Deron says JJ is big reason he changed his mind and went back to the Nets

[Joker]

Here is the biggest downfall on win shares. On our team Josh's value will obviously be much higher than if he were playing next to Kobe, Gasol, and Bynum. Josh is more valuable to us than he is to the Lakers, Heat, OKC etc..... Win/Shares shows us the obvious, big deal .... Period end of story. Link http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Win_shares

So would Joe. You think he wouldn't do much better in a role that fits him.

[Joker]

Top 3?? Off the top of my head and in no particular order, other than ALL BEING BETTER THAN JOE JOHNSON: 1) Kobe 2) D-Wade 3) Manu 4) Harden 5) Monta 6) Eric Gordon 7) JET 8) Ray Allen 9) (healthy) Brandon Roy JJ is a nice player, but how can you NOT be resentful as a fan when he's making more money than every single elite player in the NBA but doesn't have close to the same production?

3-whatever isn't as good as Joe. Manu is a 6th man. Harden and Ellis don't have an all around game and they play little defense. EJ and JT most def aren't as good as Joe. Joe is extremely underrated if you are saying he isn't a top 3 SG.

[Buzzard]

1986-1987 - Michael Jordan, John Paxson combined stats. ppg - 48.4 apg - 10.3 rpg - 6.9 spg - 3.7 team record - 40-42. 5th NBA central. first round 3-0 exit. 4 more years, a Pippen and a Grant and a Cartwright later they won it all. 2 guards never a championship makes. 2 guard offense, you need elite rebounding as there will be more shots missed.

That really depends on how good your guards shoot. JJ .444 career fg% , Deron .455 career fg% vs our PF Smoove .464 fg%. Blanket statements do not apply. Smoove's FG% is considerabley lower than the NBA average for a PF. Deron and JJ are both above average in this respect. Point, you need at least equal and possibly better rebounding with Smoove on your team than Deron and JJ.

[Joker]

I'll leave out Kobe, Wade, and James Harden since nobody seems to be arguing against me on those points. But for Manu, Eric Gordon, Monta, JET, Ray Allen, and the mythical healthy Brandon Roy (translation: Brandon Roy 2009-10 or earlier), let's chat. I pulled up baskball-reference.com and looked at FG%, 3P%, ORtg, DRtg, and Pts/36 min for each of these players for the 2011-12 season. Monta is the worst on the list, so I'll go ahead and take back what I said about him. Jason Terry is probably the next worst on this list, but he's not far from JJ. JJ is a little more productive on offense and scores about 2 more points per game, but they are almost identical shooting percentage wise and defense-wise. Think about that: Joe Johnson is comparable on defense to Jason Terry's old behind. Ray Allen is better than JJ across the board (including defense!) except JJ scores about 4 more points-per-36, so I'd even be willing to say JJ is a little better than a 36-year-old Ray Allen. If you look at Brandon Roy in 2009-10, he's clearly better than JJ. JJ has a slight edge on 3P% but otherwise it's no comparison. But that was an old Brandon Roy, so you can discount that if you want. Fine. Whoever it was that said he wouldn't trade JJ for Manu is a crazy person. Manu had the best FG% of anyone on the list (including Kobe, D-Wade, and Harden) and second-best 3P% behind only Ray Allen's career-high 45%. He's the most efficient, most productive SG on offense in the entire league. I wouldn't trade Kobe or D-Wade for him, but the list probably stops there. So that leaves us with one more. JJ is almost exactly the same player as.... Eric Gordon. JJ hits more 3s, Gordon scores more overall. Eric Gordon is a good, young player. He's about to get a max contract from Phoenix. But he's also 23 years old. That max contract isn't going to leave his team paying him $25mil a year while he starts collecting social security. So, I stand by my original points: 1) JJ is a pretty good player. 2) JJ is not a top 3 SG in the league. 3) JJ is insanely overpaid. That's all I'm saying.

Manu is not as good as Joe. Joe is a step above Manu. The rest or two to three steps behind Joe. No need to waste my time. Joe had a very good year this year. It's pointless to agrue v. it. Now that he wouldn't be doubled, he might even be a superstar. Oh well, Atlanta lost is usually another teams gain. Sheed, Diaw, Smitty, Deke, etc.

[Buzzard]

So would Joe. You think he wouldn't do much better in a role that fits him.

Even if the Nets do not get Howard, I look for JJ to be spectacular this season playing alongside Deron, Lopez, and Humphries.

[Joker]

Even if the Nets do not get Howard, I look for JJ to be spectacular this season playing alongside Deron, Lopez, and Humphries.

I agree. I think the Nets are a top 3 seed at the least in the East. Deron is a superstar. Joe should give them superstar performances and Lopez and Wallace are solid role players.

[ag82]

There is no healthy brandon roy. His knees are gone and literally will never be "healthy" again.

[bird_dirt]

how much sg will jj play up there? people kept talking about wishing he moved over to sf here because he wasn't quick enough anymore to keep up with other guards. i've read (posts mind you) that a deron/brooks/jj 1/2/3 would work best there. i would have to imagine he is more average of a sf than he was as a sg the past few seasons when he had his size and speed working for him at the 2.

[DatWerkk]

Manu is not as good as Joe. Joe is a step above Manu. The rest or two to three steps behind Joe. No need to waste my time. Joe had a very good year this year. It's pointless to agrue v. it. Now that he wouldn't be doubled, he might even be a superstar. Oh well, Atlanta lost is usually another teams gain. Sheed, Diaw, Smitty, Deke, etc.

This is a great argument! "My guy is better than your guy. He just is. No need for me to go into any detail or prove it with any facts. Just accept it!" I'm starting to think you don't actually watch basketball.

[Watchman]

Josh and Al are the easiest to stop Duo ever... that's why coaches are spitting in their margarita laughing... Josh will return to being a Diva on the three point line trying to make a shot from outside because the big mean men are inside. Tito will request a trade for Horford. We better pray that we trade for Howard.

Josh and Dwight would be THE easiest to stop duo ever. just foul them hard enough to make them miss their shot. They are probably the worst FT% combo conceivable to mankind. Edited July 7, 2012 by Watchman

[niremetal]

This is a great argument! "My guy is better than your guy. He just is. No need for me to go into any detail or prove it with any facts. Just accept it!" I'm starting to think you don't actually watch basketball.

Dude, you said you'd take Jason Terry over JJ. I don't agree with Joker on a heck of a lot, but I agree that it's not really worth discussing JJ's relative merits as a player with someone who says something that breathtakingly absurd. I mean, you said "a healthy Brandon Roy." With a caveat like that, we might as well throw in "young Michael Jordan." Or "resurrected George Yardley." Or "Michael Vick if he had been 5 inches taller and decided to focus on basketball instead of football." Or "Oprah Winfrey if she had testicles and was a foot taller, 50 pounds lighter, and as good at playing basketball as she is at making money." When you put a non-existent player on your list of "SGs who are better than JJ," the conversation has stopped being serious. Edited July 7, 2012 by niremetal

[ag82]

a healthy Tracy McGrady!

[thecampster]

Dude, you said you'd take Jason Terry over JJ. I don't agree with Joker on a heck of a lot, but I agree that it's not really worth discussing JJ's relative merits as a player with someone who says something that breathtakingly absurd. I mean, you said "a healthy Brandon Roy." With a caveat like that, we might as well throw in "young Michael Jordan." Or "resurrected George Yardley." Or "Michael Vick if he had been 5 inches taller and decided to focus on basketball instead of football." Or "Oprah Winfrey if she had testicles and was a foot taller, 50 pounds lighter, and as good at playing basketball as she is at making money."

The reality is this argument is at it's essence stupid. In the NBA, it is never player x vs player y. It's player x + what you can afford against his salary vs. player y and what you can afford against his salary. JJ + 3 million in Cap Space or Terry + 13 million in cap space. Now you ask the question, would you take JJ or Terry. It is a fairer argument. Give me JJ vs Terry with no salary limitations or realities and I of course take JJ. But it's never that simple and to even engage the argument is just as ridiculous. Goodrev05 - Let me show you how reasonable Niremetal can be when you frame the argument appropriately. Nire - Would you take JJ or same age Terry if taking Terry meant you could get flip Zaza into a 16 million dollar center, say Bynum, Gasol or similar? Notice the 2 qualifiers. Terry is the same age as JJ, Zaza becomes a star center to pair with Horf/Josh.

[Bamalawdawg]

Kobe, Wade, Harden, Gordon are the obvious ones for me. I woud take JJ in a heartbeat over Manu, Allen, Terry, and there is no such thing as a healthy Roy anymore. You might as well say "a 30 year old Michael Jordan."Monta is a tough one. Maybe a wash. Might lean towards JJ. JJ is 5-6 in the NBA at SG in my book. Probably 20-25 overall. Let's hope we replace him with a consensus top 20 next year or this was a horrible move.

[AHF]

He said in New York not the entire NBA lol

You are absolutely right! I thought someone was more excited about this combo than was warranted. I agree it is the best in NY for as far back as I can remember. NJ actually might have the next best with Kidd and Kittles.

[AHF]

Notice the 2 qualifiers. Terry is the same age as JJ, Zaza becomes a star center to pair with Horf/Josh.

The second qualifier makes it a non-legit question. The star center becomes far more valuable than both JJ and Terry put together and makes the comparison between the player irrelevant. Try JJ + Zaza versus Terry (same age) + Theo Ratliff or a prime Chris Kaman (guys who commanded much more than Zaza) or someone at that level and you are talking something more realistic. Landing a star center is the toughest thing for any NBA team.

[DatWerkk]

Dude, you said you'd take Jason Terry over JJ. I don't agree with Joker on a heck of a lot, but I agree that it's not really worth discussing JJ's relative merits as a player with someone who says something that breathtakingly absurd. I mean, you said "a healthy Brandon Roy." With a caveat like that, we might as well throw in "young Michael Jordan." Or "resurrected George Yardley." Or "Michael Vick if he had been 5 inches taller and decided to focus on basketball instead of football." Or "Oprah Winfrey if she had testicles and was a foot taller, 50 pounds lighter, and as good at playing basketball as she is at making money." When you put a non-existent player on your list of "SGs who are better than JJ," the conversation has stopped being serious.

Do I have to post 2,000 times before anybody bothers actually reading the content of my posts? Is that how it works here? =) Healthy Brandon Roy = Brandon Roy 2009-10, which could be what we see this year now that he's left the physical therapy disaster area known as the Portland Trailblazers AND undergone Kobe System knee treatments Jason Terry = slightly statistically inferior to JJ (but only slightly!) when normalizing for team pace and minutes played And to whoever said no to Manu Ginobili but maybe yes to Monta Ellis: why?!?

[ag82]

Do I have to post 2,000 times before anybody bothers actually reading the content of my posts? Is that how it works here? =) Healthy Brandon Roy = Brandon Roy 2009-10, which could be what we see this year now that he's left the physical therapy disaster area known as the Portland Trailblazers AND undergone Kobe System knee treatments

We all know what you mean by a healthy brandon roy. What you aren't getting is that his knees are never going to be back to where they were in his best season, not even close. He has had at least 6 surgeries. I'm not doctor, but the term "bone on bone" is used a lot when describing his knees (which seems to be a bad thing). I really like Roy, he is a local guy and went to UW and all, but he isn't going to ever be who he was. He can possibly be a great addition off the bench in limited minutes though. If you chose Roy over JJ at this point in their careers, you would be a crazy person. Edited July 7, 2012 by ag82

[thecampster]

The second qualifier makes it a non-legit question. The star center becomes far more valuable than both JJ and Terry put together and makes the comparison between the player irrelevant. Try JJ + Zaza versus Terry (same age) + Theo Ratliff or a prime Chris Kaman (guys who commanded much more than Zaza) or someone at that level and you are talking something more realistic. Landing a star center is the toughest thing for any NBA team.

See, there you go trying to go back and make it JJ vs Terry. That wasn't the question ever. JJ vs Jenkins or JJ vs Morrow. Those alone leave out the most important modifier and that is the 20 million dollars. The most important, hardest to get thing is a star center and when you tie up the money you need to do that, no JJ is that important.

[niremetal]

Do I have to post 2,000 times before anybody bothers actually reading the content of my posts? Is that how it works here? =) Healthy Brandon Roy = Brandon Roy 2009-10, which could be what we see this year now that he's left the physical therapy disaster area known as the Portland Trailblazers AND undergone Kobe System knee treatments Jason Terry = slightly statistically inferior to JJ (but only slightly!) when normalizing for team pace and minutes played

Dude, no one is putting words in your mouth. Someone said that JJ is a top 3 SG in the league. In response, you said this:

Top 3?? Off the top of my head and in no particular order, other than ALL BEING BETTER THAN JOE JOHNSON: 1) Kobe 2) D-Wade 3) Manu 4) Harden 5) Monta 6) Eric Gordon 7) JET 8) Ray Allen 9) (healthy) Brandon Roy

You clearly were listing players that you thought were, right now, better players than JJ. No one in the NBA world thinks that Jason Terry - who never made an All-Star Game even in his prime - is better than JJ. They aren't even in the same league. You justify it by giving JET handicaps for pace and minutes played. But I guess you're ignoring the fact that JJ is double-teamed every time he touches the ball whereas JET hasn't seen a double team in so long that he'd probably drop a deuce on the court if he saw one. Oh, and defense. Yeah, that half of the game. And about a billion other things that makes putting them in the same league absurd, and saying JET is better than JJ mindbogglingly laughable. Brandon Roy is not healthy. He will never be healthy again. He has no cartilage in his knees. It's bone on bone. Bringing a "healthy Brandon Roy" up as someone who is better than JJ is ridiculous because there will never, ever, ever be a healthy Brandon Roy unless someone invents a way to manufacture cartilage and implant it successfully in the human body. Which is about as likely to happen in the next year as someone inventing the transporters from Star Trek. No one's putting words in your mouth. Your post was absurd on its (lack of) merits, and it doesn't deserve to be taken seriously. Sorry. Edited July 8, 2012 by niremetal