Can the Hawks win a title with JJ as the #1 guy?

[Crank]

The 34 year old Sam Cassell shot 49% FG - 40% 3FG and averaged 20 points and 7 assists the year Minnesota went to the WCF. He had one of his best years of his career that year. Cassell, even more than KG, was the leader of that squad that kept them steady and had the ability to make big shot after big shot. Since people love using PER and win score/48, Cassell's PER that year was a whopping 22.8 ( ridiculous for a PG, seeing that PER usually favors the high scoring, high rebounding PF types ) and had a win score per 48 minute number of .205. Both numbers trump the best seasons of Horford, Smith, AND Joe Johnson. Cassell scored 20 points or more in 41 of the 81 games he played in that year. That made him a legit #2 option that had the ability to even be a #1 option at times. Neither Horford nor Smith have ever been able to score like that. He played so well, that he earned 2nd team All-NBA.

Spreewell was a former #1 then a #2 option type scorer who could get his own shot. On that Minnesota team, he was the ideal #3 option with his ability to score the basketball from the SF position. He was essentially their Jamal Crawford, a guy who was streaky, but could explode and have a big game every now and then. 34 games of 20 points or more and 6 games of 30 points or more for Spree that year.

Both Hassell and Ervin Johnson were defensive guys who could limit what their man did at their respective position. Johnson was essentially a better version of Jason Collins, while Hassell always drew the assignment against the best perimeter scoring wing. Those two moves kept KG from playing center all the time, and kept Spree from having to guard the top offensive scorer at times, enabling both guys to have the energy to still play defense, but really concentrate on offense.

Their starting 5 trumps any starting 5 that JJ has had in Atlanta. They were the perfect balance of elite offensive scoring and defensive prowess. You couldn't double KG in the post, because Cassell would kill you with the 3 ball and Spree was still a decent slasher to the hole.

And that's not even including the high percentage 3 point shooters they could bring off the bench in the form of Fred Hoiberg, Wally Szczerbiak, and Troy Hudson, who all shot above 40% from 3 that year.

Olowokandi was sorry for a former #1 pick, but serviceable as a stop gap center. Gary Trent ( the Shaq of the MAC ) was at least seviceable as a backup PF that played limited minutes ( posted a PER of 12.9 that season, which was better than Josh Powell, Shelden Williams, Joe Smith, or any other reserve PF we've had here ). Even Mark Madsen's goofy self brought something to the table as an energy guy that could play PF and a little C. LOL @ him and that "forearm in the back" defense that he used to play all the time.

2003 - 04 Timberwolves

- KG ( the superstar and MVP of the league )

- Cassell ( the all-star PG who had a career year )

- Spreewell ( the slasher/shooter who was a legit #3, sometimes #2 option )

- Hassell and Johnson ( the defensive specialists in the starting lineup )

- Hoiberg, Wally, and Hudson ( the 3 point specialists off the bench )

- Olowokandi and Madsen ( the "dirty work" bigs that helped keep KG fresh)

- Trent ( the reserve PF was capable of having a "nice" game 1/3rd of the time )

That team was beautifully constructed with the addition of Cassell, Spreewell, Hassell, Johnson, Hoiberg and Madsen to that team in that year.

Chemistry, ability and balance > ability, low IQ, and no balance

You and Diesel are really stretching it here

KG was the MVP that season THE LEAGUE MVP you think he was the league MVP because of the additions of Cassell and Spree ? 24 ppg 15 rpg 5 apg 1+ spg 2+ bpg and first team all defense

Thats the underlying problem here you guys are talking as if with the right players around him JJ will turn in a MVP like performance and raise his game like hes a freaking Cinderfella or something

KG was bringing his "A" game long before Cassell or Spree showed up he didnt need them around to bring out his best ball. .

Joe doesnt bring his "A" game as much as he should nevermind that his "A' game aint on KG's level . Now no one else on the team does either but when you give 3 players 40+ mil and over half of your teams cap space and none of them can consistently bring there "A" games well then you have to change something .

[Guest]

Please quit comparing KG and Joe because as we have seen you need talent around you to win. As good as KG was he didn't win until he got to Boston and teamed up with Ray and Paul who were always #1 options on their teams from the day they were drafted. Joe was the 4th option at best in Phoenix and was also coming off the bench. He became the #1 guy here.

[sasuke]

Are some of you guys comparing JJ to KG?????????

Wow, just when I thought I've seen it all...................

[Diesel]

You and Diesel are really stretching it here

Thats the underlying problem here you guys are talking as if with the right players around him JJ will turn in a MVP like performance and raise his game like hes a freaking Cinderfella or something

When Joe played with Amare and Nash, he was a 46% shooter from 3...

To look at our flawed team... with guys with little BBIQ and no post presence and no PG and say that we have put JJ in his best light is ridiculous.

Do you see how JJ annihilated Chicago in game 1 in Chicago when they didn't double him? After that, they doubled him the rest of the series and his average was:

19.7 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 3.2 apg.

Just to put it in perspective...

Dwayne Wade who has Lebron and Bosh.. played against tht same Chicago defense in the ECF and his average:

18.8, 6.7, 2,2.

Point is, Joe did it without much help. His help was Teague.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Nobody is comparing KG to JJ as players. We're comparing their situations.

The fact is that KG, as great as he was, never made it out of the 1st round, until he got help in the form of Cassell ( a guy who had one two titles with Houston, and was a win away from helping lead MILWAUKEE to the NBA Finals vs the Lakers in 2001 ) and Spreewell ( a former #1 option in G St and #2 option with the Knicks ). LOL . . and Big Dog Glenn Robinson ( of all people ) was the 1a option on that Milwaukee team, with Ray Allen being 1b and Cassell being 1c. It's amazing that team almost made the NBA Finals.

Can't speak for Diesel, but I think we're both saying that if JJ had at the very least an equal offensive star playing alongside him, along with a dependable 3rd guy, the Hawks may reach that next level. Some people doubt that, so that's cool. But it still doesn't take away the fact that the best player JJ has played with, is Josh Smith.

[Crank]

When Joe played with Amare and Nash, he was a 46% shooter from 3...

To look at our flawed team... with guys with little BBIQ and no post presence and no PG and say that we have put JJ in his best light is ridiculous.

Do you see how JJ annihilated Chicago in game 1 in Chicago when they didn't double him? After that, they doubled him the rest of the series and his average was:

19.7 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 3.2 apg.

Just to put it in perspective...

Dwayne Wade who has Lebron and Bosh.. played against tht same Chicago defense in the ECF and his average:

18.8, 6.7, 2,2.

Point is, Joe did it without much help. His help was Teague.

you are doing it again WADE DOES NOT NEED BOSH OR LEBRON TO BRING HIS "A" GAME

What u are talking about is not perspective but a a delusion .

If we had this type of player around Joe he would suddenly turn into some sort of first team all NBA caliber future HOF ?

You guys sound like the ones who refer to the heat as the big three when in reality its the big two and a nice piece and Bosh is the nice piece but hes no where near being the caliber of player who you can simply needs some help.

Unless we can get Lebron,Wade,Dwight,Rose,Melo,Amare.

Joe is not the guy who gets help he is the type of player who IS THE HELP for those caliber of players .

Joe is not a bad player and I like his game but at this time we are simply treading water buying into that .

Now as i said before I wouldnt dump him for nothing because I like his game but you have to recognize your teams limitations and plan accordingly .

[Diesel]

you are doing it again WADE DOES NOT NEED BOSH OR LEBRON TO BRING HIS "A" GAME

What u are talking about is not perspective but a a delusion .

If we had this type of player around Joe he would suddenly turn into some sort of first team all NBA caliber future HOF ?

You act as if Scottie Pippen didn't play in his best light playing next to Jordan?

Like The big three didn't raise their games to play with one another?

I'm not saying that we need an megastar for Joe to be in his best light... but what if we had a player who the defense had to respect?

I'm not talking about respect like they respect Josh Smith... i.e. leave him alone on the three point line and he will shoot it.

I'm talking about the kind of respect that he would get playing next to Amare.

I tell you what. Let Joe go to NY and play with Amare and Melo...

You can have all of NY's draft picks for the next 6 yrs... I guarantee you:

1. We won't make the playoffs in the next 6 yrs.

2. Joe will be a better player than he has been.

3. We won't beat the Knicks.

4. That Knick team will challenge for the championship.

My god, we have Joe playing next to guys who disappear and can't handle a double team and we wonder why Joe isn't playing on the level of Dwayne Wade.

By the way, bringing your "A" GAME is not just how much you score.

If I recall, Wade Brought his "A" Game to the playoffs against Us and was Eliminated.

What was that?

Were we better than his "A" Game?

What good is your "A" Game if you can't get out of the first round of the playoffs??

Now, Since Lebron has been there, they are talking like Wade is the best player in the league.

Dayuum.. I wonder what happened?

Edited June 7, 2011 by Diesel

[dlpin]

The 34 year old Sam Cassell shot 49% FG - 40% 3FG and averaged 20 points and 7 assists the year Minnesota went to the WCF. He had one of his best years of his career that year. Cassell, even more than KG, was the leader of that squad that kept them steady and had the ability to make big shot after big shot. Since people love using PER and win score/48, Cassell's PER that year was a whopping 22.8 ( ridiculous for a PG, seeing that PER usually favors the high scoring, high rebounding PF types ) and had a win score per 48 minute number of .205. Both numbers trump the best seasons of Horford, Smith, AND Joe Johnson. Cassell scored 20 points or more in 41 of the 81 games he played in that year. That made him a legit #2 option that had the ability to even be a #1 option at times. Neither Horford nor Smith have ever been able to score like that. He played so well, that he earned 2nd team All-NBA.

Spreewell was a former #1 then a #2 option type scorer who could get his own shot. On that Minnesota team, he was the ideal #3 option with his ability to score the basketball from the SF position. He was essentially their Jamal Crawford, a guy who was streaky, but could explode and have a big game every now and then. 34 games of 20 points or more and 6 games of 30 points or more for Spree that year.

Both Hassell and Ervin Johnson were defensive guys who could limit what their man did at their respective position. Johnson was essentially a better version of Jason Collins, while Hassell always drew the assignment against the best perimeter scoring wing. Those two moves kept KG from playing center all the time, and kept Spree from having to guard the top offensive scorer at times, enabling both guys to have the energy to still play defense, but really concentrate on offense.

Their starting 5 trumps any starting 5 that JJ has had in Atlanta. They were the perfect balance of elite offensive scoring and defensive prowess. You couldn't double KG in the post, because Cassell would kill you with the 3 ball and Spree was still a decent slasher to the hole.

And that's not even including the high percentage 3 point shooters they could bring off the bench in the form of Fred Hoiberg, Wally Szczerbiak, and Troy Hudson, who all shot above 40% from 3 that year.

Olowokandi was sorry for a former #1 pick, but serviceable as a stop gap center. Gary Trent ( the Shaq of the MAC ) was at least seviceable as a backup PF that played limited minutes ( posted a PER of 12.9 that season, which was better than Josh Powell, Shelden Williams, Joe Smith, or any other reserve PF we've had here ). Even Mark Madsen's goofy self brought something to the table as an energy guy that could play PF and a little C. LOL @ him and that "forearm in the back" defense that he used to play all the time.

2003 - 04 Timberwolves

- KG ( the superstar and MVP of the league )

- Cassell ( the all-star PG who had a career year )

- Spreewell ( the slasher/shooter who was a legit #3, sometimes #2 option )

- Hassell and Johnson ( the defensive specialists in the starting lineup )

- Hoiberg, Wally, and Hudson ( the 3 point specialists off the bench )

- Olowokandi and Madsen ( the "dirty work" bigs that helped keep KG fresh)

- Trent ( the reserve PF was capable of having a "nice" game 1/3rd of the time )

That team was beautifully constructed with the addition of Cassell, Spreewell, Hassell, Johnson, Hoiberg and Madsen to that team in that year.

Chemistry, ability and balance > ability, low IQ, and no balance

I see that you used numbers for the Cassel part and not for the Sprewell part. Is that because 33 and 34 year old Sprewell in MN poster PERs of 14.7 and 12.1? (league average being 15).

That team, other than Cassel at 22.8, had no one esle even at PER 16. Their 3 point specialists and "dirty work" bigs are the sort that are a dime a dozen. Hassell is still relatively young and hasn't been able to find the same minutes anywhere else in the NBA. So even if I grant Cassel, Horford, Smith and Crawford are still better than anyone KG played with during his peak years (post 2000) in MN. Not to mention that in 7 of those first round exits, 4 times it was to the western conference champion and some of the all time best teams. And all 7 of them much better than any team the hawks have faced in the 1st round with the exception of Boston.

Point being that, yes, great players do need good supporting casts, but in the case of Joe Johnson we are talking about supporting casts that are already almost as good as him. Any better and he becomes the "supporting cast."

[AHF]

Joe with Carmelo and Amare becomes a more efficient scorer and the third best player on his team..not the#1 option.

[MaceCase]

Joe is not the guy who gets help he is the type of player who IS THE HELP for those caliber of players .

This is pretty much the only acceptable answer to this thread.

[AHF]

This is pretty much the only acceptable answer to this thread.

Agreed. That isn't to say that we need to shed him or his contract but he isn't the #1 on a championship team.

[Diesel]

Joe with Carmelo and Amare becomes a more efficient scorer and the third best player on his team..not the#1 option.

Who is the #1 option in Boston?

[AHF]

Who is the #1 option in Boston?

The #1 guy, ie best player on the team, in Boston's championship was Garnett.

JJ is the #3 guy with the Knicks.

[Guest]

The #1 guy, ie best player on the team, in Boston's championship was Garnett.

JJ is the #3 guy with the Knicks.

#1 in Boston?

KG on defense, PP on offense, Ray for the last second shot.

[Atlantaholic]

When Joe played with Amare and Nash, he was a 46% shooter from 3...

To look at our flawed team... with guys with little BBIQ and no post presence and no PG and say that we have put JJ in his best light is ridiculous.

Do you see how JJ annihilated Chicago in game 1 in Chicago when they didn't double him? After that, they doubled him the rest of the series and his average was:

19.7 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 3.2 apg.

Just to put it in perspective...

Dwayne Wade who has Lebron and Bosh.. played against tht same Chicago defense in the ECF and his average:

18.8, 6.7, 2,2.

Point is, Joe did it without much help. His help was Teague.

Joe torched Chicago in game 1 because he shot a ridiculous percentage from the outside. The reason he couldn't duplicate that effort was because it was a fluke. Just like his 46% from the outside was. You have 800+ games of 37% shooting from the outside and take a 80 game stretch where he played on a team where he was the third option and virtually stood at the corner the entire game waiting for a wide open shot as some kind of indicator of how good of a shooter he can be. JJ shouldn't even be mentioned in the same novel as Wade not to mention the same post. Number 1 options BEAT double teams my friend. Kobe, Garnett, Lebron, Wade, Durant, have put up MONSTER individual seasons without good PG's, good second scoring options, good centers, good benches etc. etc. etc. Joe has a pretty damn talented supporting cast but he can't manage to have a PER over 16 in the playoffs. His best playoff performance came when he was the third option on a loaded Phoenix team, which should tell you everything you need to know about the guy: If he needs an MVP and a 26 ppg scorer on the team to be able to be efficient in the playoffs, than I'm preeeety sure it is safe to say the guy is not the answer as a number 1 option for our team.

[Diesel]

The #1 guy, ie best player on the team, in Boston's championship was Garnett.

JJ is the #3 guy with the Knicks.

I disagree. Garnett was not the #1 guy... is not the #1 guy. They have a system where anybody can be the number 1 guy.

Garnett was the weaker of the scorers there.. How could he be #1?

My point is that when you have a team or a super team, there is no need to define #1 because at any given time, either guy could be #1.

Look at Miami... IN these playoffs, Against Chicago, Lebron was #1. Against Dallas Wade was #1. In their first round matchup, Bosh stepped up.

Look at Detroit.. both championship versions...

From day to day, you didn't know who would be #1.

I think it's a better model than proclaiming 1 guy number 1 and then watching him suffer.

It was Peirce who was the finals MVP the year that the Celtics won it. Not Garnett... Sorry.

It was Ray Allen who saved their *ss many times along the way.

[sasuke]

Pierce was/is the #1 option in Boston.

[MaceCase]

People are highly overrating offense in regards to the Celtics big 3. As Dlpin will confirm, KG has an absolute Bill Russell impact on the Celtics that extends well beyond just him making shots. Their title hopes have been entirely dependent on him being healthy and effective since the moment he stepped in the garden. His first year there he played at an All World level and they won the championship, sure Pierce won Finals MVP but then so did Chauncey over Ben Wallace and Parker over Duncan, the award rewards offensive numbers not necessarily overall impact. The next season KG goes down with the knee injury and the Celtics were taken to 7 by a weak Bulls team before being knocked out in the second round. The season after that KG was working his way back from the injury and subsequent surgery and many were claiming him and the Celtics were done because he would never fully recover from it. Towards the end of the season he got healthy and despite not having homecourt advantage beyond the 1st round the Celtics knocked off Wade and the Heat, Lebron and the best team in the league and then Dwight and his Finals' runnerup Magic and took the Lakers to 7 and within a few seconds of a 2nd title.

Simply put, KG is Boston's best player no ifs ands or buts. When Boston made the Ray Allen trade people still didn't think that would put them over the top but then they made the KG trade after and the talk immediately became championships. Pierce had been there a millennium yet the team became KG's once he got there and he became the face of the franchise. It's no different in Miami, Wade may be the best scorer on the team but Lebron is the best player on that team.

End of story, Joe is a complimentary piece to a championship team, his impact doesn't extend beyond scoring and he doesn't even do that at an elite enough level to be the top scoring option on a championship caliber team sporting two other stars. Put him on a team with Paul and Dwight and he will still be the 3rd best player there despite being the one that would probably take the last shot. He did come on the scene from a Phoenix team where he was the 4th option behind All Stars Amar'e, Nash and Marion and it wasn't because it just turned out that way. The excuse that he gets double teamed so much because he doesn't have good teammates around him is the biggest fallacy I've seen. Joe get's double teamed more than other stars not because he has more ability or his teammates are worse but rather because it is a sound defensive strategy against him. Without question, no other star gets as confounded or stifled as Joe does when faced by a double because teams know he can't split the double consistently, is slow to make the decision to pass and wants to take a difficult long 2 pointer to begin with. Team's quickly come off doubles against Wade and Kobe because they can split it every single time and force the defense to a scramble to recover, Dirk can shoot over or has the perfect vision at 7 feet to find the open man when faced with a double thus how even a Deshawn Stevenson has worth on the Dallas team. Only Dwight has close to the same amount of issues with doubles but even he can find 1of 4 wide open shooters when doubled and can make the easy pass beyond being so physically dominant on both ends of the floor. Joe doesn't offer any of these things and the offense was unfortunately built around him despite his limitations thus why he and the team have been so easily stifled in the playoffs when faced with something that literally every other marquee player has seen for the past 60 years yet somehow never managed to struggle as much as Joe has despite having a range of good to terrible teams around them.

Edited June 8, 2011 by CrawfulToCrawesome

[Jody23]

People are highly overrating offense in regards to the Celtics big 3. As Dlpin will confirm, KG has an absolute Bill Russell impact on the Celtics that extends well beyond just him making shots. Their title hopes have been entirely dependent on him being healthy and effective since the moment he stepped in the garden. His first year there he played at an All World level and they won the championship, sure Pierce won Finals MVP but then so did Chauncey over Ben Wallace and Parker over Duncan, the award rewards offensive numbers not necessarily overall impact. The next season KG goes down with the knee injury and the Celtics were taken to 7 by a weak Bulls team before being knocked out in the second round. The season after that KG was working his way back from the injury and subsequent surgery and many were claiming him and the Celtics were done because he would never fully recover from it. Towards the end of the season he got healthy and despite not having homecourt advantage beyond the 1st round the Celtics knocked off Wade and the Heat, Lebron and the best team in the league and then Dwight and his Finals' runnerup Magic and took the Lakers to 7 and within a few seconds of a 2nd title.

Simply put, KG is Boston's best player no ifs ands or buts. When Boston made the Ray Allen trade people still didn't think that would put them over the top but then they made the KG trade after and the talk immediately became championships. Pierce had been there a millennium yet the team became KG's once he got there and he became the face of the franchise. It's no different in Miami, Wade may be the best scorer on the team but Lebron is the best player on that team.

End of story, Joe is a complimentary piece to a championship team, his impact doesn't extend beyond scoring and he doesn't even do that at an elite enough level to be the top scoring option on a championship caliber team sporting two other stars. Put him on a team with Paul and Dwight and he will still be the 3rd best player there despite being the one that would probably take the last shot. He did come on the scene from a Phoenix team where he was the 4th option behind All Stars Amar'e, Nash and Marion and it wasn't because it just turned out that way. The excuse that he gets double teamed so much because he doesn't have good teammates around him is the biggest fallacy I've seen. Joe get's double teamed more than other stars not because he has more ability or his teammates are worse but rather because it is a sound defensive strategy against him. Without question, no other star gets as confounded or stifled as Joe does when faced by a double because teams know he can't split the double consistently, is slow to make the decision to pass and wants to take a difficult long 2 pointer to begin with. Team's quickly come off doubles against Wade and Kobe because they can split it every single time and force the defense to a scramble to recover, Dirk can shoot over or has the perfect vision at 7 feet to find the open man when faced with a double thus how even a Deshawn Stevenson has worth on the Dallas team. Only Dwight has close to the same amount of issues with doubles but even he can find 1of 4 wide open shooters when doubled and can make the easy pass beyond being so physically dominant on both ends of the floor. Joe doesn't offer any of these things and the offense was unfortunately built around him despite his limitations thus why he and the team have been so easily stifled in the playoffs when faced with something that literally every other marquee player has seen for the past 60 years yet somehow never managed to struggle as much as Joe has despite having a range of good to terrible teams around them.

I wish I could plus one you from a mobile phone. Awesome post sir.

Edited June 8, 2011 by Jody23

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I see that you used numbers for the Cassel part and not for the Sprewell part. Is that because 33 and 34 year old Sprewell in MN poster PERs of 14.7 and 12.1? (league average being 15).

That team, other than Cassel at 22.8, had no one esle even at PER 16. Their 3 point specialists and "dirty work" bigs are the sort that are a dime a dozen. Hassell is still relatively young and hasn't been able to find the same minutes anywhere else in the NBA. So even if I grant Cassel, Horford, Smith and Crawford are still better than anyone KG played with during his peak years (post 2000) in MN. Not to mention that in 7 of those first round exits, 4 times it was to the western conference champion and some of the all time best teams. And all 7 of them much better than any team the hawks have faced in the 1st round with the exception of Boston.

Point being that, yes, great players do need good supporting casts, but in the case of Joe Johnson we are talking about supporting casts that are already almost as good as him. Any better and he becomes the "supporting cast."

Your statements still don't take into account that the 2003 - 04 T-Wolves were a beautifully constructed team with 3 guys who could assume the #1 scorer role, who were surrounded by specialty role players. They were a better constructed team than us. And in that year, Cassell + Spree > Smith + Horford. Cassell and Spree could do something that Smith and Horford couldn't . . and that is create their own shot and score at a high level at times.

Spreewell's role on that team was that of a 3rd scorer. He was as streaky as they came during the regular season that year. It still didn't prevent him from scoring 20+ points in a game 34 times, and even 30+ points in 6 games. His mediocre PER still doesn't discount how important his role as a 3rd scorer was on that team. A 3rd scorer that didn't need people setting him up to score. He could get his own shot. And when playoff time came around, he upped his game to compensate for the hobbled Cassell, and averaged 20 ppg - 4 rebs - 4 asst. And if you want to put an emphasis on PER, he raised his PER to 17.7 in the playoffs. Most important though, he was able to elevate his game at times to borderline superstar level during that playoff run.

- 31 vs DEN ( 11 - 17 FG )

- 25 pts vs DEN ( 8 - 16 FG )

- 25 pts - 10 rebs - 6 asst vs SAC

- 34 pts - 7 rebs - 6 asst vs SAC

- 27 pts - 4 rebs - 5 stls vs SAC

- 23 pts - 6 rebs - 5 asst vs LAL

- 28 pts - 4 rebs - 5 asst vs LAL

- 27 pts - 4 rebs - 5 asst vs LAL

That's a so-called "3rd option" doing that. An "old man". But he was able to take his game to that next level at times during the playoffs. Of course, he's Spreewell, so he had a few stinkers during that playoff run too. But when you can get a star level game out of a 3rd option in 50% of the games you play, he becomes a major asset to the team. All I know is we couldn't get our 3rd option to do that this year . . or any year.

As for the rest of the players, Hassell was widely regarded as one better perimeter defenders in the league that year. Hoiberg was one of the league leaders in 3 point shooting and had a ridiculous TS% of .611. Johnson was a better version of Jason Collins.

People are simply delusional to think that guys like Smith and Horford are better than JJ, or even close to being better than him. If they were, the Hawks would win a lot more games when JJ had an off game. It would mean that when JJ went 4 - 15 FG in a game and scored 11 points, someone else would be able to consistently step up ( key word: CONSISTENTLY ) and post a high scoring point game and carry us to a win. That's what real good 2nd and 3rd options do, when the star struggles.

For years we'd searched for that 2nd option to team alongside JJ. And the only guy that stepped up to fill that role was Jamal Crawford. Smith can do it every now and then, but the limits in his offensive game makes him an unreliable guy to be a #2 option or even a #3 option at times.

There is no doubt that JJ is an inconsistent 1st option scorer. To me, his mentality is not aggressive enough to become the volume shooter that a 1st option needs to be at times. His passive play is more of a detriment to him at times, than him missing shots. Sometimes as the lead guy, you have to be willing to go 8 - 22 from the field, instead of settling to go 5 - 15. Take those extra 7 shots and see if you can make 4 or 5 of them, and see if it benefits the team. Too often, JJ is passive at the beginning of games, which enables teams to build a lead on the starting 5. Then if Jamal can't pick up the slack on the 2nd unit, a 6 point lead quickly balloons into a 12 point lead, and there's not much we can do about it unless the team starts playing lockdown defense.

I think it was AHF earlier in this thread that said that if Boozer replaced someone like Smith, that JJ and Boozer ( the Boozer that Chicago thought they were getting ) couldn't get us to that next level. I think they'll get us closer. but maybe not to the Finals. But add a 3rd guy of slighly less or equal value, say an Andre Miller playing the point, and I believe that a JJ - Boozer - Miller trio, with JJ being the lead guy, could get us there. That would be the balance that we need as a team. But we'd have to have decent role players around them to supplement what they could or couldn't give us.

Minny's top 3 players played better than our top 3 players. And their role players played better than our role players. That's how they won 58 games and got a #1 seed in the West that year. Had Cassell not gone down at the beginning of the Laker series that year, it would've been interesting to see if the T-Wolves could've beaten that team. They had the stars and the role players to beat them.

Edited June 8, 2011 by northcyde