Josh Smith haters don't want a championship...

[effjee14]

They just want to trade him. Not one trade rumored so far brings us remotely closer to winning a championship in the near or distant future. In order to compete for it all in the NBA, you must either have a top 10 player (maybe even 2) , or have a group of good veteran players that is one key signing away from putting them over the top, infused with energetic youth. We're probably not getting a top 10 player anytime soon, so our best chance for success is the second option. Unless there is no chance that we can sign josh in the off season for a reasonable price, say 5years 75-80 million, then there is no reason we should trade him. With al josh teague Lou and hopefully korver, we have a solid base of veterans. Jenkins seems to be progressing well, we probably do need another skilled young player, which we can get with some of our expiring contracts. Before I go on, let me say, nobody's beating the heat this year or next. The hawks best bet is to bet on the heat dissolving in 3 years, and when they do, we need to have the veteran team that is one move away from winning it all. Yes that means not really being considered a true threat for the next couple years. But if we move josh for the mess that has been rumored, we're not competing for it all anyway. This is what the Pistons did. This is what the 90's Knicks Pacers and Rockets did. They waited for their chance, and when Jordan retired, they went for it. The Knicks and pacers fell short, but had a realistic chance, but the rockets won back to back championships. This is the route we need to take, and keeping josh is a step in that direction. The hard part is finding that last piece at the right time, to put you over the top. That's where ferry should earn his money. Trading josh for parsons morris and a pick keeps us in the exact same place that we are in now, except with less talented players. Stay the course df. Continue building a championship caliber team, don't help another gm build his.

[Dragitoff]

They just want to trade him. Not one trade rumored so far brings us remotely closer to winning a championship in the near or distant future. In order to compete for it all in the NBA, you must either have a top 10 player (maybe even 2) , or have a group of good veteran players that is one key signing away from putting them over the top, infused with energetic youth. We're probably not getting a top 10 player anytime soon, so our best chance for success is the second option. Unless there is no chance that we can sign josh in the off season for a reasonable price, say 5years 75-80 million, then there is no reason we should trade him. With al josh teague Lou and hopefully korver, we have a solid base of veterans. Jenkins seems to be progressing well, we probably do need another skilled young player, which we can get with some of our expiring contracts. Before I go on, let me say, nobody's beating the heat this year or next. The hawks best bet is to bet on the heat dissolving in 3 years, and when they do, we need to have the veteran team that is one move away from winning it all. Yes that means not really being considered a true threat for the next couple years. But if we move josh for the mess that has been rumored, we're not competing for it all anyway. This is what the Pistons did. This is what the 90's Knicks Pacers and Rockets did. They waited for their chance, and when Jordan retired, they went for it. The Knicks and pacers fell short, but had a realistic chance, but the rockets won back to back championships. This is the route we need to take, and keeping josh is a step in that direction. The hard part is finding that last piece at the right time, to put you over the top. That's where ferry should earn his money. Trading josh for parsons morris and a pick keeps us in the exact same place that we are in now, except with less talented players. Stay the course df. Continue building a championship caliber team, don't help another gm build his.

What you are failing to realize is we're not going to get a top 10 player for Josh. We can only hope to trade Josh for solid contributors, draft picks, and/or players that fit a specific need. Josh is a quality player, no argument from anyone here. The problem is he is somewhat redundant to Al since they are really both PF's. Josh nor Al have a go-to post game that is needed in the half-court offense. Josh doesn't shoot well enough to be a full-time SF. Al sometimes gets bullied by the bigger, better Centers in the NBA, although there are fewer of them than there were years ago.

You were right in your assesment that you need top tier talent to win a championship in the NBA today. Dealing Josh for guys who will make a fraction of his requested salary that fits a need better and is making far less leaves you more capspace to spend on those superstar type players when they become available. Sure, they may never choose Atlanta, but that's a better risk than keeping Josh and trying to build around him, Horford, and Teague because with those 3 at Josh's demanded salary, you'd only have about $15 million to sign the rest of your team if you re-sign Teague and retain Lou and Jenkins (guaranteed next year). That doesn't leave you with the prospect of building a championship squad either. Assume you retain guys like Zaza and Korver who are in essense role players that every good team needs. They know their roles and don't try to do more than that, but do them very well, you'd cut that $15 million to about $5 and you've essentially got a starting lineup and a 6th man and Jenkins with Josh starting at SF and Zaza starting at C. Sorry, but that's not a championship squad.

People get hung up on sentimental reasons to keep a guy or not to keep him, but bottom line is it is a business at the end of the day. You have to put the best product on the floor with the money you have and staying within the salary confinements dictated by the NBA.

[Admin]

So keeping Josh Smith starting at the 17 million he wants and will probably get close to and increasing every year up to I think someone posted 23 million in year 5, aka more than 30% of our cap space, is the best course huh? No thank you, I'd rather let him walk and use that money to sign 2 good players under this new CBA cap friendly contracts.

[nathan2331]

I don't think that we will have to give Smith a Max contract for him to stay here. Just because he said he thinks he deserves one doesn't mean he won't settle for less. If we can get him for around 14 mil, bring in Howard and resign Korver and Zaza, that team could challenge the Heat in a playoff series

[Admin]

I don't think that we will have to give Smith a Max contract for him to stay here. Just because he said he thinks he deserves one doesn't mean he won't settle for less. If we can get him for around 14 mil, bring in Howard and resign Korver and Zaza, that team could challenge the Heat in a playoff series

A flat 14 million per without raises for 4-5 years is something I could get behind, but 14 million with raises is still too much for Josh. But Josh thinks he's a max player and I highly doubt he's going to settle for less unless there are no offers from the other teams with cap space that might think they can get he and Dwight together.

[BrandonJ0]

keepin em dont send us to the championship lol

[Wurider05]

I am sorry but just how many championships have we won with Josh again? You Josh lovers act like he is some superstar that we can't win without. I would go as far to say that he is overpaid now. Like I stated in other posts no one wants Josh to build around him. He is no leader. The teams that want him want him as the 3rd or 4th option. We can't turn into a respectable franchise by maxing out 2nd and 3rd tier guys like Josh Smith. his athletic ability will be on the wan and we will be stuck paying this guy 23 million dollars down the line.

[bruincoach]

He will walk unless we overpay. Overpay and we won't have a chance because there is no room to sign others. At 10-15 a year flat he is a great bargain. He can do a lot of things others can't I say trade him for at least 1 more draft pick and hope Houston makes the playoffsThat would be Teague/Lou/al/Jenkins/Scott/Ivan/3 1st round draft picks/ 2 stars and that gives us a chance. How good those first round picks are would determine just how good we really are

[Cwell]

*looks at title.....laughs*..... *sees guys has only 13 posts*...... *sees a big ass block of letter scribble* ..........yeah not reading that

[gsuteke]

Lol @ a "reasonable" contract for Josh Smith @ 5 yrs 80 millionThis thread sucks

[MaceCase]

Have people not learned from Joe? You don't overpay tertiary talent and mention championships.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

This must be one of Josh's uncles or cousins who made this post.

LOL @ people who NOW are content with being a 1st or 2nd round playoff team, but had an Eastern Conference Finals or bust attitude last year. All to keep Josh . . the most polarizing player in Atlanta since Mike Vick.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

The reasons why the Hawks will probably never get to championship level, is because they refuse to go ALL OUT to achieve that goal. And no matter what people say, going ALL OUT means diving into the Luxury Tax. Sometimes DEEP into the Luxury Tax. That's just the reality of the situation.

Almost all of the contenders for a NBA championship are tax paying teams. And the ones who aren't ( OKC and the Spurs ), either have top 10 players or a Hall of Fame coach leading them. And even the Spurs haven't been to the Finals since 2007, so despite their great regular season record, maybe they aren't true contenders either.

Last summer was the first time the Hawks had used their MLE on a player since the Speedy Claxton and Mo Evans signings. But when we were up against the wall of the Luxury Tax, they didn't even THINK about using it and being a taxpaying team for one year. And the one time they DID pay the tax ( last season ), it was because they kept Jerry Stackhouse around all season . . a guy who was no more than a great locker room presence.

Ferry needs to construct this team the right way and with the right compliment of players. At that point, it is then up to ownership to go ALL OUT ( at least for one year ) and try to give Ferry the ability to put that final piece to the puzzle together. If the Luxury Tax line scares a team so much, that they're willing to trade away good players or not sign a good player, then they're not serious about winning in the first place. They just want to win within the parameters of their "budget" . . . then cry when "big market" teams spend above and beyond to bring home a title.

[ag82]

Probably the worst thread I've ever read on any forum on any subject. Totally out of touch with reality.

[Admin]

Probably the worst thread I've ever read on any forum on any subject. Totally out of touch with reality.

Ha, this isn't even remotely close to the worst we've had on here, let alone any forum LOL.

[Wretch]

Another thing to keep in mind is that you need a foundation to build upon. Teams have no idea what kind of team they'll have until they find that one (or two) guys that they can shape a roster around. Those players are typically VERY special and can create offense for themselves (and others).

Josh Smith is not that guy and in many ways he is the OPPOSITE of that guy - Smoove creates offense for the other team. That is what scares me most actually, keeping him here and allowing him 5 more years of thinking he is something that he is not. Paying him like an All-Star to do that is secondary.

[bruincoach]

5 year 55 million I'm in5 year 60 million ok5 year 65 million probably5 year 70 Million I guess5 year 75 million no thanks

[Ruckus]

They just want to trade him. Not one trade rumored so far brings us remotely closer to winning a championship in the near or distant future. In order to compete for it all in the NBA, you must either have a top 10 player (maybe even 2) , or have a group of good veteran players that is one key signing away from putting them over the top, infused with energetic youth. We're probably not getting a top 10 player anytime soon, so our best chance for success is the second option. Unless there is no chance that we can sign josh in the off season for a reasonable price, say 5years 75-80 million, then there is no reason we should trade him. With al josh teague Lou and hopefully korver, we have a solid base of veterans. Jenkins seems to be progressing well, we probably do need another skilled young player, which we can get with some of our expiring contracts. Before I go on, let me say, nobody's beating the heat this year or next. The hawks best bet is to bet on the heat dissolving in 3 years, and when they do, we need to have the veteran team that is one move away from winning it all. Yes that means not really being considered a true threat for the next couple years. But if we move josh for the mess that has been rumored, we're not competing for it all anyway. This is what the Pistons did. This is what the 90's Knicks Pacers and Rockets did. They waited for their chance, and when Jordan retired, they went for it. The Knicks and pacers fell short, but had a realistic chance, but the rockets won back to back championships. This is the route we need to take, and keeping josh is a step in that direction. The hard part is finding that last piece at the right time, to put you over the top. That's where ferry should earn his money. Trading josh for parsons morris and a pick keeps us in the exact same place that we are in now, except with less talented players. Stay the course df. Continue building a championship caliber team, don't help another gm build his.

Calling BS on this one. You are just tossing bait to sharks trying to get a reaction. Either that or you are Smoove's agent in disguise.

[tbhawksfan]

"Smoove creates offense for the other team. "Best way to decribe Smith's negative impact.

[Dejay]

The reasons why the Hawks will probably never get to championship level, is because they refuse to go ALL OUT to achieve that goal. And no matter what people say, going ALL OUT means diving into the Luxury Tax. Sometimes DEEP into the Luxury Tax. That's just the reality of the situation. Almost all of the contenders for a NBA championship are tax paying teams. And the ones who aren't ( OKC and the Spurs ), either have top 10 players or a Hall of Fame coach leading them. And even the Spurs haven't been to the Finals since 2007, so despite their great regular season record, maybe they aren't true contenders either. Last summer was the first time the Hawks had used their MLE on a player since the Speedy Claxton and Mo Evans signings. But when we were up against the wall of the Luxury Tax, they didn't even THINK about using it and being a taxpaying team for one year. And the one time they DID pay the tax ( last season ), it was because they kept Jerry Stackhouse around all season . . a guy who was no more than a great locker room presence. Ferry needs to construct this team the right way and with the right compliment of players. At that point, it is then up to ownership to go ALL OUT ( at least for one year ) and try to give Ferry the ability to put that final piece to the puzzle together. If the Luxury Tax line scares a team so much, that they're willing to trade away good players or not sign a good player, then they're not serious about winning in the first place. They just want to win within the parameters of their "budget" . . . then cry when "big market" teams spend above and beyond to bring home a title.

This...Keeping Smith for the contract he's demanding will only return them to the same level they were when they gave JJ that monster deal a few years ago; capped out, with little/no shot at bringing in REAL players, let alone winning a title. In this league, you simply cannot win without star talent leading the way. Sure, you can win 45-50 games and every now and then get to the second round in the playoffs but that's the furthest you will ever go. Only the big boys get to stay on the train beyond that point; that's a fact (and please, don't give the 'Detroit model' as some example we could follow because we aren't them). You are either doing what it takes to earn a ticket to stay on the train or you are just a spectator. Maxing out Josh while staying away from the luxury tax sends a flaming hit neon sign where our team is... Edited February 17, 2013 by Dejay