his..

I believe he can move Joe/Marvin and menuever a way to land Dwight.