Better playing personality for this team: Joe or Josh?

[NineOhTheRino]

This coming from the excellent audio from the PCH post. I believe a team takes on the personality of it's best player. We know what this team is under Joe's leadership, and we've seen this team (albeit a much smaller sample size) under Josh. Which do you prefer?

Please don't factor in your dislike for Josh's shot selection.

• Judge by the passion and intensity each player brings to floor.
  
• Consider how each motivate teammates
  
• Consider the Heat game with Joe and the latest game without Joe
  

Edited March 9, 2012 by NineOhTheRino

[Diesel]

It's hard... Which of the two have you watched huddle the team up in the middle of an important stretch of the game? I would say Neither.

That's generally how I would view best personality.

It's like Tebow. Tebow was flawed.. very flawed.. but the one thing he could do was make those around him believe. It worked so well that even pundits and experts started to believe. In the end, being able to believe in a guy is more important than his technical ability. You just better hope that that guy is technically sound as well.

Both Joe and Josh are flawed in some way or the other. However, has either of them made their teammates believers? Which guy would the team follow into war and lay it all down for? When you figure that out, you have your personality.

[willthepureshooter]

It's hard... Which of the two have you watched huddle the team up in the middle of an important stretch of the game? I would say Neither.

That's generally how I would view best personality.

It's like Tebow. Tebow was flawed.. very flawed.. but the one thing he could do was make those around him believe. It worked so well that even pundits and experts started to believe. In the end, being able to believe in a guy is more important than his technical ability. You just better hope that that guy is technically sound as well.

Both Joe and Josh are flawed in some way or the other. However, has either of them made their teammates believers? Which guy would the team follow into war and lay it all down for? When you figure that out, you have your personality.

Josh actually huddled the team during the Orlando game. Hell, he's done plenty of times. It's usually after timeouts.

[Admin]

Josh actually huddled the team during the Orlando game. Hell, he's done plenty of times. It's usually after timeouts.

That's just so he can touch the other guys

[benhillboy]

I thought for sure there was gonna be a "neither" option so I could press it on the iPhone with vigor.

Edited March 9, 2012 by benhillboy

[benhillboy]

There goes that "no permission" again. Anyway, Is it me, or does Josh sound very intelligent during his half-time interviews? Almost like a coach? "We have to do a better job at boxing out and theyre killing us with the back door cuts. We need to be a little more physical, keeping a body on those guys and on the other end, we look pretty good, but a few possessions we wasted by standing around a little bit. Janero had the hot hand but we kinda got away from him. Well go in the locker room and correct those mistakes and keep our energy up because we know we can get out and run on this team. We have to get the ball out of player A's hands earlier because he's real comfortable coming off the PNR. If we keep our defensive intensity up and help each other a little more, we should be good". Huh? Is that Josh or Hubie Brown? He is clearly an intelligent player IMO, so I can't understand for the life if me why he doesn't think the game through better and more consistently than he does.

Edited March 9, 2012 by benhillboy

[HawkItus]

Yeah lets forget how Josh pouts, loafs, sabotages possessions etc. He's had a nice run these last 3 games, but come on. Guys kill me making JJ the bad guy. Josh not JJ has been here the longest. If he couldn't impress his will on this team in that amount time something is wrong.

[thecampster]

Let me quote myself from a different post.

http://hawksquawk.ne...__1#entry540421

Since 2008, Josh has missed 19 total games. The Hawks are 8-11 in those games. .421

Since 2008, Al has missed 49 total games. The Hawks are 26-23 in those games. .531

Since 2008, Joe has missed 25 total games. The Hawks are 15-10 in those games .600

Draw your own conclusions of course but based on this 4 year sample without Josh we are a below .500 team and would average 34.5 wins in an 82 game season. Without Al 43.5 games a year. Without Joe we would win 49.2 games a year.

What have we averaged the last 4 years? 48-34. Based on the Joe Sample we are 1.2 wins a year better if Joe isn't in the lineup. We are 4.5 games worse without Al. We are 13.5 games worse without Josh and don't make the playoffs.

The 25 game sample states the Hawks are a better team without Joe - no replacement. The 19 game sample suggests the Hawks don't make the playoffs without Josh.

Edited March 9, 2012 by thecampster

[Admin]

Let me quote myself from a different post.

http://hawksquawk.ne...__1#entry540421

The 25 game sample states the Hawks are a better team without Joe - no replacement. The 19 game sample suggests the Hawks don't make the playoffs without Josh.

Too many variables to draw any meaningful conclusions from that. Things like the quality of teams we were playing and who else was or was not playing at the time are major factors that can skew those numbers. It also speaks to the lack of a quality backup PF that we've had for the past 7 years so of course when Smith is out we're going to struggle. We've had Zaza to replace Al when he's out and we've had Flip or Jamal or Willie/Pargo/Hinrich to replace Joe when he's been out. What have we had to replace Josh, Joe Smith? Josh Powell? Solomon Jones? Othello Hunter?

[thecampster]

Making my point for me. Josh is harder to replace.

[Admin]

Making my point for me. Josh is harder to replace.

That's not the point at all. The point is that we've never had even a decent backup PF behind him and the majority of them are big time scrubs, while we've had past and present NBA starters backing up Horford and Joe. I think Joe Smith is the only guy who has started that ever backed up Josh, but of course that was before he was 40 (or however many) years old in Atlanta.

[BrazilianHawk]

eh... NineOh's rules for this thread make it almost impossible to vote Joe. Not a fair poll IMO.

[Guest Walter]

That's not the point at all. The point is that we've never had even a decent backup PF behind him and the majority of them are big time scrubs, while we've had past and present NBA starters backing up Horford and Joe. I think Joe Smith is the only guy who has started that ever backed up Josh, but of course that was before he was 40 (or however many) years old in Atlanta.

MW supposedly could play Pf for us. Harrington did.

Look. The win/loss stats don't say everything but they also do say something. It makes a point that shouldn't be overlooked. We lose A CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT more with JS out than when any other player is out. THAT says something. It may not be ENTIRELY causal like "we lose more...because JS is out" but it is definitely a factor that suggests JS is our most impactful player. You don't have to watch too many games or see too many stats such us "undefeated this season when JS scores 20 PPG" to realize he is the most impactful Hawk. This was probably true before Joe Johnson became Mr. Glass and his scoring diminished, but it is DEFINITELY true now.

W

[Wretch]

Neither of them should be leading the team. Both of them should be somebody's "Robin."