Can the Hawks win a title with JJ as the #1 guy?

[Crank]

I can say with a straight face that if JJ had Doc Rivers and two players as great as Allen, Pierce, or Garnett that he could win a title as the lead guy.

Not to mention a PG like Rondo. An enforcer like Perkins. A stretch 5 with a nice post game like Rasheed, Big Baby, P.J. Brown, Tony Allen etc. KG is getting a little too much credit. Surrounded by that kind of group JJ gets to the finals imo.

If JJ had Pierce or KG on the team he wouldnt be the lead guy ........THEY WOULD

[TheNorthCydeRises]

JJ will do his own thing and that kills the offense, does not involve others. If he's hot and making his shots we are hot. If he doesn't then the offense goes down the tube. And in the playoffs the other teams are ready for his ISO Joe and we're sunk.

And that's the other thing about this topic. How can fans expect JJ to play at a superstar level, if they cringe everytime he tries to do his "own thing"? All superstar, and even star players, do their "own thing" at some point in the game. But everytime JJ does it, especially in the 4th quarters of games, people have a fit.

People talk about JJ not involving others, yet, he's almost guaranteed to get you 4 assists a game from the SG spot . . and lead the team in assists 70% of the time. And his assist totals would be higher if he had shooters around him. Bibby and Marvin were the beneficiaries of JJ's passes out of double teams for years . . until they started missing wide open shots. Teams know they can double JJ and shut us down, because the rest of the team can't shoot. This forces us to play JJ and Jamal at the same time, with Jamal sometimes at PG, despite the dropoff we'll have with him playing the point.

JJ no doubt has to elevate his game, in order for the Hawks to go further. When he's done that in the past, we're a tough team to beat. He has to play at a high level on a more consistent basis.

But it would be nice if he had guys around him that when he passed the ball to them, could knock down shots. But like RedDawg said . . maybe the switch should be JJ receiving passes at the end of the shot clock from a pass from someone else, than JJ passing to one of the Hawks as the shot clock runs down. That means that we're going to have to obtain either another scorer who can get his own shot . . or Teague will have to emerge as not only a scoring PG, but a playmaking PG who can see JJ when he's open on the outside.

Either way the talent ( or shooting ) on this team has to improve. Drew's "spread the wealth" offense was NOT what was best for this team. People were shooting the ball that didn't need to be shooting it at times. Meanwhile, our main scorers got even less shots. That's not a recipe for winning. Drew needs to fix that going into next year.

Play Teague alongside JJ next year, and see if that gives us the type of dynamic in the backcourt that will make the team better overall offensively. Let Teague slash, shoot floaters and pass . . while JJ catches and shoot, with having the option to go ISO when facing single coverage.

[JTB]

I think it was Diesel that brought up the Paul Pierce example, which was a guy who was much maligned by the fan base as a guy who couldn't get the Celtics even to playoff level once Antoine Walker left. But once he got legit help in the form of KG and Allen, he all of a sudden became a more efficient, even iconic player for the Celtics. Because he didn't have to do it every night, he sacrificed some of his shots, but made the most of the shots he took.

JJ can't win it as him being the sole go-to guy . . no.

Could he be that 1a, if he were paired with someone like a Chris Paul ( who would lead the team in assists, but not necessarily in points )? I think so, if the 3rd guy was a scoring big. ( JJ - Paul - Horford or Smith . . . possibly )

Could he and Stoudemire get it done, alternating on who is "the guy" . . possibly, if the 3rd guy was a guard or a scoring/defensive small forward. ( JJ - Iggy - Amare . . . possibly )

One thing is for sure, a guy like Derrick Rose isn't winning anything, unless he gets a legit #2 or a 1a to play alongside him. Rose - JJ - Noah could get to the Finals.

dam very good points! +1

[AnthonyI11]

The answer is no and it's not even close.

[sasuke]

Who else is going to be the 1rst option? Al doesn't get enough touches, Smoove has no BB IQ, Crawford is not consistent & a ball-hog. Of course, JJ with his contract taking almost one third of our cap there's no way you can have another 1b or 1c. Coursed the day, hour, minute, second, millisecond & nanosecond in which Sund handed out that damned contract. So, there you have it ,for the next 5 years, your #1 option that in his prime din't do it, don't think he can do it now or later.

[Diesel]

Who else is going to be the 1rst option? Al doesn't get enough touches, Smoove has no BB IQ, Crawford is not consistent & a ball-hog. Of course, JJ with his contract taking almost one third of our cap there's no way you can have another 1b or 1c. Coursed the day, hour, minute, second, millisecond & nanosecond in which Sund handed out that damned contract. So, there you have it ,for the next 5 years, your #1 option that in his prime din't do it, don't think he can do it now or later.

That contract is not a hinderance to us getting a 1a.

Not when we have:

Marvin Williams - 8 Million.

Hinrich - 10 Million.

Zaza - 5 Million.

That's 23 Million coming off the bench.

Then we have :

Josh = 10 Million

Horf = 10 Million (to be).

20 more million in players that can't create for themselves.

So that's 43 More million beside Joe that is really all tradable.

You're damning Joe's contract, but do you damn all the stuff he does on the court for this team too?

Take away Joe and this team is lottery bound.

Just imagine though. If one superstar either Howard or Paul said they really wanted to play in Atlanta. And we have 43 Million dollars that we can use to trade for them..

The results - if we do it right.. would be a team that will compete for a title.

Aren't you tired of Joe trying to win with:

Acie, Salim, Kenny Andersen, Old *ss Kevin Willis, Antoine Walker, Jason Collins, Jason Collier, and the host of ham and eggers he has been expected to win with?

The truth as I see it is that everytime Josh lines up for a 3, Joe ought to run over there and slap the Stuffings out of him.. Maybe then, Joe would earn more of that damned contract.

[Supporter]

To answer this question, no. Joe is good for certain roles, but to be the best guy/leader on a championship team is simply not his role. He is the do it all guy, can get you a bucket when you need it most, but to be the best player consistently throughout the whole playoffs, I honestly don't think Joe is that guy. The difference between a guy like Pierce and Joe is that Pierce has the attitude to be THAT GUY, Joe just wants to be laid back and undercover.

[AHF]

Sturt . . the sad thing about this thread is that of the games that we DID win in the playoffs, JJ was either THE REASON or the 2nd top reason why.

And people saw that, but rip into the guy because he couldn't do it for 12 games, instead of 6.

Just in case you are taking offense at my posts, let me clarify that I am not saying to bash JJ to bits and declare him the primary problem for our team. Far from it. The fact that he is the most important offensive player on the team and either the best or 2nd best player on the team doesn't mean he can win a championship as a team's best player, though.

The fact is that if we had guys on JJ's level, especially if they're guys who can get their own shot . . with one of those being a big . . we probaly beat Chicago.

Because even if JJ was off, you'd have 2 other guys who could take the scoring lead.

People talk about KG in Boston, but the better comparison may be to talk about KG in Minnesota. KG in Munnesota was a very good player who couldn't get it done in the playoffs. 7 consecutive 1st round losses for him. And their fans talked about how he couldn't make game winning shots.

But lo and behold, as soon as he got complimentarty guys who had the ability to take over a game and make big shots, keeping KG from doing everything, the T-Wolves damn near made the NBA Finals. (Talking about Cassell and Spreewell, of course ).

KG with less talent than JJ took Minnesota to the Conference Finals and from 1999-2004 he put up a median PER in the playoffs of 25.0 in the playoffs.

In JJ's 4 years in the playoffs in Atlanta his career high is a 15.8 PER.

Just not comparable. That is why KG + two lesser players who can score = championship.

JJ needs someone better than him as the best player on his team to win a championship.

JJ and Jamal, when playing together, are essentially 1a and 1b. So imagine if we had a 1c that did most of his scoring down low? At that point, we may only need 2 of the 3 to be real good on any given night, to win a game. If all 3 were good, we'd be tough to beat.

Let's assume we add an interior scorer on JJ's level like Carlos Boozer. We aren't going to be close to the finals if we ditch Al Horford and add a better scorer like Carlos Boozer or David West.

[99PROBL3MS]

I still think that KG is getting too much credit as the guy on those successful BOS teams. He was definitely a key cog and perhaps the most important but those teams were well constructed and and well coached. Our current roster pales in comparison to those BOS teams and JJ isn't the reason why. I get the premise, but don't see much symmetry between the two situations.

[Dexmethylphenidate]

I still think that KG is getting too much credit as the guy on those successful BOS teams. He was definitely a key cog and perhaps the most important but those teams were well constructed and and well coached. Our current roster pales in comparison to those BOS teams and JJ isn't the reason why. I get the premise, but don't see much symmetry between the two situations.

I agree. People is underestimating the impact of Rondo. Imo, they would be a middle of the pack team like the Hawks if it weren't for Rondo to get them to the next level.

Hopefully Teague can do the same to this Hawks team next season.

[Crank]

I think people keep forgetting that KG came to Boston as a SUPERSTAR !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not a "all star" but a player many considered to be one of the 5 best platers in the game a legit quadruple double threat .

Rondo AND pierce AND Doc Rivers

Paul Pierce,

Al Jefferson,

Wally Szczerbiak,

Delonte West,

Ryan Gomes,

Tony Allen,

Gerald Green,

Rajon Rondo,

Allan Ray,

Sebastian Telfair

Kevinn Pinkney,

Kendrick Perkins,

Leon Powe, PF

Brian Scalabrine,

Theo Ratliff,

Michael Olowokandi,

COACHED BY DOC RIVERS

RECORD 24-58 LAST IN THE CONFERENCE

Rivers was on his way to being fired wow talk about short memories

The Boston Celtics acquired guard Ray Allen from the Seattle Supersonics on Thursday night for Delonte West, Wally Szczerbiak and the rights to the 2007 NBA Draft's No. 5 overall pick -- Georgetown forward Jeff Green. Boston also gets the rights to the Sonics' 35th pick -- LSU's Glen Davis.

Boston sent the Minnesota Timberwolves forwards Al Jefferson, Ryan Gomes and Gerald Green, guard Sebastian Telfair and center Theo Ratliff, two first-round draft picks and cash considerations. Besides Ratliff, 34, the other four are 24 or younger.

The amount of excuses some of you are making with these comparisons is simply unreal . Joe does not suck but Joe is not on a Garnetts level not even close .

Comparing all star players to top ten players is simply crazy .

Pierce like Joe made a 3rd team all nba team but Boston decided that to actually win anything they would have to go and get a superstar which is what they did in Garnett who up to the year he was traded to Boston was either 1st or 2nd team all nba and 1st or 2nd team all defensive team .

I dont even know why I have to explain that .....

[AHawks89]

Let's see how this team is different with Teague as the starting PG. I can see this team being legit if things turn out like they looked. He just need some PT, and we'll see how things flow. Am I saying keep the same team? No. Am I saying we should trade? No. Either or, I see this team being a hell lot better from last year since we will have Kirk & Teague getting more PT and knowing the team better.

[Diesel]

I think people keep forgetting that KG came to Boston as a SUPERSTAR !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not a "all star" but a player many considered to be one of the 5 best platers in the game a legit quadruple double threat .

Rondo AND pierce AND Doc Rivers

Paul Pierce,

Al Jefferson,

Wally Szczerbiak,

Delonte West,

Ryan Gomes,

Tony Allen,

Gerald Green,

Rajon Rondo,

Allan Ray,

Sebastian Telfair

Kevinn Pinkney,

Kendrick Perkins,

Leon Powe, PF

Brian Scalabrine,

Theo Ratliff,

Michael Olowokandi,

COACHED BY DOC RIVERS

RECORD 24-58 LAST IN THE CONFERENCE

Rivers was on his way to being fired wow talk about short memories

The amount of excuses some of you are making with these comparisons is simply unreal . Joe does not suck but Joe is not on a Garnetts level not even close .

Comparing all star players to top ten players is simply crazy .

Pierce like Joe made a 3rd team all nba team but Boston decided that to actually win anything they would have to go and get a superstar which is what they did in Garnett who up to the year he was traded to Boston was either 1st or 2nd team all nba and 1st or 2nd team all defensive team .

I dont even know why I have to explain that .....

No. By the time he was traded, he was no longer considered a superstar. He was seen as a statpadder who was on the down side of his career. He had never met the promise that his stats and allstar appearances suggested. That's why they traded him.

[sasuke]

That contract is not a hinderance to us getting a 1a.

Not when we have:

Marvin Williams - 8 Million.

Hinrich - 10 Million.

Zaza - 5 Million.

That's 23 Million coming off the bench.

Then we have :

Josh = 10 Million

Horf = 10 Million (to be).

20 more million in players that can't create for themselves.

So that's 43 More million beside Joe that is really all tradable.

You're damning Joe's contract, but do you damn all the stuff he does on the court for this team too?

Take away Joe and this team is lottery bound.

Just imagine though. If one superstar either Howard or Paul said they really wanted to play in Atlanta. And we have 43 Million dollars that we can use to trade for them..

The results - if we do it right.. would be a team that will compete for a title.

Aren't you tired of Joe trying to win with:

Acie, Salim, Kenny Andersen, Old *ss Kevin Willis, Antoine Walker, Jason Collins, Jason Collier, and the host of ham and eggers he has been expected to win with?

The truth as I see it is that everytime Josh lines up for a 3, Joe ought to run over there and slap the Stuffings out of him.. Maybe then, Joe would earn more of that damned contract.

Who is going to give us their 1a for what we have? Usually teams that want to rebuild are the ones that give up their 1a, & to get them you need quality picks, expirings, young prospects under rookie contracts & cash. We just have Hinrich expiring & that's it. Teague is a young prospect under rookie contract but you don't want to trade him after what you saw against the bulls, do you? You can make a case if we say Al & josh can gives a REAL 1a between the 2 of them, but who? Deron Williams? Chris Paul? DH12? Only in your imagination with your "out of the cereal box" trades.

Life without JJ.........let see:

A sign & trade to NY could've give you Chandler & a 15 mill TPE & the chance to sign an MLE player without paying tax if TPE not used completely.

A sing & trade to Chicago could've give you Deng, who is more worth of his contract than JJ of his & on his prime, & the chance to sign an MLE player without paying tax.

In 2 or 3 years, if things didn't pan out, it would've been easier to rebuild, retool, recore? since there will be no player earning 18 mill + on his 30s that nobody will want.

All that it's called flexibility, and JJ's contract took it from us.

Marvin will give you nothing in return, & maybe will cost you a pick to get rid of him & still get nothing in return.

I don't have a problem with Hinrich staying here or being shipped for a better player.

I think that Zaza's contract is pure gold considering how other bigs are getting paid more by doing the same or less than him if we take out the ones under the rookie scale(dahh!). He should be a keeper.

I will conclude with the following statement: to win a championship you need a 1a and 1b plus a supporting cast build around them. You can't win it with just one of those. That's why James, Wade & Bosh took less money so they could have the flexibility to get a good supporting cast.

Edited June 3, 2011 by sasuke

[HawkItus]

Who is going to give us their 1a for what we have? Usually teams that want to rebuild are the ones that give up their 1a, & to get them you need quality picks, expirings, young prospects under rookie contracts & cash. We just have Hinrich expiring & that's it. Teague is a young prospect under rookie contract but you don't want to trade him after what you saw against the bulls, do you? You can make a case if we say Al & josh can gives a REAL 1a between the 2 of them, but who? Deron Williams? Chris Paul? DH12? Only in your imagination with your "out of the cereal box" trades.

Life without JJ.........let see:

A sign & trade to NY could've give you Chandler & a 15 mill TPE & the chance to sign an MLE player without paying tax if TPE not used completely.

A sing & trade to Chicago could've give you Deng, who is more worth of his contract than JJ of his & on his prime, & the chance to sign an MLE player without paying tax.

In 2 or 3 years, if things didn't pan out, it would've been easier to rebuild, retool, recore? since there will be no player earning 18 mill + on his 30s that nobody will want.

All that it's called flexibility, and JJ's contract took it from us.

Marvin will give you nothing in return, & maybe will cost you a pick to get rid of him & still get nothing in return.

I don't have a problem with Hinrich staying here or being shipped for a better player.

I think that Zaza's contract is pure gold considering how other bigs are getting paid more by doing the same or less than him if we take out the ones under the rookie scale(dahh!). He should be a keeper.

I will conclude with the following statement: to win a championship you need a 1a and 1b plus a supporting cast build around them. You can't win it with just one of those. That's why James, Wade & Bosh took less money so they could have the flexibility to get a good supporting cast.

You seem to forget all the flexibility we had before and with JJ. It amounted to a hill of beans. Why? Because we didn't have enough salary to play in the big boy leagues. Remember? We had no chance at any of the big name trades because we couldn't offer relief. Our best chance of getting a superstar was through the draft. We blew it. Not having JJ wouldn't change that. We still wouldn't have a chance at a superstar.

[sasuke]

You seem to forget all the flexibility we had before and with JJ. It amounted to a hill of beans. Why? Because we didn't have enough salary to play in the big boy leagues. Remember? We had no chance at any of the big name trades because we couldn't offer relief. Our best chance of getting a superstar was through the draft. We blew it. Not having JJ wouldn't change that. We still wouldn't have a chance at a superstar.

And you seem to forget the sign & trade.

[Diesel]

And you seem to forget the sign & trade.

You just said... who is going to give up their 1a for what we have.... You said that.

now you believe our answer is SNT without Joe??

sasuke... be consistent.

If teams don't like our other players when we have Joe.

Nothing changes when we don't have him. (give me my +1 there).

Secondly.

Either you have to admit that we do have quality players to trade with and that building a team around our best players with a plan makes the most sense... or You have to admit that you just don't like Joe and you want him gone regardless of what we do. With that second admission, you also have to admit that you have no idea if moving Joe for the likes of Chandler will put us for enough in the lottery to even make a difference nor you have no idea of how it will effect our championship possibilities.

Let me paint this picture for you.

We trade Joe to NY for Chandler ...

Now, NY has:

Amare, Carmelo, and Joe. (and a better shot at CP3 than most other teams).

Now... Miami has:

their big three.

Now Chicago has it's team game.

Now Boston has It's aging big three with Green.

But the lowly Hawks have... Nobody who can create for themselves and 15 Million in capspace.

Here's the jeopardy question for you...

How long will it take the Hawks going back to the drawing board before they are competitive again??

We certainly would have to wait out this generation.

I hope you understand why your plan is so ridiculous.

[Crank]

No. By the time he was traded, he was no longer considered a superstar. He was seen as a statpadder who was on the down side of his career. He had never met the promise that his stats and allstar appearances suggested. That's why they traded him.

So KG at 29 was a stat padder on the downside of his career ? he was a no longer a superstar

KG had a player option and thoughts were he was gonna take it thats why the Twolves traded Garnett its no surprise that he got his current 100 million dollar deal after the trade .

You are simply rewriting history to try and fit it into your theory

1998-99 NBA All-NBA (3rd)

1999-00 NBA All-Defensive (1st)

1999-00 NBA All-NBA (1st)

2000-01 NBA All-Defensive (1st)

2000-01 NBA All-NBA (2nd)

2001-02 NBA All-Defensive (1st)

2001-02 NBA All-NBA (2nd)

2002-03 NBA All-Defensive (1st)

2002-03 NBA All-NBA (1st)

2003-04 NBA All-Defensive (1st)

2003-04 NBA All-NBA (1st)

2004-05 NBA All-Defensive (1st)

2004-05 NBA All-NBA (2nd)

2005-06 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)

2006-07 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)

2006-07 NBA All-NBA (3rd)

2007-08 NBA All-Defensive (1st) first year with the Celtics

2007-08 NBA All-NBA (1st)

2008-09 NBA All-Defensive (1st)

2010-11 NBA All-Defensive (1st)

seriously Diesel

30 Mark Blount

31 Ricky Davis

4 Randy Foye

21 Kevin Garnett

41 Eddie Griffin

23 Trenton Hassell

16 Troy Hudson

13 Mike James

55 Marko Jaric

35 Mark Madsen

1 Rashad McCants

9 Justin Reed

5 Craig Smith

6 Bracey Wright

thats his final Twolves roster before being traded to the celtics roflmao just cut it out man

Edited June 3, 2011 by Crank

[sasuke]

You just said... who is going to give up their 1a for what we have.... You said that.

now you believe our answer is SNT without Joe??

How the heck are you going to S&T Joe without Joe????????? Read my previous post.

sasuke... be consistent.

If teams don't like our other players when we have Joe.

Nothing changes when we don't have him. (give me my +1 there).

I'm talking about S&T JJ, what the heck are you talking about???????

And you can neg me all you want I don't care about the +/-. worrying about that is childish.

Secondly.

Either you have to admit that we do have quality players to trade with and that building a team around our best players with a plan makes the most sense... or You have to admit that you just don't like Joe and you want him gone regardless of what we do. With that second admission, you also have to admit that you have no idea if moving Joe for the likes of Chandler will put us for enough in the lottery to even make a difference nor you have no idea of how it will effect our championship possibilities.

Let me paint this picture for you.

We trade Joe to NY for Chandler ...

Now, NY has:

Amare, Carmelo, and Joe. (and a better shot at CP3 than most other teams).

How on God's green earth are you going to land CP3 with 3 max contract on the cap already?????? It's not MLB, sorry.

Now... Miami has:

their big three.

Now Chicago has it's team game.

Now Boston has It's aging big three with Green.

But the lowly Hawks have... Nobody who can create for themselves and 15 Million in capspace.

What cap space are you talking about??????

Here's the jeopardy question for you...

How long will it take the Hawks going back to the drawing board before they are competitive again??

We certainly would have to wait out this generation.

I hope you understand why your plan is so ridiculous.

Ok, you're missing 3 letters: T.....P......E

Utah got it for Boozer, Cavs for James & Raptors for Bosh.

Utah used it to get Big Al, Cavs are pushing hard to use it & Raptors just don't care about it cuz they want to be under the cap.

Players previously or currently on the block due to salary dump to use TPE with picks/JC2/other players on:

Baron Davis

Rip Hamilton

Iggy

Big Al

Gerald Wallace

Mayo

With Davis we are talking Bibby out & THE 1RST OVERRAL PICK in. Draft or trade, your choice.

With Rip, the 8th pick in (Trade with Cavs didn't happened cuz Rip refused to go to the Cavs). Draft or trade, your choice.

NY S&T: JJ for 16 mill TPE (don't ignore it), Chandler & room for MLE player without paying tax if TPE not used completely.

Bulls S&T: JJ for Deng, who is more worth of his contract than JJ of his & on his prime, & the chance to sign an MLE player without paying tax.

Understood?

My problem is not with JJ, is with his max contract with a penny pincher organization just on the verge of getting out of his prime, when freaking prime LeBron James took less money to give his team more flexibility. Nothing against Joe, who I think is a great 1b or 2nd option, call it like you want.

.

Edited June 4, 2011 by sasuke

[Diesel]

You said:

Ok, you're missing 3 letters: T.....P......E

Utah got it for Boozer, Cavs for James & Raptors for Bosh.

Utah used it to get Big Al, Cavs are pushing hard to use it & Raptors just don't care about it cuz they want to be under the cap.

Players previously or currently on the block due to salary dump to use TPE with picks/JC2/other players on:

Baron Davis

Rip Hamilton

Iggy

Big Al

Gerald Wallace

Mayo

With Davis we are talking Bibby out & THE 1RST OVERRAL PICK in. Draft or trade, your choice.

With Rip, the 8th pick in (Trade with Cavs didn't happened cuz Rip refused to go to the Cavs). Draft or trade, your choice.

NY S&T: JJ for 16 mill TPE (don't ignore it), Chandler & room for MLE player without paying tax if TPE not used completely.

Bulls S&T: JJ for Deng, who is more worth of his contract than JJ of his & on his prime, & the chance to sign an MLE player without paying tax.

Understood?

My problem is not with JJ, is with his max contract with a penny pincher organization just on the verge of getting out of his prime, when freaking prime LeBron James took less money to give his team more flexibility. Nothing against Joe, who I think is a great 1b or 2nd option, call it like you want.

Here's what I need you to understand. We could have a trillion dollars in TPE, Cold Hard Cash, or Money under the cap. The result is going to be that we would still have to overpay for a free agent and without Joe, it is more than likely that we will not be able to get a superstar here... no matter how much money we have.

I know this because we've been here before. We've done the experiment. We have observed the results...and some of us have remembered that when have money, it's is damn near impossible to attract players to this franchise.

We are not some storied franchise with a stable ownership and a track record of doing what it takes to win a championship. We are a team with "green" owners who may have their hearts in the right place, but do not have the juice among the players to excite them or to validate the claim that we want to win.

That's #1.

Secondly. You may ask, why is that the reputation with all of our playoff appearances...

Well, take a look. Who is our coach?

We have had 2 assistant coaches that had never coached a team under these owners. Most championship teams have coaches that have been to a finals before.

Players know this. Star players know this all too well. Rookie coaches rarely go that far.

Thirdly.

Have you looked at what's going on in the league. We are entering the era of the superteams. You know Boston's big three. Miami's big three. NY is tryin to get a Big three. The Lakers had a big three. What does Atlanta have?? Lately, it's been Joe carrying a bunch of young players who can't create for themselves. The fact that Joe didn't take his talents to NY is amazing to me. Young teams rarely win anything. That's why this summer, Chicago will sell off most of their talented youth for a Star SG... and will have their big three. That's why Orlando will do all that it can to get CP3 so that it can have something like a big three.

Instead of us noticing what is happening in the league, you want to dilute our talent because of his contract?

Really?

Seriously?

He's still the best & most consistent player we have and the playoffs proved that.

Here's my thing. If you sell off Joe the way you describe, we will get younger but we will have no consistency. It will be 2006 all over again.