Phoenix Sports Radio Personality says Suns Interest in Josh Smith is False.

[JohnnyCASH]

Josh's current rank at PF in these categories

Minutes: 4th

Points: 8th

Rebounds: 11th

Assists: tied 1st ( w/David Lee )

Steals: tied 3rd ( w/Paul Millsap )

Blocks: 3rd

This is the Josh that people see in the box score, and out on the court at times, that convinces people that he's an All-Star. Now for the rest of the categories

Turnovers: 1st . . ( 3.0 a game )

Field Goal %: 44th . . ( tied with Pau Gasol . . who is getting ripped for having a bad shooting season, and Big Baby Davis )

Free Throw %: 67th . . ( 1 spot below Reggie Evans )

3 Point %: 24th . . ( out of 42 PFs that have even attempted a 3 )

3 Point Att: tied 12th . . ( w/Rashard Lewis )

This is the Josh that drives people crazy, and drives his offensive rating as a player to the bottom of the barrel.

Best post i seen this Year

[Admin]

Josh's total shots from 16+ feet and percentage of shots under Woody ( regular season totals and percentages only )

2005: 162 shots . . . 26.9% .. ( playing SG and SF, some PF )

2006: 335 shots . . . 44.2% .. ( 1st year of JJ . . Al Harrington playing PF.. Josh playing a lot of SF )

2007: 394 shots . . . 39.7% .. ( Offensive rating career low - 99 . . after this season, Woody is determined to make Josh play more inside )

2008: 323 shots . . . 28.5% .. ( reduced 3 point att from 152 to 99, despite playing 9 more games )

2009: 249 shots . . . 29.3% ..

2010: 233 shots . . . 23.3% .. ( career high offensive rating - 109 . . . . Offensive rating increased in 3 straight years . 7 threes total.)

Woody isn't offerend a new contract . . . Drew is hired . . . then Josh's jumpers SKYROCKETED in Drew's "Pentagle ( aka - if you're open, shoot the ball ) System".

2011: 460 shots. . . . 44.2% .. ( shot almost 41% from 16 - 23 feet, which encourages him to shoot more jumpers next season )

2012: 499 shots . . . 45.3% .. ( career best statistical season, but Offensive rating is only 101. . shot 37% from 16 - 23 feet .. 26% from 3 point )

2013: 257 shots . . . 38.9% . . ( offensive rating - 94, a career low . . shooting 29% from 16 - 23 feet . . 29.5% from 3 point ).

Drew destroyed in one year ( really one month ) that Woody had taken 3 years to get under control.

It's not just Drew that was the same offseason where he hired that shooting coach for himself who said don't worry what anyone thinks about you, just do it. I will have to go and find that post from back then when I have time.

[Admin]

I think there was a quote from Drew that said that he "tolerated" Josh taking those shots, because he does so many other things from the team. So while he may not have liked him shooting jumpers, he did virtually nothing to reign him in either. That's why he was firing away the last 2 seasons.

I mean, damn . . he's taken over 1100 shots from 16+ feet in the last 2.5 years. He's on pace to shoot another 400+ shots from 16+ feet this year. That's 6 long jumpers a game from one of the worst long jumper shooters on Earth. LOL . . he could actually attempt almost 1400 regular season long jumpers in 3 years under Drew.

That's incredible.

I almost can't stand it when the coach doesn't reign in and has to tolerate an elite player. It happens so often around the league that I can barely stomach watching basketball.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

It's not just Drew that was the same offseason where he hired that shooting coach for himself who said don't worry what anyone thinks about you, just do it. I will have to go and find that post from back then when I have time.

OK . . I found it. This is from January 28th, 2011

http://blogs.ajc.com/hawks/2011/01/28/atlanta-hawks-larry-drew-uncut-josh-smiths-jumpers-jeff-teagues-minutes/

This is the quote that you may be remembering:

“[Ravin] patched the hole in Smith’s psyche with texts containing affirmations such as ‘You don’t need their approval, so stop looking in their direction.’”

Of course, most of that article is about Teague, but this was Larry's entire quote concerning Smith and his jumpers

CUNNINGHAM: Not sure who “they” are, but it just so happens L.D. was talking about this very thing on Tuesday (before Smoove’s misfires in the fourth quarter at Milwaukee). I asked him if he’s concerned that with both Josh and Al moving their games away from the basket the Hawks might become too reliant on jump shots:

DREW: I am not concerned about that. I know that is–whether people want to admit it or not–that is a strong point of our game is bigs that can pop out. The gray area is when they should do it, particularly Josh Smith. We have discussed it and during the course of a game we acknowledge it.

Sometimes he will look at me on bench [and ask], ‘Was that a good shot or a bad shot?’ I am honest with him: ‘No, it was not a good shot. We’ve got 16 seconds on the shot clock or it’s not within our offense or we’ve gone three or four trips down the floor and we haven’t had a good one and you take another jump shot. Sometimes we bump heads about it; sometimes we dap one another: ‘Coach, you are right, that is a bad shot.’ He is learning, and that is part of the growing pains as a coach you have to live with. Someone read a stat about his percentage on stand-still shooting, he ranks high in the league.

CUNNINGHAM: [NOTE: I'm not exactly sure what L.D. meant by that but, according to Synergy Sports Technology, Smoove ranks 158th with .95 points per possession on spot-ups while shooting 40.5 percent (75 of 185)]. . . . . . (( HAHA @ MC for blowing that last quote by Drew completely up ))

DREW: It’s something he has worked on. I can see his stroke has changed. It looks different than the past. I’ve always said if a guy works on his game, works on taking a shot, if he has the ability to make it and shows he can make it, you have got to let him shoot it. With him, his whole thing is when he shoots it. There are times I don’t want that shot, and he knows that. It’s something as a coach I have to keep working on him with it. He wants to know if it’s a good shot. Sometimes we will butt heads and sometimes we won’t.

I’ve got big men who can pop and make shots. There has to be some give and take, which they understand. We don’t want to be a predominantly jump-shooting team. We want to have the ability to post up, and we do post up a lot and go at matchups a lot. That is something that has been really good for us thus far this season. We do have a matchup advantage. I have to let him know: ‘When I put you against a smaller guy and go into the post, you can’t shoot a fadeaway. You have to put him in the basket with the ball.’

Its’ kind of a battle but it’s something we haven’t done in the past. We have basically gone through Joe. He gets double-teamed, it comes out and everybody shoots off that. We don’t do that anymore. Joe gets his isolations but we we also go at matchups where we have an advantage.’

***************

[Admin]

Yep that's pretty much how I remember it and that doesn't make me feel any better about it. I'm also not going to blame the coach when the elite superstar player doesn't understand when he should and shouldn't take a jumpshot. Maybe if Josh wasn't so fragile LD would be able to reign him in but with Josh's history he'd probably just sulk so they have to let their elite superstar do what he wants.

Thank you for taking the time to find that article though.

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

Of course the box scores doesn't measure how great a player is, but how many players are expected to do as much as Josh is expected to do for a team. Sure, Zach Randolph may go (which he hasn't all season) 20 & 10 on 8/13 shooting, 4/5 from the strike, but does anyone consider Z-Bo a number one option? Is Z-Bo asked to do as much as Josh is on both ends of the floor? How about other PF's like Millsap, West, etc.? As it is right now, Josh is our best player and our number one option. The offense runs through him and every time he is open for those long shots, there is a guy passing him the ball. Oh and the most 3pt shots Josh has attempted this season has been 6 which he made 2 and one of the misses was a last second shot (The oh-so-horrible Knicks game :rolleyes:). A lot of the shots he has been missing this year have been hook shots or layups in the paint. He misses maybe 2-3 long jumpers a game. Are guys really hating Smith because of 2-3 possessions a game when in turn Josh gives us an extra 2-3 possessions a game due to his defense... I agree every possession is valuable, but learn to take the good with the bad and that the grass isn't always greener on the other side... If Josh is done with Atlanta, then by all means trade him, but there are WAY better trades out there than to take a trade for Gortat just because fans are done with his long jumpers.

[Wretch]

Of course the box scores doesn't measure how great a player is, but how many players are expected to do as much as Josh is expected to do for a team. Sure, Zach Randolph may go (which he hasn't all season) 20 & 10 on 8/13 shooting, 4/5 from the strike, but does anyone consider Z-Bo a number one option? Is Z-Bo asked to do as much as Josh is on both ends of the floor? How about other PF's like Millsap, West, etc.? As it is right now, Josh is our best player and our number one option. The offense runs through him and every time he is open for those long shots, there is a guy passing him the ball. Oh and the most 3pt shots Josh has attempted this season has been 6 which he made 2 and one of the misses was a last second shot (The oh-so-horrible Knicks game ). A lot of the shots he has been missing this year have been hook shots or layups in the paint. He misses maybe 2-3 long jumpers a game. Are guys really hating Smith because of 2-3 possessions a game when in turn Josh gives us an extra 2-3 possessions a game due to his defense... I agree every possession is valuable, but learn to take the good with the bad and that the grass isn't always greener on the other side... If Josh is done with Atlanta, then by all means trade him, but there are WAY better trades out there than to take a trade for Gortat just because fans are done with his long jumpers.

First let me say that I don't want to trade Josh for Gortat. Also, you're not going to find a bigger Smoove fan that I have been since DAY ONE. But one thing that I can't let slide is how people trivialize the jump shots that he takes. This is a big deal, and here's why...

Baskeball is a game of runs. Say we got a 10 point lead with the ball. Chance to go up 12 or 13. Say we get a turnover from Teague. Not his fault right? But they sink a dunk on the other end, now it's an 8 point game. Now give Josh just ONE bad shot here...just one. Long rebound, goes the other way, Ray Allen for 3. Guess what?

What could have been a 13 point lead is now 5...and we're on THEIR court, with their fans making noise...you don't want to be in this position. It's going to happen more often than you think, at those critical moments (like the last shot of our 2013 post season), and it is KILLING the offense to let him play like this.

The above example is not all Josh's fault. Yes, Teague had a turnover and shares blame for the run. But guess what? Turnovers happen, but they're not intentional. Josh's shots are INTENTIONAL. He has complete control of whether or not to defer to another player and he consciously CHOOSES to throw away a possession. That's bad.

Moreover, you're taking shots away from better scorers. You want a 3 pointer fro Shaq or Kobe? You want Paul posted up and Blake at the point? Or do you want that reversed? Do you want to run a baseline screen to free up Korver? Teague driving to draw defense...and maybe even HIT JOSH on a lob? Do you want one of the best shooting players in the league to take a midrange?

Or do you want to throw away a posession on a jumpshot by Josh?

There's no excuse for these shots. Not 1 or 2. Not 3 or 4. To be honest, if it's not an assisted play, then Josh needs to be the 3rd or 4th option. He REALLY needs to focus on the other end of the court and working on his post game. Yes, he brings a lot of positives...but he is cancelling out those with IGNORANT and ARROGANT play. Championship teams win with players that focus on nothing but their positives. They don't go outside of their game.

Sorry, but those 2-3 jumpers needs to be ZERO.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Of course the box scores doesn't measure how great a player is, but how many players are expected to do as much as Josh is expected to do for a team. Sure, Zach Randolph may go (which he hasn't all season) 20 & 10 on 8/13 shooting, 4/5 from the strike, but does anyone consider Z-Bo a number one option? Is Z-Bo asked to do as much as Josh is on both ends of the floor?

Z-Bo scores a lot of those points by grabbing offensive rebounds. Smith is one of the worst offensive rebounding PFs in the league, partially because he doesn't box out, but also because he's nowhere around the rim when the shot goes up in the first place. And the reason for that, is because he's 20 feet from the basket waiting for the ball on a lot of occasions. Z-Bo plays his role as an offensive rebound demon who can score on you in the post, and with the occasional 15 foot jumper.

Zach has to go up against the same PFs in the league that Josh does. Check that, Z-Bo goes up against Western Conference PFs, who are far more talented than those in the East. ( Griffin, Duncan, Lee, Aldridge, Love, Ibaka, Millsap, Gasol, Faried ). It's Z-Bo's job to battle all of those guys on both ends, plus dominate the offensive and defensive boards . . plus score the basketball . . AND take crunch time shots for the Griz. So yeah, I'd say that Zach is called upon to do just as much, if not more than Josh Smith.

The problem with Smith is that he tries to do TOO MUCH. No one tells Josh to bring the ball up and play PG. No one tells Josh to take 3 pointers, especially at critical times. No one tells Josh to go for blocks, when he should be playing his man straight up. Nope . . Josh does that all on his own. That's why people constantly go at that dude.

I mean . . . Imagine Zach trying to push the ball up the court, when you have Mike Conley with his hands out, waiting on him to pass him the ball. Imagine Zach shooting a 3 with 15 seconds on the shot clock, when he can barely make a three. No. Zach plays WITHIN himself, which is all people who constantly criticize Josh Smith ask him to do.

As it is right now, Josh is our best player and our number one option. The offense runs through him and every time he is open for those long shots, there is a guy passing him the ball. Oh and the most 3pt shots Josh has attempted this season has been 6 which he made 2 and one of the misses was a last second shot (The oh-so-horrible Knicks game ).

A PF that has a 94 Offensive rating should not be the #1 option. Meanwhile, the PF/C who has a 110 Offensive rating, was sometimes the #4 option on the team, behind Josh, Lou Williams, and even Teague.

And you know this isn't just about Josh's 3 point shooting. It's about his long range jumpshooting as a whole . . which is horrendous. Yet, you want to somewhat give that a pass, because he's the #1 option? He shouldn't be taking those shots to begin with. On a team that desperately needs scoring around the rim, almost 40% of his shots come from 16 feet and out. All of those gunners on this team, and he's STILL shooting a plethora of shots from out there. Why?

He's not even shooting 30% on those shots, yet, he keeps shooting them, and people like you downplay that because he's the "#1 option". As much as people hated ISO JOE around here, JJ was NEVER that inefficient on his jumpers. People never groaned when JJ had a wide open 3, like they do with Josh.

A lot of the shots he has been missing this year have been hook shots or layups in the paint. He misses maybe 2-3 long jumpers a game. Are guys really hating Smith because of 2-3 possessions a game when in turn Josh gives us an extra 2-3 possessions a game due to his defense... I agree every possession is valuable, but learn to take the good with the bad and that the grass isn't always greener on the other side... If Josh is done with Atlanta, then by all means trade him, but there are WAY better trades out there than to take a trade for Gortat just because fans are done with his long jumpers.

If he averages 6 long jumpers a game, and only makes 30% of those shots this year, that means he's missing on average 4 jumpers a game. But even with that, Smith usually runs hot and cold. So on a hot game, he can make 3 - 6 FG on those long jumpers. On a cold game, he can go 1 - 6, and absolutely kill his team.

Then come the unforced turnovers in which he's simply trying to do too much. Of the 3 turnovers a game that he averages, probably about 50% of them shouldn't even happen, if he just play within himself.

Then you add the fact that he is struggling with his hook shot, and his post game. Matter of fact, here is what he shoots in different offensive types

Spot Up: 30.3% FG . . . which are wide open shots

Post Up: 38.9% FG . . . in the post vs PFs and some SFs

Isolation: 34.1% FG . . . facing up his man and trying to score

All of those are well below average FG% for that type of play. But that represents 55% of Josh's offensive play types.

What does he do well?

Cut: 63.8% FG

Transition: 75.3% FG

Both play types see him GOING TOWARD THE RIM. Not trying to create his own shot or shooting wide open jumpers. But even his effectiveness in transition plays are diminished, because he turns it over on almost 21% of his transition opportunities. Why? Because he tries to do too much by bringing the ball up the court, instead of giving it to Teague and filling the wing, so that Teague can throw it back to him for a dunk.

******************

So what might happen if the Hawks swapped Gortat for Smith?

- Teague gets to run the team more, especially in transition

- Horford becomes the #1 option, or at least gets more touches

- The guards will take some of the outside shots that Josh normally shot

- You get a guy in Gortat who becomes the Hawks best post player ( 52.3% FG on Post Ups )

- You get a guy in Gortat who will only take 9% of his shots from 16+ feet ( compared to almost 40% for Smith )

- You get a guy in Gortat who is just as good of a post defender as Josh ( and can block shots too )

Offensively, it's a big upgrade. Defensively, it may be a downgrade, but nowhere near what will happen on the other side.

Edited February 2, 2013 by northcyde

[Wretch]

Z-Bo scores a lot of those points by grabbing offensive rebounds. Smith is one of the worst offensive rebounding PFs in the league, partially because he doesn't box out, but also because he's nowhere around the rim when the shot goes up in the first place. And the reason for that, is because he's 20 feet from the basket waiting for the ball on a lot of occasions. Z-Bo plays his role as an offensive rebound demon who can score on you in the post, and with the occasional 15 foot jumper.

Zach has to go up against the same PFs in the league that Josh does. Check that, Z-Bo goes up against Western Conference PFs, who are far more talented than those in the East. ( Griffin, Duncan, Lee, Aldridge, Love, Ibaka, Millsap, Gasol, Faried ). It's Z-Bo's job to battle all of those guys on both ends, plus dominate the offensive and defensive boards . . plus score the basketball . . AND take crunch time shots for the Griz. So yeah, I'd say that Zach is called upon to do just as much, if not more than Josh Smith.

The problem with Smith is that he tries to do TOO MUCH. No one tells Josh to bring the ball up and play PG. No one tells Josh to take 3 pointers, especially at critical times. No one tells Josh to go for blocks, when he should be playing his man straight up. Nope . . Josh does that all on his own. That's why people constantly go at that dude.

I mean . . . Imagine Zach trying to push the ball up the court, when you have Mike Conley with his hands out, waiting on him to pass him the ball. Imagine Zach shooting a 3 with 15 seconds on the shot clock, when he can barely make a three. No. Zach plays WITHIN himself, which is all people who constantly criticize Josh Smith ask him to do.

A PF that has a 94 Offensive rating should not be the #1 option. Meanwhile, the PF/C who has a 110 Offensive rating, was sometimes the #4 option on the team, behind Josh, Lou Williams, and even Teague.

And you know this isn't just about Josh's 3 point shooting. It's about his long range jumpshooting as a whole . . which is horrendous. Yet, you want to somewhat give that a pass, because he's the #1 option? He shouldn't be taking those shots to begin with. On a team that desperately needs scoring around the rim, almost 40% of his shots come from 16 feet and out. All of those gunners on this team, and he's STILL shooting a plethora of shots from out there. Why?

He's not even shooting 30% on those shots, yet, he keeps shooting them, and people like you downplay that because he's the "#1 option". As much as people hated ISO JOE around here, JJ was NEVER that inefficient on his jumpers. People never groaned when JJ had a wide open 3, like they do with Josh.

If he averages 6 long jumpers a game, and only makes 30% of those shots this year, that means he's missing on average 4 jumpers a game. But even with that, Smith usually runs hot and cold. So on a hot game, he can make 3 - 6 FG on those long jumpers. On a cold game, he can go 1 - 6, and absolutely kill his team.

Then come the unforced turnovers in which he's simply trying to do too much. Of the 3 turnovers a game that he averages, probably about 50% of them shouldn't even happen, if he just play within himself.

Then you add the fact that he is struggling with his hook shot, and his post game. Matter of fact, here is what he shoots in different offensive types

Spot Up: 30.3% FG . . . which are wide open shots

Post Up: 38.9% FG . . . in the post vs PFs and some SFs

Isolation: 34.1% FG . . . facing up his man and trying to score

All of those are well below average FG% for that type of play. But that represents 55% of Josh's offensive play types.

What does he do well?

Cut: 63.8% FG

Transition: 75.3% FG

Both play types see him GOING TOWARD THE RIM. Not trying to create his own shot or shooting wide open jumpers. But even his effectiveness in transition plays are diminished, because he turns it over on almost 21% of his transition opportunities. Why? Because he tries to do too much by bringing the ball up the court, instead of giving it to Teague and filling the wing, so that Teague can throw it back to him for a dunk.

******************

So what might happen if the Hawks swapped Gortat for Smith?

- Teague gets to run the team more, especially in transition

- Horford becomes the #1 option, or at least gets more touches

- The guards will take some of the outside shots that Josh normally shot

- You get a guy in Gortat who becomes the Hawks best post player ( 52.3% FG on Post Ups )

- You get a guy in Gortat who will only take 9% of his shots from 16+ feet ( compared to almost 40% for Smith )

- You get a guy in Gortat who is just as good of a post defender as Josh ( and can block shots too )

Offensively, it's a big upgrade. Defensively, it may be a downgrade, but nowhere near what will happen on the other side.

[AHF]

Here are a few thoughts on these topics:

(1) Drew is an enabler for Josh.

(2) Josh is ultimately responsible for the bad shot selection. Neither Woody nor Drew ever laid down the hammer on Josh, but neither of them are actively encouraging those shots or designing plays for them either.

(3) This is why I said before this season that the Hawks had to fire Drew and get a new coach or had to trade Josh because bringing back Drew and Smith would repeat this brutal pattern and we wouldn't be able to justify Josh's desired salary based on his "happy jump shooting" play.

(4) Now we will never know if Josh would reform and reach his potential under a disciplinarian coach before we have to fish or cut bait with him.

(5) Josh is very talented and clearly a net asset to the team. Anyone suggesting that the team is better without him is being overly critical. The problem is that he is going to be paid like a foundational player when he is a highly talented and deeply flawed player right now and the team is likely to be better without him with his current play on offense at his new salary ala JJ.

Edited February 2, 2013 by AHF

[DJlaysitup]

... Maybe if Josh wasn't so fragile LD would be able to reign him in but with Josh's history he'd probably just sulk...

"Fragile" is a very PC way of putting it

[Guest Walter]

I find it comical that the Josh Smith fan club has to blame the head coach for allowing their elite superstar hero to take the highest number of the worst shot of all players. Sorry but elite players don't require their head coach to babysit them.Horford doesn't rely on weak side blocks as he's a superior positional defender compared to Josh. And yeah I wouldn't expect a PF-C to get as many steals as a SF-PF. But sure I will give you that Josh gets 1 more block and steal per game than Al. If that makes you feel good then great!

I am in the camp that the right coach could better harness some of JS's talents, but I'm also in the camp that JS with so many yrs experience in the NBA shouldn't have so much harnessing left to do and even if "harnessed" at this point/years of wear and tear isn't likely to measure up to any sort of "MAX". Also, that the "right coach" is rare, probably not coming here, and that JS isn't good enough to base your coaching decision solely on.

Time for both parties to move on. Hope we both end up happy. JS "paid" and/or on the right team for him (SA IMO) such that he feels appreciated for what he does do well if not improves and we get fair value if not more than such to start a retool or rebuild.

W

[drzachary]

I hereby officially veto any mention of Josh Smith ever 'reaching his potential.' 9 seasons, folks.

[coachx]

I hereby officially veto any mention of Josh Smith ever 'reaching his potential.' 9 seasons, folks.

Thank you.