JJ's best legacy as I see it.

[thecampster]

JJ didn't bring a title, his era is marked by playoff mediocrity and complaints from many fans but I think there may be a silver lining to JJ's tenure that needs to be addressed.When JJ arrived, we were going through a rebuilding period. We drafted a great deal of young talent and then spent the next several years filtering those draft picks into building blocks and trade worthy commodities. All the while, JJ mentored those players that would stay. He stayed calm, did his job and displayed professionalism.Zaza was brought in as a very young player during his time here, Smoove, Al, Teague were drafted. Everyone else has moved on. Those players learned to win in the NBA while JJ did what JJ does. It wasn't always pretty, but I think perhaps this is a natural progression. JJ served his purpose and helped groom 4 NBA pros who will hopefully now take the reigns in his absence.It is very common in today's NBA that players with loads of talent never find their way to the playoffs and make mistakes in diet, dedication and work ethic. They never realize that just making it to the NBA is just the beginning. But in Al, Josh you see two players that work on their body and game every off season. I think maybe this can be attributed to JJ's influence. If there was anything JJ did, is he worked in the off season.I believe JJ's time probably passed a season or two ago but hopefully, his calm steady presence will be felt after he's gone in the leadership provided by Al, Josh, Zaza and Jeff. If that is the case, then maybe the investment in JJ was a better deal than I give it credit for.

Edited August 1, 2012 by thecampster

[hawkman]

JJ made this franchise credible again.

[benhillboy]

His career still has a few more good years. He's in that group of guys like the whole Run TMC, Ron Harper, Stephen Jackson, Rolondo Blackmon, etc. Can lead a pretty good playoff team, but best suited in a secondary role in order to get a ring. Unfortunately, Joe was too greedy and needed a max, so he'll never taste what guys like Jackson and Harper have. I don't know the logistics of what the Suns put in his place and what have you, but they sure could've used him in that close conference finals against the Lakers a few years ago. Could've been the difference, but he wanted the money, and I'm not knocking him for it. Just shows you were his priorities were. When his current deal is done he's going to be completely immobile, and will probably look back and regret never reaching a Conference Final. Having "earned" a quarter billion dollars is a nice consolation I guess.

[macdaddy]

His career still has a few more good years. He's in that group of guys like the whole Run TMC, Ron Harper, Stephen Jackson, Rolondo Blackmon, etc. Can lead a pretty good playoff team, but best suited in a secondary role in order to get a ring. Unfortunately, Joe was too greedy and needed a max, so he'll never taste what guys like Jackson and Harper have. I don't know the logistics of what the Suns put in his place and what have you, but they sure could've used him in that close conference finals against the Lakers a few years ago. Could've been the difference, but he wanted the money, and I'm not knocking him for it. Just shows you were his priorities were. When his current deal is done he's going to be completely immobile, and will probably look back and regret never reaching a Conference Final. Having "earned" a quarter billion dollars is a nice consolation I guess.

When he left for Atlanta I think the motivation was more than money. I think he wanted to be the main guy on a team and knew he had to do it at that point in his career. That was really smart on his part. Getting a max offer from the Hawks later was just a no brainer. How do you walk from that. I think he believed in the team. Its not like they were struggling to make the playoffs. They were top 4 for in the east with an aging celtics. Without the Heat formation there wasn't anything else in the east to make you say well we'll never get to the finals.

[hawkman]

When he left for Atlanta I think the motivation was more than money. I think he wanted to be the main guy on a team and knew he had to do it at that point in his career. That was really smart on his part. Getting a max offer from the Hawks later was just a no brainer. How do you walk from that. I think he believed in the team. Its not like they were struggling to make the playoffs. They were top 4 for in the east with an aging celtics. Without the Heat formation there wasn't anything else in the east to make you say well we'll never get to the finals.

After the 25ppg 5rpg 5apg season, I thought we had a bonafide superstar on our hands. I know it was on a bad team, but it wasn't like he was just chucking out there as he had a really nice FG% to go with those stats. He was AWESOME against the Celtics('08) and against the Bulls('11 first game). I just wish he could've been that for the duration of his time here. But I can't be mad because it wasn't like he was taking plays off or anything. He played hard on both ends of the court. The guy had his faults(recognizing and reacting to the double team), but he just mostly went out and played winning basketball with no off the court or on the court drama. I've always respected that about him and I think the fans in general did too.

[Guest]

JJ made this franchise credible again.

I usually passed this off as "meh, I guess he did". The more I think about it, nope. Joe's first All-Star season we had 30 wins. It took him 3 years to get to the playoffs as a sub .500 team. What coincided with that? Oh, just the Joshes maturing and Horford coming along. Joe was top dog on those teams. But it wasn't as if Joe carried the team. We had a lot of players carry the load. Joe's legacy to me? A great player. Someone who never wanted to be a leader in the eyes of the media (with players it might be different, I don't know). An asshole to the fans. Two contracts that were overpaid in expectation at the time of their signings. And someone who really pumped me up in the 2008 Playoffs as well as other instances. I liked him, but it is hard to ignore the contract and how he responded to fans. I am also a Hawks fan before a fan of a particular player.

[hawkman]

I usually passed this off as "meh, I guess he did". The more I think about it, nope. Joe's first All-Star season we had 30 wins. It took him 3 years to get to the playoffs as a sub .500 team. What coincided with that? Oh, just the Joshes maturing and Horford coming along. Joe was top dog on those teams. But it wasn't as if Joe carried the team. We had a lot of players carry the load. Joe's legacy to me? A great player. Someone who never wanted to be a leader in the eyes of the media (with players it might be different, I don't know). An asshole to the fans. Two contracts that were overpaid in expectation at the time of their signings. And someone who really pumped me up in the 2008 Playoffs as well as other instances. I liked him, but it is hard to ignore the contract and how he responded to fans. I am also a Hawks fan before a fan of a particular player.

But he just made one comment referencing the fans that was COMPLETELY taken out of context.

[Guest]

But he just made one comment referencing the fans that was COMPLETELY taken out of context.

Yeah, I guess I forgot about those two years he was able to scrap enough money together to host "Santa-lanta". He done good to the fans.

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

JJ made this franchise credible again.

It's usually how it works... One guy builds the foundation and gets things rolling, then gets axed. It's the next guy that comes in, finishes it off, and completes the goal. Before JJ, the Hawks were horrible. Joe came in, made the team credible, helped us get the playoffs 5 straight times, and was an All-Star six times, but he hit his peak with the team and it will be the next guy that will get the team over the top... Let's just hope he shows up sooner than later and before this train derails...

[ATLscrubLove]

It's usually how it works... One guy builds the foundation and gets things rolling, then gets axed. It's the next guy that comes in, finishes it off, and completes the goal. Before JJ, the Hawks were horrible. Joe came in, made the team credible, helped us get the playoffs 5 straight times, and was an All-Star six times, but he hit his peak with the team and it will be the next guy that will get the team over the top... Let's just hope he shows up sooner than later and before this train derails...

The Hawks were still horrible for the next two years after Joe arrived. 05-07 were horrendous, obviously not as bad as 04 but were still bad. Let's also remember that the ONLY reason Joe made allstar teams was because people on the outside looking in though Joe was the "leader" of the team. Which he was up until last year, sure he averaged 18 points a game but there was no sings of leadership. Honestly I'd say that Horford is the player that turned the team around. We didn't even make it to the playoffs until his rookie year, you know why? Because he was/is the best player on the team.

[hawkman]

It's usually how it works... One guy builds the foundation and gets things rolling, then gets axed. It's the next guy that comes in, finishes it off, and completes the goal. Before JJ, the Hawks were horrible. Joe came in, made the team credible, helped us get the playoffs 5 straight times, and was an All-Star six times, but he hit his peak with the team and it will be the next guy that will get the team over the top... Let's just hope he shows up sooner than later and before this train derails...

Agreed. This is a sore spot for some, but this team needs the basketball version of Mike Vick(minus the obvious negatives of course) to get the team over the hump AND get the 'casual' fans to pack Philips. I honestly believe the Hawks have to hit a home run the next time they decide to bring a franchise cornerstone here. They have to find an 'elite' player who also connects with the fans. I won't say who that is, but right now the team is set up perfectly for a certain player who has been discussed to death on these forums.

[Diesel]

While the organization tethered him with the Josh Childress, Marvin WIlliams, and Shelden Williams...and of course the hothead Josh Smith... Joe racked up 6 allstar appearances and was the lead dog of a team that he took to the playoffs 6 times. For those who say meh.. just think.. what exactly did the Hawks org give Joe?1. A washed up Bibby?2. Ty Lue?3. Kenny Anderson and Kevin Willis?4. A washed up Antoine Walker and Al Harrington?Think about it...while other teams get a star player and try to get other star players to play with them, we tried our hardest to make it with a bunch that was young and had no star calibre in them.More of our lottery picks are out of the NBA now than in the NBA.We never explored the idea of getting a real C and a real PG?In my mind, the C and PG positions are the most crucial positions there are. Forwards are a dime a dozen.So at the end of the day, my feeling is that most fans don't appreciate Joe because they don't understand how bad of a situation he was put in here.

[Bawse]

JJ made this franchise credible again.

No he didn't. JJ did NOT do it alone.

[hawkman]

No he didn't. JJ did NOT do it alone.

Of course he didn't do it alone. It's a team game. But he was the 'tip of the spear' if you know what I mean.

[hawkman]

The Hawks were still horrible for the next two years after Joe arrived. 05-07 were horrendous, obviously not as bad as 04 but were still bad. Let's also remember that the ONLY reason Joe made allstar teams was because people on the outside looking in though Joe was the "leader" of the team. Which he was up until last year, sure he averaged 18 points a game but there was no sings of leadership. Honestly I'd say that Horford is the player that turned the team around. We didn't even make it to the playoffs until his rookie year, you know why? Because he was/is the best player on the team.

Actually, we sucked his Rookie year until we got Bibby here. The Hawks still weren't 'good' but they took a huge step forward after Bibby came aboard. Horf is good, but he has to show a lot more than what he's shown so far for him to be considered the best player on this team. He will get that opportunity next season.

[ATLscrubLove]

Actually, we sucked his Rookie year until we got Bibby here. The Hawks still weren't 'good' but they took a huge step forward after Bibby came aboard. Horf is good, but he has to show a lot more than what he's shown so far for him to be considered the best player on this team. He will get that opportunity next season.

He's shown more to me in 5 years than Joe did in 7.

[Guest]

For those who say meh.. just think.. what exactly did the Hawks org give Joe? 1. A washed up Bibby? 2. Ty Lue? 3. Kenny Anderson and Kevin Willis? 4. A washed up Antoine Walker and Al Harrington? Think about it... while other teams get a star player and try to get other star players to play with them, we tried our hardest to make it with a bunch that was young and had no star calibre in them.

So Joe was not a star. OK, I agree with that. I do not think any reasonable person disagrees with that. Are you just trying to stir the Hawksquawk again D? And Toine never played with Joe in Atlanta. I also do not think the Bibster was washed up when we traded for him, the next season could be a different story although Bibby has stated he did not play as hard to limit chance of injury in his contract season. I guess that seems counterintuitive to how people think a player should perform in a contract year.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

The Hawks were still horrible for the next two years after Joe arrived. 05-07 were horrendous, obviously not as bad as 04 but were still bad. Let's also remember that the ONLY reason Joe made allstar teams was because people on the outside looking in though Joe was the "leader" of the team. Which he was up until last year, sure he averaged 18 points a game but there was no sings of leadership. Honestly I'd say that Horford is the player that turned the team around. We didn't even make it to the playoffs until his rookie year, you know why? Because he was/is the best player on the team.

What "people"? You mean the NBA coaches who voted him in 5 times, and the Commissioners office who granted him a spot because of injury? Those "people"?

[Supporter]

What "people"? You mean the NBA coaches who voted him in 5 times, and the Commissioners office who granted him a spot because of injury? Those "people"?

I'm a JJ fan but let's be real, if it weren't for the lack of talent in the east shooting guard position Joe wouldn't have 6 all stars under his belt. Same with Horford. That doesn't make Joe less of a player, but the all star accolades have as much to do with Joe being in the east as it does him earning it through production.

[Diesel]

So Joe was not a star. OK, I agree with that. I do not think any reasonable person disagrees with that. Are you just trying to stir the Hawksquawk again D? And Toine never played with Joe in Atlanta. I also do not think the Bibster was washed up when we traded for him, the next season could be a different story although Bibby has stated he did not play as hard to limit chance of injury in his contract season. I guess that seems counterintuitive to how people think a player should perform in a contract year.

Oh Let me rephrase.. A non-defense playing Bibby whoose game was no different than Ty Lue. Isn't it funny that Joe continued to lead the team in assists even after Bibby got here? Bibby could still score but Bibby was not a scorer. Bibby was not a guy who created for others. Bibby was not a guy who could be counted on to carry the team. Bibby was a good shooter. So was Lue. However, those guys never gave what we needed in terms of somebody to help speed up the development of our young forwards. The best help that Joe had was a hungry Crawford. The Hungry Crawford could be that scoring match to Joe and in his first season here, he definitely took some of the defensive pressure off of Joe. Joe was just under-appreciated. It's good to see him being welcomed in Brooklyn.