Joe Johnson needs to swallow his pride. He put his ego above the team last night

[Antmillennium]

When the Hawks made that run to come back and take the lead from the Bulls, it was largely because of Jeff Teague. After that, Joe Johnson decided that he should be the hero, and he then went on to ignore Jeff Teague and play selfish basketball. On that turnover against Deng, Teague was wide open while Deng was up in Joe's shorts, and Joe ignored Teague as if he was some sort of scrub that was not worthy of touching the basketball. From that point on, it was downhill, because the Hawks then started playing selfish basketball instead of letting Teague create and make a decision. Doc Rivers once said that he had to tell his guys that they need to give Rondo the ball and get out of his way. Well, Larry Drew needs to tell his team to do likewise with Jeff Teague. There is no longer any reason for Joe and Crawford to be bringing the ball up the court, and there is certainly no longer any reason to ignore a wide open Jeff Teague with plenty of time left on the shot clock. Joe needs to realize that his slow, deliberate, and predictable ISO is no longer a better option than giving the ball to Teague. I was really disgusted with Joe last night. Teague really had it going, and Joe put his own selfish desires above the team. That selfish act was inexcusable to me.

[cordele]

the cold hard truth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[HawkItus]

I think Joe got trapped into that play. He was trying to make a pass when the ball got stolen. That was just good D.

[Crank]

Joe and Teague was guilty of that last night

[hawks21]

When the Hawks made that run to come back and take the lead from the Bulls, it was largely because of Jeff Teague. After that, Joe Johnson decided that he should be the hero, and he then went on to ignore Jeff Teague and play selfish basketball. On that turnover against Deng, Teague was wide open while Deng was up in Joe's shorts, and Joe ignored Teague as if he was some sort of scrub that was not worthy of touching the basketball. From that point on, it was downhill, because the Hawks then started playing selfish basketball instead of letting Teague create and make a decision. Doc Rivers once said that he had to tell his guys that they need to give Rondo the ball and get out of his way. Well, Larry Drew needs to tell his team to do likewise with Jeff Teague. There is no longer any reason for Joe and Crawford to be bringing the ball up the court, and there is certainly no longer any reason to ignore a wide open Jeff Teague with plenty of time left on the shot clock. Joe needs to realize that his slow, deliberate, and predictable ISO is no longer a better option than giving the ball to Teague. I was really disgusted with Joe last night. Teague really had it going, and Joe put his own selfish desires above the team. That selfish act was inexcusable to me.

ABSOLUTELY RIGHT... I believe there is a tug-of-war going on here...just like Westbrook and Durant..

[niremetal]

I just watched that play again and definitely did not get the impression that JJ was purposefully ignoring Teague. Deng was mugging him and he lost the ball. It's tough to argue that JJ played selfishly and tried to take over the game when he only went ISO on 3 possessions in the entire 4th quarter. That's hardly too much for an All-Star SG. I certainly did not see any indication that he was ignoring Teague. He passed to Teague a number of times in the fourth, both under pressure and not, both coming up the floor and in the half court.

In any case, people will see what they want to see when they don't like a player. C'est la vie.

Edited May 11, 2011 by niremetal

[NineOhTheRino]

Some here are not being totally objective. Think how Joe was towards Jamal early on? There were times when Jamal would be wide open and Joe would look him off for a harder shot. That's the Joe I know. He craves the praise and glory the #1 guys gets yet he wants no part of the criticism the main guys gets. Can't have it both ways Joe. I say either be that guy or admit that you can't and let a someone more willing and able do it.

I can also apply the same to Josh. There were a few times last night where Teague should have been in charge but josh tried to force things.

Edited May 11, 2011 by NineOhTheRino

[AHawks89]

Like Josh said, no one can trust each other. He's been saying this all year and it's showing. I think he is relying to Joe Johnson.

Edited May 11, 2011 by AHawks89

[JackB1]

I agree. I hate when Joe goes into "dribble-dribble-dribble-hold, hold, hold" mode.

We got to keep the ball moving. Joe is the one most times that brings our motion to a

grinding halt.

He also looked VERY TIRED last night! Drew needs to manage his minutes better.

[hawkman]

I'm not too sure about JJ being selfish, but demanding the ball from Teague just to dribble out the clock and throw up a tough shot has got to stop. That goes for JJ, Craw, and to some extent Smoove. I don't think it's selfishness or jealousy though. I think they all 'believe' they are doing what needs to be done to help the team, but they aren't helping at all. Just hand the ball to Teague and run down the court...VERY FAST. Craw get's the ball from Teague just to back the ball down the court against his man and then dribble all over the place? WHY? JJ gets the ball from Teague just to dribble into a double team and force up a tough shot? WHY? Those are valuable seconds off the shot clock and and even more valuable offensive possessions that could be so much easier to take advantage of. Why do we make the game so hard? Just give it to the PG and run down the court. If you do get the ball in the halfcourt, for the love of all that is holy GO QUICK. Stop hesitating.

[niremetal]

Some here are not being totally objective. Think how Joe was towards Jamal early on? There were times when Jamal would be wide open and Joe would look him off for a harder shot. That's the Joe I know. He craves the praise and glory the #1 guys gets yet he wants no part of the criticism the main guys gets. Can't have it both ways Joe. I say either be that guy or admit that you can't and let a someone more willing and able do it.

I can also apply the same to Josh. There were a few times last night where Teague should have been in charge but josh tried to force things.

You're right. You're not being totally objective here. Anyone who reads your last post could see that. Did you ever notice that the only people who ever claimed to notice this "JJ jealous of Crawford" thing a year and a half ago were you and other members of the reflexive JJ-bashing (and, in most cases, reflexive Josh-defending) contingent? Funny, that.

JJ did go ISO a few times in the fourth quarter last night. But "few" is the operative word in that sentence, just like "I" was the operative word in your statement "that's the Joe I know." If I wanted to go off on Smoove for his dumbassed plays last night, I could have. But I honestly felt no need to because I felt that on the whole, he did what he was supposed to do, and I don't get bent out of shape over just a couple bad plays. And I certainly feel no need to invent conspiracies and question Josh's character or motives when I criticize him. Predictably, the same cannot be said of you, ant, etc with respect to JJ.

Edited May 11, 2011 by niremetal

[DJlaysitup]

I think we also have to take one more thing into account here. It's not like Jeff Teague was the starting PG all year and piled up impressive performance after impressive performance - slowly gaining the confidence and respect of the veterans. Realistically, if Kirk hadn't got hurt I would imagine JT would be getting 10-12 minutes per game max still. So I can sorta understand our vets not feeling comfortable deferring to this "Johnny-come-lately" in crunch time of a bigtime playoff game.

As Chuck Barkley said on the radio this morning...there is obviously a problem with Atlanta's player evaluation for Teague to come from basically being third option at PG (behind Kirk and Craw) - and to be performing at this level on the big stage. Had he been in the mix much more earlier in the season, maybe the guys would have more confidence in him.

(or maybe they are just a bunch of selfish b@st@rds :stirthepot: )

[TheNorthCydeRises]

DVR is a wonderful thing, isn't it Niremetal?

The videotape tells the truth. Truth that the human eye THOUGHT it saw, but is proven to be a figment of their perceived imagination. Or better yet, an extreme case of "confirmation bias".

LOL . . let's ignore the fact that JJ got hacked twice in that quarter. Nope . . blame it on the captain.

As for the "hero ball", that's what he's paid to do. And to be honest, he doesn't play hero enough throughout the game, instead, settling until the 4th quarter to try to do his thing.

I don't know what playoff games some people have been watching, but the only ones we've won, are games in which "the hero" has come out aggressively and scored buckets. The Hawks are 6 - 0 in the playoffs when JJ scored 20+ points

So I think people need to start hoping that "the hero" shows up in these next 2 games . . if we even get to a 2nd game.

[jy23]

DVR is a wonderful thing, isn't it Niremetal?

The videotape tells the truth. Truth that the human eye THOUGHT it saw, but is proven to be a figment of their perceived imagination. Or better yet, an extreme case of "confirmation bias".

LOL . . let's ignore the fact that JJ got hacked twice in that quarter. Nope . . blame it on the captain.

As for the "hero ball", that's what he's paid to do. And to be honest, he doesn't play hero enough throughout the game, instead, settling until the 4th quarter to try to do his thing.

I don't know what playoff games some people have been watching, but the only ones we've won, are games in which "the hero" has come out aggressively and scored buckets. The Hawks are 6 - 0 in the playoffs when JJ scored 20+ points

So I think people need to start hoping that "the hero" shows up in these next 2 games . . if we even get to a 2nd game.

+100

thank god other people are handling these overly biased posters...I mean come on people, are we watching 2 different games here or something bc this is getting out of hand.

[Colin]

In case you guys were unaware, the three iso possessions that I remember Joe taking over were after the Hawks were having trouble scoring. He saw that shots weren't being made and nobody was able to get anything going, so he tried to... What is wrong with that? The 4th quarter fell apart because we just didn't move. JJ wasn't the only one guilty of that, countless times, when anybody had the ball, the team would stand around 14+ seconds before they did anything, and by that time, it was too late for anything to be run so whoever had the ball was going to look bad.

[Antmillennium]

DVR is a wonderful thing, isn't it Niremetal?

The videotape tells the truth. Truth that the human eye THOUGHT it saw, but is proven to be a figment of their perceived imagination. Or better yet, an extreme case of "confirmation bias".

LOL . . let's ignore the fact that JJ got hacked twice in that quarter. Nope . . blame it on the captain.

As for the "hero ball", that's what he's paid to do. And to be honest, he doesn't play hero enough throughout the game, instead, settling until the 4th quarter to try to do his thing.

I don't know what playoff games some people have been watching, but the only ones we've won, are games in which "the hero" has come out aggressively and scored buckets. The Hawks are 6 - 0 in the playoffs when JJ scored 20+ points

So I think people need to start hoping that "the hero" shows up in these next 2 games . . if we even get to a 2nd game.

I must admit. I went back and watched it again, and it does look like Joe was trying to pass Teague the ball when he got it stripped, so I'll have to take that comment back. Maybe I was just feeling at the time that they weren't giving Teague the ball enough or that there was too much isolation play going on or something. At any rate, Joe takes too long to make a move. He needs to make quick decisions. When he holds the ball or dribbles too much, that's when he gets into trouble.

[BusBoyIsBack]

When the Hawks made that run to come back and take the lead from the Bulls, it was largely because of Jeff Teague. After that, Joe Johnson decided that he should be the hero, and he then went on to ignore Jeff Teague and play selfish basketball. On that turnover against Deng, Teague was wide open while Deng was up in Joe's shorts, and Joe ignored Teague as if he was some sort of scrub that was not worthy of touching the basketball. From that point on, it was downhill, because the Hawks then started playing selfish basketball instead of letting Teague create and make a decision. Doc Rivers once said that he had to tell his guys that they need to give Rondo the ball and get out of his way. Well, Larry Drew needs to tell his team to do likewise with Jeff Teague. There is no longer any reason for Joe and Crawford to be bringing the ball up the court, and there is certainly no longer any reason to ignore a wide open Jeff Teague with plenty of time left on the shot clock. Joe needs to realize that his slow, deliberate, and predictable ISO is no longer a better option than giving the ball to Teague. I was really disgusted with Joe last night. Teague really had it going, and Joe put his own selfish desires above the team. That selfish act was inexcusable to me.

The Rondo comparison is spot on but the one reason why it's so much more difficult for our guys to defer to Teague is because THIS CAME OUT OF NOWHERE!

I mean those Celtic guys at least got to see Rondo over an ENTIRE SEASON as they finally had to admit to themselves that Rondo was legit, plus the fact that those guys were aging makes it even easier

Teague has come out of NOWHERE. This is the guy who was riding hte pine and only had 9 total minutes in the last round

That's why I say the next 2 years this team will be as good as it's ever been, if we stay healthy because that will be time to

A)Get more removed from the ridiculous isolation basketball habits that plagued us under Mike Woodson

B)More time for Teague to take over the LEague which will get him more respect from his teammates and will increase the chances they defer to him in those situations

[niremetal]

I just have to point out to the contingent of people who whine every time there's a thread harshly criticizing Josh that the OP in this thread that harshly (and by the author's own admission, at least somewhat inaccurately) bashed JJ, called him selfish, etc, currently has a +10. I don't think any OP in a thread criticizing Josh has gotten a +10. Something for the reflexive Smoove defenders to think before they play out their victim complex again.

/rant

Edited May 12, 2011 by niremetal

[00Blink]

I must admit. I went back and watched it again, and it does look like Joe was trying to pass Teague the ball when he got it stripped, so I'll have to take that comment back. Maybe I was just feeling at the time that they weren't giving Teague the ball enough or that there was too much isolation play going on or something. At any rate, Joe takes too long to make a move. He needs to make quick decisions. When he holds the ball or dribbles too much, that's when he gets into trouble.

^^^THIS^^^

I don't get too much into the player bashing, trade scenarios, or even comment on things too much because honestly, too many of you guys act like they are your lovers with the way you try to defend to h*ll's end. The word is CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM. Like a player or not, this is our team and we have to live with it. There are people in your family that you just don't like or agree with or even HATE to be around, like it or not, they're family. YOUR family. Nothing you can do about it but move on, live with it deal with it. It is already a rollercoaster to be a fan of this team, we should not have to deal with the added stress from the negativity and straight hate from our fellow 'Hawks fans'. EVERYONE on this team has their moments (good and bad) for even stretches of the season. Ride the rollercoaster or get off the ride. Please can we stop being negative nancies ALL the time and give some constructive criticism.

I get Joe dribbles too much, too long. For the people saying he is always doubled...well, it's because he give teams time to double him by taking TOO long to make a decision. As soon as he sees the double coming, he's big enough to see it and pass out of it before it arrives or make his move before they arrive. This can make our ball rotation and motion offense so much better and take so much pressure off of him. If your shots are not falling, contribute in other ways. Keep the offense flowing smoothly. Have your move planned before you get the ball...make a quick move or pass the ball within 5 seconds.

I get Josh needs to stop shooting from outside 15 feet. Get a mid-range and only use that game to change up your shot selection. STAY-IN-THE-PAINT or drive. He is hard to stop when he drives. QUIT complaining to refs after every call or non-call. Pat the ref on the back and say good call ref (good call or bad call) and the ref will respect him more and show him love more. Me myself, I hate a cry baby. Practice what you preach in your interviews besides, 'I'm going to keep playing my game [shot selction] and ignore the fans.' (besides this parenthesised quote, he actually sounds intelligent in interviews, like a coach almost). We don't HATE you, we just see how you can reach your full All-Star potential and be unstoppable. Apparently, everyone including media, fans, 'analysts/experts', former players, players, and coaches ALL realize this but you.

Horford needs to STEP UP. I understand the mid-range game has become A PART of his arsenal, but he has literally made it his ENTIRE arsenal, unless he gets an open dunk. He needs to MAN-THE-PAINT on Noah. Noah is not Dwight or Dikembe. Take him. Only resort to that when they plan on containing you in the post with a double. That hasn't happened at all so, BANG! For points and for the rebound. There is NO WAY Loozer, Gibson, and Asik should be in there grabbing all of those boards. But they do play fundamental. Boozer came from Fundaments-R-Us academy in the Jazz (a given), but he is not tall, big, athletic or overpowering. Gibson is the same as Loozer without the fundamentals but Thibs is giving him fundamentals and he is giving the effort. Asik is playing off of inspiration, the same as Jeff Teague is now (it's a thing of beauty). Control the paint Horford. You have the ability, especially if King Z can do it off of effort and hustle without an athletic bone in his body. I take hustle and effort any day of the week (see Noah).

Jamal, Jamal, Jamal...the tricky AND 1 dribble is getting old, not necessarily tired but not needed or condoned at this point in the season. It is nice and fascinating, but this is the second round of the playoffs and we have the opportunity to do something that has not been done since we were in St. Louis Hawks, and that is to make it to the ECF. Quit being fancy and go to the hole. I know you can take your man off the dribble at any time, but stop trying to be so fancy doing it, it takes too much time off the clock and leads to showboating, bad shots, bad passes, and turnovers. Play the game like it is the NBA Finals and it is Game 7 for your FIRST EVER CHAMPIONSHIP. Quit shooting the ball out of rhythm and the flow of the offense. Do not shoot the ball if it has not been touched by any other player or if you are not just wide open, or if you are not in transition or have a clear path to the lane. SHARE THE BALL.

Zaza Pa-CHUUULIA... :kingchris: keep hustling homie. Keep being physical because here is where Chicago is winning like Charlie Sheen (I love that quote). Horford is running away from it, Josh seems to be getting a clue, and Collins just does not have the skillset or mobility (to think I can say the EXACT same thing about Zaza, but he is younger and lighter and gives effort and hustle, sounds like a downgraded version of Noah).

Teague... :boxing: do your thing boy. Keep giving the the sucker punch they continually do not see coming, especially to all the analysts, media, fans, and coaches who think you are going to wane. Bring the bite with the bark. Show them you are going to be a big dawg in this league. I'm convinced.

Marvin... :notme: it's not your fault. :resent: It is the fault of 'experts' and analysts, pundits and scouts, coaches and teammates. Just keep your head up my man and let the game come to you. Explode when you can or are REALLY needed to. :ok:

LD...practice what you preach in the news conferences and media. Mean every word and don't be afraid to stick it to your stars who are not performing; Joe, Jamal, Al, Josh.

Keep the intensity up on both ends. Play at a comfortable pace. Share the ball, move the ball. Hustle and give effort. TRUST in each other in everyone attributes and abilities and be unselfish enough to know when to pass the ball and when to find the shooter's touch. Play in the paint and rebound.

And for God sake, we know we can't touch or breathe on DRose. So if we ARE going to foul him, make the foul count. Make him feel it. I'm not saying hurt him, just punish him. Make the refs call the foul and it not be questionable. They are fouling us with no calls, pushing and tripping and hacking with no calls, return the favor 10-fold.

With that being said, I APPRECIATE EACH AND EVERYONE of our rotation players for what they bring to the table. (in my Ray Lewis voice) We've come too far and with too much blood, sweat, and negativity to let this opportunity slip away. We've battled the media, the analysts/experts, opponents and their derogatory/condescending comments, the odds, and most importantly...EACH OTHER. None of that matters right now! What matters, is the here, the now. We are still here baby! We are still standing! THIS IS OUR MOMENT. THIS IS OUR TIME!! F the Falcons (football season's not in now)...RISE UP and FLY HIGH!

LET'S GO HAWKS!!

This post has been promoted to an article

[hawkman]

^^^Now this is a post! :bowdown:

Edited May 12, 2011 by hawkman