This is a fantastic article!

[Plainview1981]

Tell me, when was Duncan ever a selfish superstar? Was he a star? Yes. Gregg Popovich's philosophy has nothing to do with stars though. It has everything to do with the character and work ethic of the player. Tim Duncan is a player that has never been full of himself.

To this point, Dwight Howard is a player that has been full of himself. He will never win a championship until he realizes that he is part of a team and not just an individual player.

LeBron realized in Cleveland that he couldn't do it by himself.

Here's the thing though. San Antonio has had sustained success, not just a 2-3 year run. The reason is the philosophy they have in place. Tim Duncan was once an uber superstar. Today, he's just another player on that team. He's not the star he was 10 years ago.

But he is still one of the top players in the league... Just with reduced mins. On top of that, doing what they do is easier said than done. The Spurs winning actually goes back to the Robinson/Elliot days.

I'm more worried about getting the star players. I know the team has the 18th and 19th picks, and I understand the need for drafting and finding gems. Nobody understands how doing poorly in these area's can hurt a franchise more than us, but fans are not going to get excited about the team until we land one of those players. It's going to be hard to keep guys committed to and playing hard to this franchise if the fans do not care.

[Guest Walter]

The Spurs are still relying heavily on American talent. Duncan, Leonard, Green, Neal, Blair, Joseph, Bonner are all North American players vs Manu, Parker, Splitter, Diaw and De Colo as non North American players. And truthfully outside of Parker and Manu their great Euro scouting hasn't really found all that much talent thus far.

Before reading any further regarding the foreign "talent" SA has acquired, please consider the picks with which SA has worked with since Duncan (leonard not invluded as he was traded for). http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/draft.html This has to be the worst value of picks In any 10+ yr span ever recorded. I'd say getting two of the league's top 10 most efficient if not talented players during that time from overseas (excluding Duncan-see below) using the draft picks they did is astounding. ATL got less out of probably 7-8 lottery picks in that time (all domestic). Terry, Dermarr Johnson, Childress, MW, law, shellhead, Horford (Dominican but played hs ball in us)...ironically Pau Gasol was our best lottery pick in this time and he's foreign (and was traded). Also, Duncan is not American talent in that he was from the virgin islands. Splitter played in Europe since the age of 15. Thus, he was scouted in Europe. I would say he is also talented. Part of this is how you define "talent". If it is defined as efficiency or win shares then they would seem to get more talent overseas than at first glance. If it's a flashier notion of "talent" then less. It's hard to argue their strategy of scouting and drafting MORE international players (remember, they have cosistently drafted LATE in the first rd due to their prolonged success). It may be easier to argue any particular execution of this strategy. Dolfan, I feel sadly like your critique is aimed squarely at giannis, whom you seem to viscerally dislike. I, however, think this is a question of execution and not theory. Perhaps giannis or karasev or whomever are or are not the RIGHT foreign talent. Perhaps we cannot hope to replicate the SA strategy well enough and should not go to their lengths JUST YET. However, when you hear giannis interview you notice the humble coachability difference between him (and his work ethic) and many AAU-bred players. When you watch Karasev play you see a different type of (more efficient, fundamentally sound) basketball than in many AAU-bred 19 yr olds (Archie Goodwin for ex). It's refreshing to say the least. Great article, KB W

[Admin]

Walter, where is Duncan from? The United States Virgin Islands. And I said that Splitter was non North American. I was specific about that since KB was so specific about players being Euros, which would not include guys from Canada or the Virgin Islands. But even still Duncan became the basketball player he is from going to college in the US. If memory serves he grew up playing soccer. But yes the Sours have done a great job finding talent, that wasn't my point. The pint was that they have quite a bit if non Euro talent in their roster. And yes I have a white hot hate for Giannis as a Hawk :)

[Buzzard]

The Spurs are still relying heavily on American talent. Duncan, Leonard, Green, Neal, Blair, Joseph, Bonner are all North American players vs Manu, Parker, Splitter, Diaw and De Colo as non North American players. And truthfully outside of Parker and Manu their great Euro scouting hasn't really found all that much talent thus far.

It will take a minor miracle for any other country outside China and India to ever match Americas NBA talent pool. But if you take Europe as a whole they also have a chance one day to compete with us.

Three players who are getting 30 minutes or more a game on a championship caliber team cannot be ignored. GMs are being smarter now as International players are getting drafted later instead of reaching for the hype in Darko or Vesely. But they are becoming a lot more frequent number wise in both rounds.

[Guest]

Walter, where is Duncan from? The United States Virgin Islands. And I said that Splitter was non North American. I was specific about that since KB was so specific about players being Euros, which would not include guys from Canada or the Virgin Islands. But even still Duncan became the basketball player he is from going to college in the US. If memory serves he grew up playing soccer. But yes the Sours have done a great job finding talent, that wasn't my point. The pint was that they have quite a bit if non Euro talent in their roster. And yes I have a white hot hate for Giannis as a Hawk :)

KB should have said NON-U.S.A. Players who grew up without the influence of AAU at a young age. C'mon Dolf everyone knows 'Timmay' grew up swimming, not soccer until Hurricane Hugo destroyed the facility :-) on St Croix. Edited June 15, 2013 by JayBirdHawk

[Diesel]

Again, the point of the article is not that you don't need star players on your team. The point of the article is that to get the kind of player Pops wants on his team, he has chosen to go the international route because those players work harder and are more unselfish than American players.

I only use Dwight as an example of an American player because it is questionable whether he will buy into the team first concept. Can you see him reacting well to getting chewed out the way Pops does to Duncan? This is a player that is already responsible for one coach getting fired from his job and tried to get D'Antoni fired in LA.

That knife cuts both ways. It's not about where a player is from, it's about his maturity. Diaw threatened to go back to france if he didn't get what he wanted (twice). Somebody else did go back overseas because they were unhappy with their treatment in the NBA.

[Admin]

KB should have said NON-U.S.A. Players who grew up without the influence of AAU at a young age. C'mon Dolf everyone knows 'Timmay' grew up swimming, not soccer until Hurricane Hugo destroyed the facility :-) on St Croix.

Yeah that would have been different if he said that as it would have included Canada and the Latin Americas.

Was it swimming? I thought for sure he was a soccer player. But geez I feel sorry for anyone who tried competing with him in swimming as he would only need a couple of strokes to swim a 100 meters.

[Admin]

That knife cuts both ways. It's not about where a player is from, it's about his maturity. Diaw threatened to go back to france if he didn't get what he wanted (twice). Somebody else did go back overseas because they were unhappy with their treatment in the NBA.

Splitter played that game for quite a while and I think that Nene did as well. The Spurs have hit on some very good ones but the number of duds that come out of non-USA is still quite high even though everyone there grew up learning fundamental team basketball.

[Guest]

Yeah that would have been different if he said that as it would have included Canada and the Latin Americas. Was it swimming? I thought for sure he was a soccer player. But geez I feel sorry for anyone who tried competing with him in swimming as he would only need a couple of strokes to swim a 100 meters.

Swimming it was, yep.

[MaceCase]

Dol, you must be confusing Duncan with Dream. Dream was a soccer player and him along with Kobe credit that for their footwork.

[Admin]

Dol, you must be confusing Duncan with Dream. Dream was a soccer player and him along with Kobe credit that for their footwork.

Ha no I'm not confusing him with anyone as Dream was before I knew anything about NBA draft prospects. I just confused what sport he grew up playing. But yeah I do remember that both Kobe and Nash give credit to soccer for their footwork skills.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

People forget that the NBA went though this "draft International players" phase about 10 years ago. This isn't about drafting international players because they play harder and are supposedly more fundamentally sound. It's about drafting players who can actually play in the NBA . . . period.

For every Tony Parker, you have a Gordon Giricek and . For every Tiago Splitter you have a David Andersen.

The constant in San Antonio is Tim Duncan, a guy that even this season made 1st team All-NBA as a guy who can get you 18 points - 10 rebs - 3 asst - 3 blks - and shoot 50% FG . . . at age 36. And with Parker steadily improving as an elite scoring and distributing PG, the Spurs "system" works to perfection by allowing role players to simply play their role, and not do things they have no business doing.

[Buzzard]

People forget that the NBA went though this "draft International players" phase about 10 years ago. This isn't about drafting international players because they play harder and are supposedly more fundamentally sound. It's about drafting players who can actually play in the NBA . . . period.

True and just like golf, the more kids that play a game across the globe the greater the talent pool becomes. Which is why I mentioned China, India, and Europe as a whole.

India is only comparable in population. But Europe and China is starting to put both marketing money and building better facilities for basketball. We are talking millions of dollars and millions of kids playing organized basketball from a huge talent pool. They are only going to get better.

You call it a phase, I see something that is trending up.

Edited June 15, 2013 by Buzzard

[Guest Walter]

Walter, where is Duncan from? The United States Virgin Islands

There wasn't AAU in the islands until a fe yrs ago. It's more foreign in terms of basketball thar Great Britain. Really man. AAU. American Samoa doesn't count either. Duncan n was about as foreign to the us circuit as a player can get until he came to wake. From islander swimmer you insist he compares to an AAU ballerina. Get real.W

[DJlaysitup]

True and just like golf, the more kids that play a game across the globe the greater the talent pool becomes. Which is why I mentioned China, India, and Europe as a whole.

Sorry Buzz - but it isn't like golf at all - it's more like Olympic sprinting or playing cornerback in the NFL.

It's about athleticism. You want to win inthe NBA you need to get top level tall explosive jumping athletes...you want to win the spelling bee...go with the India-Americans.

Edited June 16, 2013 by DJlaysitup

[Guest Walter]

Splitter played that game for quite a while and I think that Nene did as well. The Spurs have hit on some very good ones but the number of duds that come out of non-USA is still quite high even though everyone there grew up learning fundamental team basketball.

The spurs have averaged the 37th pick in the draft using their top pick from any yr. They haven't even managed to average a first rder with their top pick since drafting Duncan. If they got one starter out of that it would be a miracle. ManuParkerScolaBarbosaMahinmiSplitterUdrihAll but mahinmi Have been starters for some period. Any other team in the league. If they drafted 37, they wouldn't have hit on this much. AND these are ONLY their international hits from these crappy picks. Frankly I might think I have a shot with this rag tag bunch of 2nders. Splitter/mahinmiScolaGinobliBarbosaParker/udrihAgainst our lottery picks over that time...HorfordShellheadMWDemarr/ChildressJT/Acie lawWhich team drafted more "Duds", the Spurs and their international-only 2nd rdrs or the hawks with their lottery picks?W Edited June 16, 2013 by Walter

[Buzzard]

Sorry Buzz - but it isn't like golf at all - it's more like Olympic sprinting or playing cornerback in the NFL.

It's about athleticism. You want to win inthe NBA you need to get top level tall explosive jumping athletes...you want to win the spelling bee...go with the India-Americans.

You are typical and don't get it. The larger the talent pool you draw from the better athletes you get. Stern is not as shortsighted as you, which is exactly why he has targeted China and their population base of 1,343,239,923 compared to our 313,847,465.

Not only is Stern seeing a tremendous talent pool, but with a few more stars like Yao and Lin, the advertising and marketing revenue is off the charts with potential.

Asia and the LPGA and PGA's growth in that market is a great example. Kids who might have focused on martial arts and Olympic sports as you spoke of, are focusing their talents on golf.

You sound just like Jim Brown and Jack Nicklaus. Two former players that are still stuck in the 60s.

Edited June 16, 2013 by Buzzard

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Some of you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to AAU Basketball. If anything, AAU is the ONLY time kids get a chance to truly see how good they are. In the one year of AAU ball I played in, I saw first hand how good I was ( or wasn't ).

I knew I wasn't the best PG in my city, so I came off the bench. And once we started playing the All-Star teams from around the South, it was CLEAR that maybe only 2 guys on our team could even dream of playing major college basketball. The rest of us would be delegated to JUCO and small college basketball.

I remember seeing Penny Hardaway for the first time. Dude was super skinny, but tall as hell. Back in the days before the internet, you'd only hear stories or read small press clippings about him. But once we saw him play the point, we were like WOW.

AAU isn't causing some of these kids to be bad fundamentally. Fundamentals is taught ( or supposed to be taught ) by your regular middle school and high school coaches who see you 6 - 9 months out of the year. And defensive principles are definitely taught by your high school coaches.

With AAU Basketball, you're basically practicing or playing on those teams for 2 months tops. And for the real special talents, they're simply going to week-long camps. And you have to pay to go to all of those camps, unless you're a special invite or have a sponsor. AAU is really the only way to measure yourself against the best of the best.

The main problem with AAU, is that it blows some of these kids heads up ( and the people around them ) into believing that they're ready for the pros right then. And the people around them may or may not be in their best interest when it comes to that advice.

Here is a clip from the 2001 ABCD Adidas Camp. Some of the guys featured are Sebastian Telfair, Lenny Cooke, and Lebron James. It also has a clip of Kobe talking to the kids. Kobe's advice is great. And even he was only about 22 at this time.

Coaches saw potential greatness in Lebron, despite him only being a Junior in high school as the time, mainly because of his basketball AND personal maturity.

Meanwhile, a guy like Lenny Cooke thought he was much better than what he really was, and he was an undisciplined person all around, seeing that he wasn't committed in keeping up his grades.

Telfair simply needed to go to college for at least one year, so a coach could teach him how to play defense and to build his strength up. He's been a journeyman backup PG at best.

Honestly, what the NBA needs to do, is adopt the same rule that MLB and NCAA baseball has. If you want to come out of high school and declare yourself eligible, that's fine. But if you go to college, you must stay for 3 years before becoming eligible for the NBA Draft. That may weed out a lot of guys who think they're ready for the pros, and entice them to go to college.

Or it may have the opposite effect, and have a lot of them going to the NDBL and try to develop their skills there, so they can receive free agent contracts in a year or two. For some guys, that would be stupid, seeing that if you become a big time college player, you'll more likely receive a much better contract, than floating around in the D-League for a few years.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Then you got all of the other stuff that goes behind the scenes between AAU and High School coaches. THIS may be much more of a problem, than the actual kids themselves.

[Buzzard]

Or it may have the opposite effect, and have a lot of them going to the NDBL and try to develop their skills there, so they can receive free agent contracts in a year or two. For some guys, that would be stupid, seeing that if you become a big time college player, you'll more likely receive a much better contract, than floating around in the D-League for a few years.

Some players would go to Europe or China and make 250,000 to 1,000,000 a year vs playing in college for three years. That is not chump change and it is a major difference maker more high school players are exploring.

Edited June 16, 2013 by Buzzard