Comparison of the Day: PF

[MaceCase]

There's a difference between then and now.3 pters don't enhance when you shoot them in great volume and you're 27% from three. All that does is torpedo your FG%. Which is why I'm saying if Josh learned to curve his diet on long shots, he'd be better than Blake FG% wise. You've been to 82 games. You have done the comparison. You have seen what I seen... They say Josh is more efficient than Blake at the things he do the least and Blake does the most.. that's close shots and dunks.

Shooting 34% from 3 is the equivalent of shooting 50% from 2......this is the meaning behind the creation of eFG% and why I've used that over just traditional FG%. It doesn't torpedo his eFG% if Josh takes more 3s because he can hit less and be just as efficient as someone taking strictly 2s. I'll even simplify it.Player A takes 10 twos, hits 5 gets 10 pointsPlayer B takes 10 threes, hits 3 gets 9 pointsAnd you need to throw on your reading glasses and look over him being more efficient on close shots and dunks than Blakeon the same % volume it's 65% vs. 54% on close shots.on over twice the volume and less assissted it's 88% vs 98% on dunksReally, I don't even know what argument you were trying to make there outside of straw reaching.

[Buzzard]

I'm just glad our PF knows how to play some defense and has an all around game.

It's crazy as hell seeing people defend players over our own players. They're almost the same except Josh can pass the rock, and block shots, and play some defense, and yet you have fans arguing that x player is better.

It's always the same people... *sigh*

Josh's D was awesome last night as he was on his way to making Bass look like the reincarnation of Charles Barkley. All you NBA 2K guys pay attention to is blocks, jams, and steals. Start paying attention to how good the opposing teams power forward does against Josh.

Back when Marvin played the three and Horford was our center, the Josh fans tried to blame it on the switching of Marvin or Horford. That lame excuse does not fly now....When Bass puts up 21 and 10 instead of his normal 12 and 6, that is all on Josh. Now go find another excuse...

Edited April 12, 2012 by Buzzard

[HawkItus]

Did last nights exercise provide any more clarity for those who chose Josh in this comparison?

[coachx]

Shooting 34% from 3 is the equivalent of shooting 50% from 2......this is the meaning behind the creation of eFG% and why I've used that over just traditional FG%. It doesn't torpedo his eFG% if Josh takes more 3s because he can hit less and be just as efficient as someone taking strictly 2s. I'll even simplify it.Player A takes 10 twos, hits 5 gets 10 pointsPlayer B takes 10 threes, hits 3 gets 9 pointsAnd you need to throw on your reading glasses and look over him being more efficient on close shots and dunks than Blakeon the same % volume it's 65% vs. 54% on close shots.on over twice the volume and less assissted it's 88% vs 98% on dunksReally, I don't even know what argument you were trying to make there outside of straw reaching.

Bust Josh doesn't shoot 34% from 3............he shoots 25.9%.That 25.9% from 3 hurts both his standard FG% and his EFG%.Blake is obviously a much "smarter" player in terms of shot selection. Josh may have a better FG% on close shots but I bet he has half the attempts in the paint and twice the attempts on the premiter as Blake Griffith.Blake is head and shoulders above Josh in terms of basic basketball IQ......I've never seen him pretend to be a PG like Josh does nightly. Blake has the common sense / Basketball IQ" to play to his strength, unlike Josh.Josh is the better defender, no arguement there.......Blake is the better rebounder and his basic level of basketball IQ makes him a better offenive player....mainly due to shot selection and his habit of playing like a PF rather then a pretending to be a PG. Edited April 25, 2012 by coachx

[jy23]

Did last nights exercise provide any more clarity for those who chose Josh in this comparison?

No because if they ever thought that Josh was better than Blake than they were looking with very tainted glasses and nothing will ever change their view of that. Blake is head and shoulders better than Josh

[MaceCase]

Bust Josh doesn't shoot 34% from 3............he shoots 25.9%.

That 25.9% from 3 hurts both his standard FG% and his EFG%.

Blake is obviously a much "smarter" player in terms of shot selection. Josh may have a better FG% on close shots but I bet he has half the attempts in the paint and twice the attempts on the premiter as Blake Griffith.

Blake is head and shoulders above Josh in terms of basic basketball IQ......I've never seen him pretend to be a PG like Josh does nightly. Blake has the common sense / Basketball IQ" to play to his strength, unlike Josh.

Josh is the better defender, no arguement there.......Blake is the better rebounder and his basic level of basketball IQ makes him a better offenive player....mainly due to shot selection and his habit of playing like a PF rather then a pretending to be a PG.

*sigh* that 25% on 3 pointers is the equivalent of shooting 40% on 2.........Taking 3's does not torpedo someone's eFG%, it can only work to enhance it thus how numerous guards have high eFG% despite having low raw FG% due to taking a lot of the lower percentage 3s.

Diesel tried to make the argument that the 3ball is hurting his % on jumpers but the fact is that it's his absolutely horrid percentage on long 2s that's sinking his eFG% on jumpers to 37%. How much more f***ing evidence do people need when the season that he stopped taking 3s altogether he shot 28% on jumpers whereas the rest of his career he's averaging in the mid 30% on jumpers? Was he just somehow an even worse shooter that year..........or were his percentages not getting the boost from the extra value of 3s?

Rational people will side with the latter.

Edited April 25, 2012 by MaceCase

[Joker]

I don't like Griffin at all so I choose Smith. I really don't like any PF in today's game right now.

[AtLaS]

*sigh* that 25% on 3 pointers is the equivalent of shooting 40% on 2.........Taking 3's does not torpedo someone's eFG%, it can only work to enhance it thus how numerous guards have high eFG% despite having low raw FG% due to taking a lot of the lower percentage 3s.

Diesel tried to make the argument that the 3ball is hurting his % on jumpers but the fact is that it's his absolutely horrid percentage on long 2s that's sinking his eFG% on jumpers to 37%. How much more f***ing evidence do people need when the season that he stopped taking 3s altogether he shot 28% on jumpers whereas the rest of his career he's averaging in the mid 30% on jumpers? Was he just somehow an even worse shooter that year..........or were his percentages not getting the boost from the extra value of 3s?

Rational people will side with the latter.

While your numbers are correct, I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. Josh doesn't need to be taking long 2's or threes. If he's shooting 25% (40% eFG) on threes, it's still not ideal. Frankly, it sucks. I don't want that from my PF, or ANY player for that matter. If your percentage is that low you should not be shooting threes, period.

Not only is it inefficient, it gives the defense an extra defender for helping inside, it removes Smith from offensive rebounds and it means he's not playing to his strengths. The defense literally doesn't have to pay attention to him when he camps outside.

[MaceCase]

While your numbers are correct, I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. Josh doesn't need to be taking long 2's or threes. If he's shooting 25% (40% eFG) on threes, it's still not ideal. Frankly, it sucks. I don't want that from my PF, or ANY player for that matter. If your percentage is that low you should not be shooting threes, period.

Not only is it inefficient, it gives the defense an extra defender for helping inside, it removes Smith from offensive rebounds and it means he's not playing to his strengths. The defense literally doesn't have to pay attention to him when he camps outside.

You don't see the point because the problem with digging old threads from the grave is that new people won't actually spend the time reading through them. Of course he shouldn't be shooting anything from beyond ~5 feet but people will try to find anything they can in this debate to prop him up over the opponent such as........

I agree, he shoots better on his Jumpers... but...In the past 2 years, Blake has attempted 37 3 pters.. 37 in two years. Josh attempted 37 3ptrs last week.

Seriously, in the same time, Josh has attempted 249...

Now, if we were to take Josh's 249 and put it down to 37 attempts...

Josh would probably shoot much better in jumpshots.

Now my last few posts have been in direct response to that terrible reasoning for his poorer percentages to the supposedly less versatile Griffin. Josh is a terrible jumpshooter, period. It is neither a talent nor skill for him and anyone spending the energy to attempt to find excuses why it may look so terrible are only being foolish. I don't know how many ways I can put this, if not for the fact he shoots 40eFG% from a decent amount of 3s do you know what his FG% would be on 60% of his total offense (jumpers)?

35%

Simple math will tell you that averaging 40 with 35 willl give you a number higher than 35 but more than a few people are trying to tell me that the 40 is actually dropping the average on the 35....

In fact, as far back as I can check, there has not been a single season in Josh's career where he has shot a lower eFG% from 3 than he has from 2 point jumpers except.......you guessed it, 09-10. *sigh* but it's the 3ball that's affecting his jumpshooting......

[AtLaS]

You don't see the point because the problem with digging old threads from the grave is that new people won't actually spend the time reading through them. Of course he shouldn't be shooting anything from beyond ~5 feet but people will try to find anything they can in this debate to prop him up over the opponent such as........

Now my last few posts have been in direct response to that terrible reasoning for his poorer percentages to the supposedly less versatile Griffin. Josh is a terrible jumpshooter, period. It is neither a talent nor skill for him and anyone spending the energy to attempt to find excuses why it may look so terrible are only being foolish. I don't know how many ways I can put this, if not for the fact he shoots 40eFG% from a decent amount of 3s do you know what his FG% would be on 60% of his total offense (jumpers)?

35%

Simple math will tell you that averaging 40 with 35 willl give you a number higher than 35 but more than a few people are trying to tell me that the 40 is actually dropping the average on the 35....

In fact, as far back as I can check, there has not been a single season in Josh's career where he has shot a lower eFG% from 3 than he has from 2 point jumpers except.......you guessed it, 09-10. *sigh* but it's the 3ball that's affecting his jumpshooting......

I'd be willing to bet that no player in the league shoots the volume of jumpers (3's and 2's) that Josh does at a lower percentage. And anyone who does would be considered a cancer or scrub.

It's ludicrous to take anyone but Blake out of these two.

[coachx]

*sigh* that 25% on 3 pointers is the equivalent of shooting 40% on 2.........Taking 3's does not torpedo someone's eFG%, it can only work to enhance it thus how numerous guards have high eFG% despite having low raw FG% due to taking a lot of the lower percentage 3s.

I don't know why your sighing...........you act like you in a conversation with 1st graders where basic eFG% is beyond their comprehension level.

How can shooting 25% from 3 enhance ones eFG % ?

Of course shooting 36% from 3 will enhance eFG% but the only way shooting 25% from 3 would help a players eFG% was if their 2 point FG % was below 40%.

Edited April 27, 2012 by coachx

[HawkItus]

I'd be willing to bet that no player in the league shoots the volume of jumpers (3's and 2's) that Josh does at a lower percentage. And anyone who does would be considered a cancer or scrub.It's ludicrous to take anyone but Blake out of these two.

The answer is really simple.....if Blake was on this team in Josh's place would we be considered a contender? I think we would.

[MaceCase]

I don't know why your sighing...........you act like you in a conversation with 1st graders where basic eFG% is beyond their comprehension level.

How can shooting 25% from 3 enhance ones eFG % ?

Of course shooting 36% from 3 will enhance eFG% but the only way shooting 25% from 3 would help a players eFG% was if their 2 point FG % was below 40%.

.........You answered your question with your own following statement.

So it's clear that you grasp the point I've made repeatedly about Josh's jumpshooting now tell me, what exactly is it that you are arguing again?

[Supporter]

.........You answered your question with your own following statement.So it's clear that you grasp the point I've made repeatedly about Josh's jumpshooting now tell me, what exactly is it that you are arguing again?

This is what I don't understand in the argument. Won't that promote shooting threes in these type of extremes: if a player shoots 0% on 2 pointers but 1% on three pointers then they "should" shoot three pointers. Well, shouldn't they not be near the outside to begin with if they are such an awful shooter on both areas.

[MaceCase]

This is what I don't understand in the argument. Won't that promote shooting threes in these type of extremes: if a player shoots 0% on 2 pointers but 1% on three pointers then they "should" shoot three pointers. Well, shouldn't they not be near the outside to begin with if they are such an awful shooter on both areas.

I already mentioned why Josh shouldn't be barely outside of 5 feet taking shots and it's been discused to death on this board before that if he's going to be a stubborn mule launching just over 6 shots a game from 20 feet to the tune of ~35% regardless of any logic or reason then he might as well take the one step backwards and make the best out of a bad situation by taking the shot that he's hitting to the worth of ~40% instead. Edited April 27, 2012 by MaceCase

[AHF]

I already mentioned why Josh shouldn't be barely outside of 5 feet taking shots and it's been discused to death on this board before that if he's going to be a stubborn mule launching just over 6 shots a game from 20 feet to the tune of ~35% regardless of any logic or reason then he might as well take the one step backwards and make the best out of a bad situation by taking the shot that he's hitting to the worth of ~40% instead.

MacCase is 100% right on this.

(1) Josh shouldn't be shooting jumpers. If Josh stopped shooting long 2's and 3's then his efg% would increase significantly.

(2) Given that Josh does shoot jumpers, you can see that it is the 2pt jump shots that are less efficient (i.e., lower efg% on the 2pt jump shots than on 3pt jump shots).

(3) Given that Josh does shoot jumpers, him stopping taking 3pt shots would do two things: (a) it would increase his overall efg% which is driven up by his very effective interior play and (b) it would decrease his efg% on jump shots because the 2pt jump shots are are lower efficiency shot.

I'm not sure how there is so much confusion on his position when it reads so clearly to me.