Be honest, if Josh Smith wasn't a Hawk

[AHF]

but honestly, is he averaging more than 3 outside shots per game?

He is averaging 7 shots per game from 16 feet and out, just under 50% of his total attempts.

[Admin]

He is averaging 7 shots per game from 16 feet and out, just under 50% of his total attempts.

:ahf:

[Jody23]

Josh was never even a SF before the NBA, let alone a PF. He was a SG in high school and that's why he'll always have the mindset of a guard.

This is true, which is why I wonder why many are so quick to say the Hawks would be foolish to even consider moving him and that there would be no way the Hawks could ever become a contender without him when the facts suggest that's not even close to being true. But then again, many fans aren't totally objective when it comes to Josh. I'm wondering what would happen if Josh asks for more money to resign after next season. What will fans say then?

[Joker]

Josh does a lot. I think he's an All Star truthfully. But if he wasn't a Hawk would I want him at all as a starter? No.

[hazer]

Is there a way to personally block a particular poster altogether so I don't even have to look at their ridiculousness anymore? My finger is getting really tired from pressing the ignore button

[Admin]

Is there a way to personally block a particular poster altogether so I don't even have to look at their ridiculousness anymore? My finger is getting really tired from pressing the ignore button

Type their username into this page.

FYI you cannot block me, no matter how much you might wish!

[hazer]

Type their username into this page.

FYI you cannot block me, no matter how much you might wish!

Preesh! Hahaaaa, was refering to someone else

[Admin]

Preesh! Hahaaaa, was refering to someone else

For the sake of being a politically correct admin I threw myself on the alter... but I knew you were likely referring to someone else. Although I'm sure many on here would love to be able to block me!

[MaceCase]

Would it be any different than the debates that we have over acquiring guys like Monta Ellis? (ducks fanboys overreaction at the comparison). Talented player on one end of the floor, complete detriment on the other despite ability to be better. Combo/Tweener with specific elite skillset that doesn't mesh well with size i.e. plays like 6'6" in a 6'3" body or plays like 6'10" in a 6'8" body. Has to have specific frontcourt/backcourt mate to offset size issues. Slight head case on/off the court.

In other words, talent is there but teams really aren't breaking down doors to acquire guys like this due to issues with roster construction and teams that have them aren't rushing to trade them because they can't receive packages worthy of perceived talent level.

[Diesel]

Would it be any different than the debates that we have over acquiring guys like Monta Ellis? (ducks fanboys overreaction at the comparison). Talented player on one end of the floor, complete detriment on the other despite ability to be better. Combo/Tweener with specific elite skillset that doesn't mesh well with size i.e. plays like 6'6" in a 6'3" body or plays like 6'10" in a 6'8" body. Has to have specific frontcourt/backcourt mate to offset size issues. Slight head case on/off the court.

In other words, talent is there but teams really aren't breaking down doors to acquire guys like this due to issues with roster construction and teams that have them aren't rushing to trade them because they can't receive packages worthy of perceived talent level.

You know that's interesting. The foolish part of Hawks loyalist is that we believe that Josh can be coached not to do some of the things he does. It's Wood's fault. Woody showed us (in his last year) that Josh can be reached. Now, we look at LD as less of a disciplinarian and we all believe that a coach who comes in and benches Josh everytime he does something boneheaded would get Josh's attention. However, the question would it really work?

I agree with BabyBoy. Jody said that Josh never had the DNA to be a 4. I have said that for years. Josh gets real Punkish when the banging starts. I believe other teams know this and you see it in the playoffs. I thought Dwight Howard was going to take Josh's head off in the playoffs last year. Dwight has beat Josh to a pulp on the court and sometimes it has worked. The point is that at this point, Josh doesn't have the consistency to be our three and he is not made right to pound with the bangers. So the obvious thing to do is play him at the 4 until the bangers show up.

[macdaddy]

You know that's interesting. The foolish part of Hawks loyalist is that we believe that Josh can be coached not to do some of the things he does. It's Wood's fault. Woody showed us (in his last year) that Josh can be reached. Now, we look at LD as less of a disciplinarian and we all believe that a coach who comes in and benches Josh everytime he does something boneheaded would get Josh's attention. However, the question would it really work?

I agree with BabyBoy. Jody said that Josh never had the DNA to be a 4. I have said that for years. Josh gets real Punkish when the banging starts. I believe other teams know this and you see it in the playoffs. I thought Dwight Howard was going to take Josh's head off in the playoffs last year. Dwight has beat Josh to a pulp on the court and sometimes it has worked. The point is that at this point, Josh doesn't have the consistency to be our three and he is not made right to pound with the bangers. So the obvious thing to do is play him at the 4 until the bangers show up.

I really don't think Woody deserves much credit for Josh not taking 3s that year. I really believe Josh decided to do that on his own. If not it begs the question why did it take 6 years for that decision to come down from the coach.

Anyway, i always look at players nowadays and just wonder if the game has really changed this much or am i just ignorant or nostalgic for the old days. So many players lack the skills that all nba players except for centers and thugs had 30+ years ago. Namely ball-handling, shooting, finishing at the rim. Not that every old player was good at those things but they knew their limitations more. It seems like every game I watch I see guys who attempt drives to the basket or crazy shots that they have no prayer or really no plan of how to get it in the basket. Its drive wildly and toss the ball in the general direction of the rim. Old timers would be embarrassed to play like that. Sorry. Off topic.

[BrazilianHawk]

Babyboy (jk), I think to the thing to know is that Josh's focused defense can change a game and he has come along quite nicely in passing and a little in scoring. We see the totality of him shooting from outside.. but honestly, is he averaging more than 3 outside shots per game? I think the thing is that we had expectations that Josh would be Shawn Kemp with defense and when he wasn't that, we became complainers.

LOL!

You mean, 3 outside shots per quarter?

http://www.basketbal...03&year_id=2012

Just take a look at his shots this season. I don't think we need to do any math, but I will...

Total shots taken: 476 (14,0 shots per game)

Total outside shots (16 ft +): 212 (6,2 outside shots per game)

FG% (15ft or less): 150/264, .568

FG%(16ft +): 67/212, .316

I'm willing too see someone defend that outside shooting nimbers.

Edited February 29, 2012 by BrazilianHawk

[BrazilianHawk]

I really don't think Woody deserves much credit for Josh not taking 3s that year. I really believe Josh decided to do that on his own. If not it begs the question why did it take 6 years for that decision to come down from the coach.

One could think Smoove was forced and didn't like the idea of not shooting long jumpers. Let's see...

http://www.basketbal...03&year_id=2010

Season 2009-2010, Woody was the coach, Josh took only 13 3-pointers (regular season + playoffs). He made 2 of them.

Total shots taken: 865 (76,7%)

Total outside shots (16 ft +): 163 (23,3%)

FG% (15ft or less): 491/865, .568

FG%(16ft +): 75/163, .285

So... If it was Josh who decided not to shoot that many long jumpers, why did he revert? That was one of his better (if not the best) shooting seasons. I believe it was Woody.

Josh is now free. LD has no pulse to keep him in check. This is why I believe Josh can't be fixed while in the ATL. If I was a GM, I'd be really wary of signing him to a starting role. Too much outside shots, too inefficient.

Edited February 29, 2012 by BrazilianHawk

[Buzzard]

Take away Josh's obvious ties to Atlanta and I would not feel any better about getting him at PF as I would Al Harrington or Antoine Walker. In his prime I may favor Walker a little more.

16 and 9 best case from a undersized PF and people go balistic in Atlanta. In Boston they would be going home hum....

[AHF]

Take away Josh's obvious ties to Atlanta and I would not feel any better about getting him at PF as I would Al Harrington or Antoine Walker. In his prime I may favor Walker a little more.

16 and 9 best case from a undersized PF and people go balistic in Atlanta. In Boston they would be going home hum....

I would want Josh much more than either Walker or Harrington because of his defensive impact. Both of those guys outplayed the chair that defended Yi Jianlin, but not by too much.

Smith wins some games by blocking Dwayne Wade.

[Buzzard]

I would want Josh much more than either Walker or Harrington because of his defensive impact. Both of those guys outplayed the chair that defended Yi Jianlin, but not by too much.

Smith wins some games by blocking Dwayne Wade.

LOL. Josh is weakside defender, someone who can flash out on a guard. Which is why I have no problem comparing him to those two weak defenders. Now put Josh on a PF, and not a 6'4" SG, with some offensive post game and he gets schooled more times than not. More like bullied but the post is for bullies and not the faint of heart. Which is also why I think Josh does not drive to the hole but instead avoids contact like the plague chucking 20 ft jumps shots.

You have your opinion that he is a great defender, I have mine that thinks he has no heart when it comes to contact on either side of the court.

[AHF]

LOL. Josh is weakside defender, someone who can flash out on a guard. Which is why I have no problem comparing him to those two weak defenders. Now put Josh on a PF, and not a 6'4" SG, with some offensive post game and he gets schooled more times than not. More like bullied but the post is for bullies and not the faint of heart. Which is also why I think Josh does not drive to the hole but instead avoids contact like the plague chucking 20 ft jumps shots.

You have your opinion that he is a great defender, I have mine that thinks he has no heart when it comes to contact on either side of the court.

He is an excellent defender overall - an elite help defender and solid man defender (not great, not terrible).

Harrington and Walker were nowhere close to that. You harm your own argument in drawing the comparison, IMO.

That is like comparing Teague to Bibby. Sure, Teague has his problems on defense but comparing him to Bibby...come on man! That is my reaction to comparing Josh Smith and Al Harrington defensively.

[Buzzard]

He is an excellent defender overall - an elite help defender and solid man defender (not great, not terrible).

Harrington and Walker were nowhere close to that. You harm your own argument in drawing the comparison, IMO.

That is like comparing Teague to Bibby. Sure, Teague has his problems on defense but comparing him to Bibby...come on man! That is my reaction to comparing Josh Smith and Al Harrington defensively.

This thread was not about just defense. Just saying when I look at Al, Walker, and Josh's overall games I do not see any glaring strengths that makes one stand out over anyone else. I see Al and Josh as a wash. One much better offensively the other much better defensively. I like Walker and Harrington simply because they show me some heart and wil take a hit down low.

Time to stop making excuses for Josh and his lack of toughness as I see it. We criticize Marvin and Josh for not having any handles or decent footwork ( Marvin is considered clumsy by most here) But Marvin will bang, flail and flop ( at least f*cking try) his way into the paint and Josh IMO plays like a little girl who is afraid she may mess her hair up in a 6' 9" frame..

Edited March 1, 2012 by Buzzard