Simmons: The Worst Contracts in the NBA(Or why DF is the man)

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Wake us up when Brooklyn gets that title, ok?

I could care less if Brooklyn gets a title. But Hawks fans can't say anything about them, because at least they're going for building the best possible franchise they can. And they're not using money as the excuse for not building it.

Edited March 13, 2013 by northcyde

[Watchman]

I could care less if Brooklyn gets a title. But Hawks fans can't say anything about them, because at least they're going for building the best possible franchise they can. And they're not using money as the excuse for not building it.

Looks like you'll have to buy the Hawks then, and make sure that we land in luxury tax land.

Oh, and how does overspending for mediocre talent equate to "building the best franchise they can"? Max for Joe, Deron and Lopez? $12 million for Humphries?

Edited March 13, 2013 by Watchman

[AHF]

Looks like you'll have to buy the Hawks then, and make sure that we land in luxury tax land.

Oh, and how does overspending for mediocre talent equate to "building the best franchise they can"? Max for Joe, Deron and Lopez? $12 million for Humphries?

Their commitment to first and second round playoff exits for the next 5-6 years is inspiring. I'll take the kind of commitment that the Houston Rockets have shown - a commitment to building with cost effective assets and exploring every opportunity to land that home run piece.

I also love anyone in this world thinking that Joe has positive trade value as of today. Like if NJ decided they wanted to go with a different SG that the Nets could end up with picks and useful (good contract) players. It took a desperate team to trade for Joe on the terms that we got for him. I don't think any team is that desperate anymore.

[Ruckus]

I could care less if Brooklyn gets a title. But Hawks fans can't say anything about them, because at least they're going for building the best possible franchise they can. And they're not using money as the excuse for not building it.

Sorry but, respectfully, I find this the dumbest outlook possible. Of course it matters how successful they are. Dollars spent don't equal success. Come on now.

[MaceCase]

Oh really?

http://nba.si.com/2012/12/04/pau-gasol-trade-talks-los-angeles-lakers-mitch-kupchak/

Like I said, there was possibly a time in which the Lakers would've made a snap decision to rid themselves of a player who was showing that he couldn't play in their system.

And they would of done it for a declining wing player owed more money? Question, did LA move Pau in a snap decision in December or was Joe Johnson the only possible deal that could of happened and could be offered for him? Did this not come out from SI also

http://tracking.si.com/2013/02/20/dwight-howard-pau-gasol-not-traded/

Oh really?

Pau is a free agent this year?

We're going to have 20+ million in cap space next year?

You sure about that boss?

Uhm, chief, for someone who has been complaining about cap space why exactly is it that you are now complaining that there isn't any? The Hawks will have close to 40 million in cap space in the summer sans some holds and etc by nearly every report so really, remove your head from your ass. The funny thing about cap space is that it isn't partitioned out for free agents only.....

if you have enough cap you can absorb any amount of of salary back in a trade also. The Hawks could literally trade a future 2nd rounder for Pau this summer without having to attach any other salary. I thought this would be obvious to you but meh, I guess that's why I'm the boss.

I said that the Griz weren't just going to GIVE Rudy Gay away, just to get under the tax. And they didn't. When you get a solid defensive SF like Tayshawn Prince, who can also knock down timely outside shots within that Grizzlies offense, and decent young players like Ed Davis and Austin Daye, you didn't just GIVE Gay away. They traded him for players that fit specifically within their system.

No, they gave him away for an over the hill, declining, overpaid role player, a prospect that will not be on their roster after the summer and Ed Davis. Why you are waxing poetic over those scrubs but not the defensive wing that can hit timely shots, defensive center, sharpshooting wing and a 1st rounder that we received for Joe I don't know but alas, you are the master of spinning things to fit your fantasies.

The problem with you is that not only do you not understand the mindset of desperate teams, you have no imagination whatsoever. I used Toronto as an example of what a desperate team looking to remake themselves, will do. The team could've very well been Sacramento or Detroit or even a playoff level team like Milwaukee, who may think that flipping Monta Ellis + filler for Joe Johnson would help them retain Brandon Jennings for the long haul . . and possibly make them a more balanced team overall.

You talk as if teams will never take chances in this league and that every contract in the world is untradeable.

And you have too much imagination and overstate the mindset of desperate teams. If they are so desperate why is it they aren't fulfilling your fantasies by doing or, better yet, done the things you claim they could do? Why is it I have an overwhelming list of bad deals being traded for other bad deals yet it's your belief that they are in fact all good deals except for the one that matters most to the Hawks?

Yep. I'm the fool. Oh wait . . .

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1492190-nba-rumors-charlotte-bobcats-a-perfect-fit-for-rudy-gay

http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2012/11/michael-jordan-says-bobcats-called-thunder-about-james-harden/

Yea, you are. Where is the 31 year old owed 89 million being mentioned?

Michael Jordan Q & A

Q: James Harden was just traded from the Oklahoma City Thunder to the Houston Rockets. Were the Bobcats ever in the mix to acquire him?

A: ‘We made a couple phone calls. That’s all I can say.’

Q: Do you still believe a major free agent would come to the Bobcats?

A: ‘If the (collective bargaining agreement) operates the way it’s supposed to, there will be very few teams with the right cap space (to pursue major free agents). Hopefully we can start picking them off that way, by maintaining our flexibility. Maybe we can provide them with the financial reward most players are starting to look for. Hoping the CBA will work that way for small-market teams – some parity.’”

( i.e. - the Bobcats will get desperate to bring anybody of star prowess to the squad, if they can't get what they want in free agency )

So I say the Wizards and Warriors had less of an interest in Harden because of his contract yet you retort with the Bobcats having an interest.

You also claim that teams are desperate after interjecting your own off-base interpretation of a direct quote from Jordan mentioning cap flexibility and free agency to mean he'll give up both for a 31 year old past his prime SG. I'm getting dizzy from all this spin.

Not mad at all. Just disappointed that all of you are drinking the Ferry kool-aid. Let that man bring in something significant FIRST, before acting like he knows what he's doing. Trading away players and shedding salary is the easy part. Building a winner is something entirely different. Let's see who that dude targets next summer and in 2014. And let's see who he can actually get.

Yet here you are drinking the Kool-aid on the Nets who were exactly where the Hawks are yet ended up with nothing but a mediocre Eastern treadmill. Go figure.

Edited March 13, 2013 by MaceCase

[Guest]

Oh really? http://nba.si.com/2012/12/04/pau-gasol-trade-talks-los-angeles-lakers-mitch-kupchak/ Like I said, there was possibly a time in which the Lakers would've made a snap decision to rid themselves of a player who was showing that he couldn't play in their system. Oh really? Pau is a free agent this year? We're going to have 20+ million in cap space next year? You sure about that boss? I said that the Griz weren't just going to GIVE Rudy Gay away, just to get under the tax. And they didn't. When you get a solid defensive SF like Tayshawn Prince, who can also knock down timely outside shots within that Grizzlies offense, and decent young players like Ed Davis and Austin Daye, you didn't just GIVE Gay away. They traded him for players that fit specifically within their system. The problem with you is that not only do you not understand the mindset of desperate teams, you have no imagination whatsoever. I used Toronto as an example of what a desperate team looking to remake themselves, will do. The team could've very well been Sacramento or Detroit or even a playoff level team like Milwaukee, who may think that flipping Monta Ellis + filler for Joe Johnson would help them retain Brandon Jennings for the long haul . . and possibly make them a more balanced team overall. You talk as if teams will never take chances in this league and that every contract in the world is untradeable. Yep. I'm the fool. Oh wait . . . http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1492190-nba-rumors-charlotte-bobcats-a-perfect-fit-for-rudy-gay http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2012/11/michael-jordan-says-bobcats-called-thunder-about-james-harden/ Michael Jordan Q & A Q: James Harden was just traded from the Oklahoma City Thunder to the Houston Rockets. Were the Bobcats ever in the mix to acquire him? A: We made a couple phone calls. Thats all I can say. Q: Do you still believe a major free agent would come to the Bobcats? A: If the (collective bargaining agreement) operates the way its supposed to, there will be very few teams with the right cap space (to pursue major free agents). Hopefully we can start picking them off that way, by maintaining our flexibility. Maybe we can provide them with the financial reward most players are starting to look for. Hoping the CBA will work that way for small-market teams some parity. ( i.e. - the Bobcats will get desperate to bring anybody of star prowess to the squad, if they can't get what they want in free agency ) Not mad at all. Just disappointed that all of you are drinking the Ferry kool-aid. Let that man bring in something significant FIRST, before acting like he knows what he's doing. Trading away players and shedding salary is the easy part. Building a winner is something entirely different. Let's see who that dude targets next summer and in 2014. And let's see who he can actually get.

Memphis got quality asserts because Gay is a young player with the potential to build around...Joe is not that anymore. Re: James Harden and Bobcats, young player to build around. This is what you missed in MJ's answer-flexibility to take on FREE AGENTS with new CBA. Not about being desperate to take on an aging star with a LONG HUGE contract to disrupt the flexibility.

[MaceCase]

I also love anyone in this world thinking that Joe has positive trade value as of today. Like if NJ decided they wanted to go with a different SG that the Nets could end up with picks and useful (good contract) players. It took a desperate team to trade for Joe on the terms that we got for him. I don't think any team is that desperate anymore.

[jhay610]

Nets are fun to watch but they are stuck with a team that is literally declining year to year and they have no exit strategy. They will be fun to watch in this year's playoffs, but who really sees them as a credible threat to come out of the East?

This thing will go really sour in two years' time.

[benhillboy]

I remeber in 09 when Jamal hit more free throws than Joe attempted in 488 less minutes and Joe shot almost every technical. That's all I needed to see from the dude, but I despised him long before that. Its a scathing indictment of how awful of an attacker he is and his flat out laziness and fear of contact on the offensive end. That and him leading us to the lottery before The Boss Era. If you check Nets boards, they discuss Marshonn's lack of minutes more than anything concerning Joe. Kyle's True Shooting is enough to make me forget Joe was even here. But I do commend Diesel and North for their unwavering love for the guy. It's sweet.

[benhillboy]

That expensive Nets future sure looks bright after being trounced at home by us doesn't it? But at least they're going for it! Spend that money at all costs! Especially on players we get rid of with awful contracts who cant run or pass well enough for our squad. Fools, their whole organization.

Edited March 18, 2013 by benhillboy

[Diesel]

It is a bit of a coincidence isn't it. I wouldn't dare say that seeing Joe and New Jersey getting hot and the hawks hitting a wall would make some hawks fans feel emboldened to spin the trades into a negative light would it? Nah, no one would do that.

We've been here the whole time hoping (just like you) that DF would get something at the trade deadline to make this capspace good. Instead, we got nothing and we stand at the mercy of Josh Smith. We didn't start the thread patting DF on the back??? You guys are like salesmen who see a customer with buyers remorse. Yeah, we traded and got capspace. However, a capspace trade isn't anything until you get something of value for that capspace. Telling me that we're just as good as we were when we had a core player injured for the season is something to be admired.. to me.. is laughable.

Stop scrounging for rocks in other to make it seem like you have gold in your bag. Let's just wait and see what becomes of this capspace. If DF does something good with it, I will help you build a monument. However, until DF does something good with it, there's nothing to celebrate. We have traded our best player for capspace before. History suggests that it's not always a good deal.

[Diesel]

Their commitment to first and second round playoff exits for the next 5-6 years is inspiring. I'll take the kind of commitment that the Houston Rockets have shown - a commitment to building with cost effective assets and exploring every opportunity to land that home run piece.

I also love anyone in this world thinking that Joe has positive trade value as of today. Like if NJ decided they wanted to go with a different SG that the Nets could end up with picks and useful (good contract) players. It took a desperate team to trade for Joe on the terms that we got for him. I don't think any team is that desperate anymore.

Well let see.

Allstar quality PG

Allstar quality C

Allstar quality SG

Yeah, they overpaid Humphries. And sure that Wallace trade was dumb. However, they have built a team that can never be taken out of the championship discussion. That team is built for the playoffs. NO Matter how much you may wish for a 1st or 2nd round exit...

They have something we dont. The right players in the right positions.

They have a real C with real low post moves. They have a real PG who can score at will and get his teammates scores. They have a real SG who can defend his position.

Compare that to us.

Is this the source of your contention against them. That fact that you look at them and you see complete skillsets and you look at us and see 4 wing players and an OG???

Edited March 18, 2013 by Diesel

[AHF]

Well let see.

Allstar quality PG

Allstar quality C

Allstar quality SG

Yeah, they overpaid Humphries. And sure that Wallace trade was dumb. However, they have built a team that can never be taken out of the championship discussion. That team is built for the playoffs. NO Matter how much you may wish for a 1st or 2nd round exit...

They have something we dont. The right players in the right positions.

They have a real C with real low post moves. They have a real PG who can score at will and get his teammates scores. They have a real SG who can defend his position.

Compare that to us.

Is this the source of your contention against them. That fact that you look at them and you see complete skillsets and you look at us and see 4 wing players and an OG???

First and foremost, Joe Johnson is not remotely close to an All-Star this season. Not remotely close so you can take him out of that All-Star quality description.

A center who can't rebound isn't very exciting. Lopez grabs 7.1 rpg and I'm supposed to be inspired? How many games does Lopez have this entire season with 12 or more rebounds? One. How many with more than 13 rebounds? None. Zaza beats that, as does Ivan Johnson even though they have played roughly the same number of minutes combined that Lopez plays. The guy can score but isn't an impact defender and he is a deficit rebounder. I'll take Horford for sure. Kudos for Lopez for making his first All-Star team as an injury fill-in but I am not buying in on him.

That leaves us with Deron Williams. Deron, of course, wasn't an All-Star this season and has struggled through one of his worst seasons. I do, however, have hope for him that he will return to legit All-Star status and as he started hitting some shots his productivity has really improved as well. He has fallen several pegs from the days when he was considered in the running for best PG in the league but at least he has the promise of being a desirable All-Star and contract in the years to come.

[Diesel]

First and foremost, Joe Johnson is not remotely close to an All-Star this season. Not remotely close so you can take him out of that All-Star quality description.

A center who can't rebound isn't very exciting. Lopez grabs 7.1 rpg and I'm supposed to be inspired? How many games does Lopez have this entire season with 12 or more rebounds? One. How many with more than 13 rebounds? None. Zaza beats that, as does Ivan Johnson even though they have played roughly the same number of minutes combined that Lopez plays. The guy can score but isn't an impact defender and he is a deficit rebounder. I'll take Horford for sure. Kudos for Lopez for making his first All-Star team as an injury fill-in but I am not buying in on him.

That leaves us with Deron Williams. Deron, of course, wasn't an All-Star this season and has struggled through one of his worst seasons. I do, however, have hope for him that he will return to legit All-Star status and as he started hitting some shots his productivity has really improved as well. He has fallen several pegs from the days when he was considered in the running for best PG in the league but at least he has the promise of being a desirable All-Star and contract in the years to come.

You can try to devalue what they have. However, the truth still remains, they have players that are far closer (skillswise) to championship quality than we do. Yeah, they flipped their coaching midseason and everybody is off. Yeah, both Joe and Deron has been laboring with injuries. But... BBIQ wise, they are good.

[Eddielives]

You can try to devalue what they have. However, the truth still remains, they have players that are far closer (skillswise) to championship quality than we do. Yeah, they flipped their coaching midseason and everybody is off. Yeah, both Joe and Deron has been laboring with injuries. But... BBIQ wise, they are good.

As has been stated numerous times, nobody is saying Ferry's job is over. This thread is about bad contracts, Joe's being ranked the worst and DF being able to unload that contract and marvins. How many times must it be said that we understand that further moves are all a part of the bigger plan but his moves thus far deserve credit in and of themselves. And yes, I do think that the capspace we have is more valuable than overpaid declining former all-stars and barely all-stars. I believe you overvalue players in this category. I still have hope for this capspace you keep scoffing at and the freedom to at least try and be better than mediocre. Sorry if that doesn't sit well with you as a Hawks fan but that's our scenario. No more bad contracts, a gm who sees the bigger picture and isn't satisfied with mediocrity. Deal with it or cash in your fan card. I'm sure Brooklyn has a fan board you can rise to the top of.

[AHF]

You can try to devalue what they have. However, the truth still remains, they have players that are far closer (skillswise) to championship quality than we do. Yeah, they flipped their coaching midseason and everybody is off. Yeah, both Joe and Deron has been laboring with injuries. But... BBIQ wise, they are good.

Saying what a player really is isn't devaluing them. That isn't incidental lip service to point out how badly Joe has played as his age and salary increase - that is the reason so many posters are excited to have him gone when you would have to pay more than Lebron costs to get that average play.

I am not being a revisionist or apologist on Lopez either. His pitiful rebounding is the reason I didn't want Lopez to come back to the Hawks in the proposed deal last year (tying up $12M or so per year in a big man who can't grab 8 rebounds per game....blech). I don't like injury prone big men who can't rebound. Lopez has exceeded my expectations for him this season and props to him for doing that but he still has put up 7.1 rpg even in this career best season. I don't value that nearly as highly as someone like Al Horford or Joakim Noah or a healthy Bynum or Howard, etc.

Deron hasn't been nearly the player in NJ that he was in Utah. That isn't "devaluing" him. That is his actual value. The good news for him is that his post-Utah play is still well above average and at times he still looks elite. (JJ can't make the same claim).

[benhillboy]

To Joes credit he's pulling all of his numbers up. .443 from the field and .369 from three, 3 free throw attempts is amazing for him, 4 and 4 with the dimes and boards, a steal, 2 turns and almost 18 points a game. Those are pretty much his numbers from last year aren't they? If he can keep these marks till the end of the season, his first year in The Brook was a success, much more than I thought he was capable of. Still, every sane person has him as the worst contract far and away. I wouldn't begin to compare him to that other guy: http://www.sbnation.com/2013/3/19/4122694/nba-contract-value-overpaid-joe-johnson-kobe-bryant

Edited March 19, 2013 by benhillboy