this Hawks team as you know it is gone

[TRUEINTELLECTPLAYA]

Your not getting value by trading Josh. He has a short contract and he is young and he still has the biggest upside of any Hawk, the only one even close is Teague. To get value for Josh you basically have to get a All-Star back and I just don't see it. Bad contracts get moved all the time. Joe Johnson needs to be shopped for a catch and shoot guy.

[thescout5]

Obviously the key to making a trade is getting value back or Sund isn't a good GM. I'm borderline on keeping Josh. If it means getting a good big back why not?

[PureGreatness]

You either Trade Joe johnson and keep both smith and Horford OR trade smith or Horford. If we could get rid or joe, Don't resign Crawford(he is a BALL HOG) and get rid of Marvin SOMEHOW i woill be cool. Keep Zaza, Teague, Smith, Horford and you be set. If you can trade Smith or Horford for value DO IT but keep them 2 as well as teague and Zaza.

[Randy]

The best possible outcome:

1. Get someone to take over the payments on Joe, even if we get nothing in return.

2. Get someone to take over the payments on Marvin, even if we get nothing in return.

3. Get someone to convince Josh that Charles is right - if you don't see paint under your foot don't shoot the ball.

Sadly, none of the above will ever happen.

So the possible

1. Trade Al + Marvin for a decent center.

2. Trade Kirk + Marvin for a decent SF

3. Don't resign Jamal.

The downside I see with making any trade is what is the chance they will actually get talent in return. If this coach/GM/owners could recognize talent they wouldn't have had Teague sitting the bench for 2 years and let "he who's name shall not be mentioned" get away unecessarily. Turth is, they can't even recognize talent on their own team, let alone on someone elses team.

[Bawse]

Blow it up, trade Joe too, I don't care. Trade Horford's soft *ss. Smoove is the only piece I want to keep, if he can be coached into never leaving the paint area. OVERHAUL.

[IHeartAtlanta]

IMO... We just need to add pieces...we have our MLE and we need to use Marvin and Kirk as trade pieces...I think this team is a legit center away now that Teague has arrived to be true contenders...Go Hawks

[QuantumHawkz]

Tisk, Tisk.Posting after a bad loss in the playoffs will make you post dumb *ss comments. People keep saying" trade ower 2 time NBA ALL STAR/ NBA ALL TEAM player". For who? People keep saying" trade ower 5 time all star/3rd best SG in the NBA".For who? Tell me, cause i dont see anybody that we can get back better then these two who can make ower team better.Trade Marvin? yes. Trade krik? no. Resign Crawford? no. and pick up JR Smith at a cheaper price then Craw. But overall lets cool off before we "BLOW UP" a playoff team, look at dallas a 50 win team for 10 years and only made it to the finals once and lost, and look at them now. This thing takes time people TIME.

[thescout5]

This teams core as been together for about 5 yrs if not longer. Good GMs find the players to trade value for value. Some Gms like West can rip off other GMs. This isn't about one loss but a continuing hope from ASG to keep thinking the right players are playing for the Hawks yet when its all on the line the Hawks simply get embarrassed? Quality organizations fix the problem others just go on hoping the same pieces will some how fit together and they never do. Josh as more market power in any deal so if it takes getting a big back whether its Bogut or some other player then do it. Oden can be signed what about him. Like I said good GMS find the players and now its up to Sund and ASG to realize this team needs some major tweeks if it ever hopes to go all the way.

[Deeman]

Sadly I think yesterday is the last time we will see Smoove in a Hawks jersey.

[Joker]

This teams core as been together for about 5 yrs if not longer. Good GMs find the players to trade value for value. Some Gms like West can rip off other GMs. This isn't about one loss but a continuing hope from ASG to keep thinking the right players are playing for the Hawks yet when its all on the line the Hawks simply get embarrassed? Quality organizations fix the problem others just go on hoping the same pieces will some how fit together and they never do. Josh as more market power in any deal so if it takes getting a big back whether its Bogut or some other player then do it. Oden can be signed what about him. Like I said good GMS find the players and now its up to Sund and ASG to realize this team needs some major tweeks if it ever hopes to go all the way.

All we have is the MLE. The Blazers have said they will give him the offer sheet for his value. That's more than the MLE. No solid centers are available for the MLE except Dalembert. NYK and MIA are hot on his trail. We are pretty much trading, staying put, or passing on Jamal and getting worst.

Edited May 13, 2011 by nbasuperstar40

[thescout5]

There will be someone available and its Sund's job to find those players.If not a center then a power forward and trade Smoove. If you have to trade some players for draft picks then do it. The Hawks won't get immediate results but the way they are going now the limit is what we saw tonight. It's to bad the Hawks got suckered both times in signing JJ and Marvin. I'd almost rather be in the lottery than to have to have the limit being the 2nd round or 1st round every year and being knocked out.

Doug Gottleib over ESPN made a statement about the Hawks saying the same ole Hawks they'll make the playoffs and get knocked out. I think not only do outsiders see the problem but Hawk fans do also. Something has to change or will continue to get beat down in the playoffs every year. Teams that have consistently won have added pieces over the off season. The Hawks just sit on their butts hoping some how the same ole players will find how to play as a team and win. Times up and its time to change things up.

Edited May 13, 2011 by thescout5

[Eddielives]

Blow it up, trade Joe too, I don't care. Trade Horford's soft *ss. Smoove is the only piece I want to keep, if he can be coached into never leaving the paint area. OVERHAUL.

What NBA team is going to take on Joe Johnson's contract? Please tell me because I would love to know. Joe has regressed in the first year of his contract which is the first thing you hear being brought up when his name is mentioned. A team is going to pay 20 million for an 18 point per game guy?

[BrazilianHawk]

What NBA team is going to take on Joe Johnson's contract? Please tell me because I would love to know. Joe has regressed in the first year of his contract which is the first thing you hear being brought up when his name is mentioned. A team is going to pay 20 million for an 18 point per game guy?

:iamwithstupid:

First off, JJ is not just a 18 point per guy, HE'S NOT JAMAL!

The main reason we got this far is JJ was on the court. Check his numbers again throughout the playoffs. Consider how was he being defended and hacked throughout the playoffs.

JJ is NO friggin Jamal! We was trying to do the right things out there. Maybe he's a bit slow to pass the ball out of double/triple teams, but that's about it you can say about him.

His contract is an albatross, yes, but just try and imagine this team without JJ. I can't believe someone thinks we could be better off w/o him.

JJ IS NO FRIGGIN JAMAL!

[frosgrim]

I think what we saw last night was what the Hawks are, a soft, but athletic team that really doesn't know how to play together.

The team needs a major tweak to get past this 2nd round roadblock.

Us older Hawks fans have seen this play out before

late 1980s with Nique and Co

Mid 1990s with Mookie-Smith-Deke

Those two teams took different paths to fix their problems.

The 1980s Hawks brought in Reggie Theus and Moses Malone while getting rid of the heart of the team in Tree Rollins. The move resulted in a worse regular season and post season.

The mid 1990s Hawks kept expecting other teams to decline and they would catch lightning in a bottle. Those teams were a dynamic scorer away from being NBA championship caliber. In hind sight, Smith probably should have been moved for a more dynamic guy, but that is hindsight.

So, what does this tell us about the current Hawks situation? Any changes made have to be considered carefully. Every player on this roster has worts. Smith is determined to be an all-around scorer but lacks those skills. Horford went soft for some unknown reason in these playoffs (maybe he wants to be traded?), Joe makes too much for his production, Marvin- sigh, etc.

In sum, the 2011 Hawks can be characterized as a talented team that is soft and has low BBIQ.

But, the real questions is, even with trading guys, are we just shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic?

I suspect that might be the case.

The solution is to hit the reset button and trade a good number of these players. This is actually the Chicago model. Their management realized they made some bad choices and went back to the lottery several times to find a superstar. Maybe this is the right model to go with?

Edited May 13, 2011 by frosgrim

[macdaddy]

First off I need to get in that Josh showed up. I can appreciate people's issues with Josh but today isn't the day i'd choose to bash him. Josh, Teague, and Zaza were the only ones rising above last night. There was effort by the other guys but Joe, Jamal, Horford just couldn't make anything happen.

If Joe is useless against great defense then what's the point really. I like Joe and understand that he is really the only complete player on the team but its pretty clear that he's not leading us to a championship.

There is a lot of talk about the Hawks having no inside game but look at who's in the ECF. These teams rely on Boozer and Bosh as their post guys. As we saw last night Boozer killed us by sinking a bunch of 12 footers. The difference is really just guys who rebound. TWO OFFENSIVE REBOUNDS outside of Zaza's 5??? I praised Josh's effort but i realize he had zero offensive rebounds. That sucks. There again he was at the 3 a lot. Where were the offensive boards for our PF and C?

Anyway, we had a good playoffs overall. We need some changes. I would trade Joe if we could (and i think we can) because he's going to lock us into 2nd round exits for years. The only hope is that we could trade some of the others for a great post player and find a good rebounder. We are going to have to trade away talent to get some back though.

[sasuke]

The only way to get rid of JJ's contract is by taking back another bad contract or multiple bad contracts..... Not going to help that much. Marvin's contract can be dumped if the price we ask for is 0. Worst case scenario we offer cash/pick or both to dump him, but is possible. Smoove can give you 2 to 3 descent role players. No quality center will be available for MLE. I'll split it up on guys like Battier & McGrady. Then use Childress TPE & a 2nd round pick for an experienced role player. That's the most realistic plan I can come up with. Ahh, don't resign jamal.

[NJHAWK]

So how do you reload?

This team isn't a threat to win an NbA title. These guys are a perimeter oriented club that won't stand up against elite teams. How do u fix it?

I bet the Lakers would take Joes deal to play with Kobe. The Celtics would as well because he actually gets them younger. I just dont know what we could get back. I believe a team looking for a strong second option to bring them closer to a title would take Joe.

[macdaddy]

I bet the Lakers would take Joes deal to play with Kobe. The Celtics would as well because he actually gets them younger. I just dont know what we could get back. I believe a team looking for a strong second option to bring them closer to a title would take Joe.

Right. The Lakers, Mavs, Celts or even the Bulls or Spurs might be interested. We aren't getting back equal talent but we could free up some cash and maybe get a team that works better offensively together. For whatever reason I think Joe is the square peg on this team. Which is a shame. Sometimes he fits in great and we are unbeatable. Other times he just can't work fast enough for some reason. How many times last night did you yell 'pass the ball' at Joe? I had at least 4. I think he didn't totally buy into LD's system. If he did then I think we'd be pretty damn good.

Another possibilty is to find a better 3. IF we had a scorer at the 3 who could take some of the pressure off Joe it would help. I think 3 is a bigger need than Center or PG at this point.

[Explicit]

Throughout this thread there seems to be alot of trade, "Horford for a guy like this" or, "Smith for a guy like that", but it seems like no one really has an idea of what is available. As for blowing up the team let me take you back to a time when we were making it to the second round back in the nineties. We were a consistent good team but we couldn't get over the second round hump. So we played a Knicks team that was the feel good story of the year. A returning Spreewell after the PJ Carlesimo incident and they were the 8th seed. Management decided it was time to, "blow it up" after we lost to the Knicks in the second round and out went class guys like Jim Jackson and in came trash like Isaiah Rider and soon to follow was disappointment after disappointment. Years of low win totals and no hope of ever getting to the playoffs.

So throughout this thread people seem to be doubting Sund's ability to judge talent etc etc and with an ownership group in chaos perhaps we may want to just be happy with where we are at since some of us have been down this road before.

Having said that I can still see potential in this team. Teague impressed me a great deal with his ability to aggressively get to the hole and I feel that we could do worse then a starting five of: Teague, Hinrich, Johnson, Smith and Horford next year if we had to go that way. If and there are a lot of if's but if we could get Teague and Hinrich and Smith to aggressively go to the hole Johnson and Horford could feed off of that.

I think that Larry Drew deserves another year with this team and I do agree that some things need to be tweaked but for everyone wanting a center you need to realize that there isn't much out there.

[frosgrim]

Throughout this thread there seems to be alot of trade, "Horford for a guy like this" or, "Smith for a guy like that", but it seems like no one really has an idea of what is available. As for blowing up the team let me take you back to a time when we were making it to the second round back in the nineties. We were a consistent good team but we couldn't get over the second round hump. So we played a Knicks team that was the feel good story of the year. A returning Spreewell after the PJ Carlesimo incident and they were the 8th seed. Management decided it was time to, "blow it up" after we lost to the Knicks in the second round and out went class guys like Jim Jackson and in came trash like Isaiah Rider and soon to follow was disappointment after disappointment. Years of low win totals and no hope of ever getting to the playoffs.

So throughout this thread people seem to be doubting Sund's ability to judge talent etc etc and with an ownership group in chaos perhaps we may want to just be happy with where we are at since some of us have been down this road before.

Having said that I can still see potential in this team. Teague impressed me a great deal with his ability to aggressively get to the hole and I feel that we could do worse then a starting five of: Teague, Hinrich, Johnson, Smith and Horford next year if we had to go that way. If and there are a lot of if's but if we could get Teague and Hinrich and Smith to aggressively go to the hole Johnson and Horford could feed off of that.

I think that Larry Drew deserves another year with this team and I do agree that some things need to be tweaked but for everyone wanting a center you need to realize that there isn't much out there.

The blow it up option is a thought to get us a top 5 talent. However, I fully admit getting back into the top of the lottery isn't a guarantee to get a top 5 NBA talent. On the other hand, do we have the ability to get a top 5 guy with the assets we have now? If not, then what are we doing?

Personally, I'm sick and tired of never getting past the 2nd round, and I was born in 1968 here in Atlanta, so I've seen all the teams. :banghead: