Merged: Discussion on Tanking

[AHF]

I think there are legit arguments to be made against tanking as a way of life and so I completely respect the posters who don't want to do this. I don't think a lot of champions are out there who haven't been built around home-grown lottery talents who made good. (I include guys like Dirk in this definition even though he was a trade -- a trade of a higher lottery pick in Robert Tractor Trailer for a slightly lower lottery pick in Dirk -- because they are building through that home grown pick however it was acquired).

[NBASupes]

There's tanking and there is just being bad at basketball.

When you trade your best player for a prospect, that's generally what happens.

[Hairydawgz]

Dwight or CP3 should always be the goal. If that fails... Tank. I am a firm believer when you have no exciting product, poor attendances because people aren't wasting their money on terrible basketball, and you aren't built correctly because you lack the talent around your franchise player. Just blow it up.

. I'd be for that strategy. Wiggins anyone?

[NBASupes]

2014 (Wiggins, Parker, Randle, Harrison's and C-Stein)

2015 (Okafor, Towns, Jones, Winslow)

Great years to tank.

[AHF]

2014 (Wiggins, Parker, Randle, Harrison's and C-Stein)

2015 (Okafor, Towns, Jones, Winslow)

Great years to tank.

Tanking for the 2013 draft makes much less sense than tanking for the 2014 draft, IMO.

But I already had the debate on what should be our next step if we fail to land CP3/Dwight. My vote was for tanking over signing Al Jefferson, et al.

Edited June 17, 2013 by AHF

[NBASupes]

Tanking for the 2013 draft makes much less sense than tanking for the 2014 draft, IMO.

No brainer. I can't be mad at what Boston is doing. It's a great tanking formula.

[NBASupes]

If we don't land CP3 and Dwight

[Chinky_eyed_hawk]

QUICK - name a team that tanked, got the #1 pick that lead them to a Championship?I can only think of one:That's right - The soon to be 2012-2013 NBA Champs (I hope), The San Antonio Spurs.

I would say the only two teams that fit the "tank" description would only be the spurs for Timmy and then Cleveland in the LeBron draft.

On a side note... CHARLOTTE tanks every year and how well has that worked??

[NBASupes]

I would say the only two teams that fit the "tank" description would only be the spurs for Timmy and then Cleveland in the LeBron draft.

On a side note... CHARLOTTE tanks every year and how well has that worked??

It's worked out great for Charlotte. Their attendance is up and they are very hyped this time of the year for the last two years. This is when their season starts. The season sucked but they seen what type of competitor MKG is. They are going into the draft looking for impact players and they are a lock to suck again next year in a deep class. Charlotte is doing just fine.

[NBASupes]

I am telling you. It's a fact,

Contending>>>>>>>Tanking>>>>>In the middle. What do you have to look forward to when your players are vet. It's clear they aren't good enough, you are capped out or you can't sign nobody.

Look at Utah, they are closer to tanking but they have young players who can be All Star level studs, decent draft picks, and nice young core.

Heyward, Favors, and Kanter. They can resign Millsap and draft Larkin and they could have one of the best young teams in the NBA.

Look at the Bucks. They are in the middle. Jennings, Ellis, and Sanders are their core. They are a playoff team in the East but are they a good team or will they become a good team? No. This is the middle of the road. They have no shot of contending and no core.

Look at the Hawks. Smoove, Teague and Horford. Horford is the best player but he can't really create his own shot. Smoove is a good role player with great talent and terrible decision making skills, and Teague is a talented combo guard with little PG skills. This team is going no where. They are in the middle. Attendance is bad and no one likes watching them play. Al is out of position and they don't have a PG who can create offense for Al. Just a bad good team. Remember, Charles Barkley said that after our game v. Toronto who is another team that is in the middle but at least they are still close to tanking. Atlanta isn't and that's a problem.

[NBASupes]

We have an amazing team for stars to join but we have an average team if this what we are going into next year with alone. This team will get us stuck at 7th or 8th seed or worse, the dreaded 9th seed.

[yungsta]

I agree I rather ferry build for the future then go into mediocrity for the next 4 or 5 years. The teams that tank and never escape from lottery land are the teams that have terrible management, with terrible ownership, and have no kind of structure or game plan

Look at the kings. There management was a straight circus for years and didnt put any effort to make that team better but now they finally got their ownership under control and things are look bright for them.

Look at the Twolves they got it together and are actually a playoff team when healthy but b4 they had GMs like david kahn who had no idea what he was doing and was doing stuff like drafting 4 point guards in a single draft.

We finally have our ownership under control. We finally have a new focus on player development. We finally have a respectable GM. We have a coach who has been part of 1 of the most successful organizations for the past decade. This tanking era would be totally different than the BK era.

Look at teams like the magic or the cavs who have tanked the right way and have an extremely bright future with a bunch of young talented players.

Edited June 17, 2013 by yungsta

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

I called it. Plan B. Sign Monta, Iggy, S-Jax, Morrow to form: Dwight Howard & Friends.

You inspired me Game Time... lol

[yungsta]

This whole tanking analysis is flawed, people are going in reverse directions to figure out the benefits of tanking. The Wiz tanked for Kwame once and again for John Wall. How did that work out?"Oh but HF this time it is different, it is for Andrew Wiggins! Come on, he is the most famous wig since Ralph Wiggums!"Yeah right, I heard the same bullshit about Greg Oden (and Hasheem Thabeet). The tanking argument puts two random variables in play, 1) that you get the top pick (NOTE: 25% chance of that happening at the max) and 2) that said player actually turns out to be as expected. People who honestly believe in tanking need to apply this to their real life. Take all your savings and buy lottery tickets. Same concept.

the wizards management was a joke though. They surrounded john wall with knuckleheads and headcases like javale mcgee, nick young, and jordan crawford and have a horrible coach in randy wittman. Once they got rid of all the cancers the wizards were a much better team.

This year when john wall came back from injury he was playing like a star and living up to those number 1 pick expectations and the wizards were a .500 team and would of easily been a playoff team if john wall was in the line up for the full season.

[NBASupes]

the wizards management was a joke though. They surrounded john wall with knuckleheads and headcases like javale mcgee, nick young, and jordan crawford and have a horrible coach in randy wittman. Once they got rid of all the cancers the wizards were a much better team.

This year when john wall came back from injury he was playing like a star and living up to those number 1 pick expectations and the wizards were a .500 team and would of easily been a playoff team if john wall was in the line up for the full season.

On top of that they got a top 3 pick, they have two potential superstars and they have decent bigs. The Wiz are in a superior position compared to the Hawks.

Really the Hawks are in the best position in the NBA. LAL own D12 and it would be retarded to trade him to LAC regardless of what ESPN says. Atlanta has money for two max deals and have a top 15-20 player in Horf. They have draft picks and solid young role players but they are also in the worst position in sports. They strike out and they are locked in at 6th to 8th seed with 9th and 10th seed being a possiblity but being terrible is not one. So it's really tough to be honest. Extremely tough.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Leadership

[GameTime]

We need to stop this. We all know Dwight isn't coming to Atlanta without CP3. So getting mad because Ellis is mentioning Atlanta as a team of interest is just to get money. Not something that will ever be real. If Dwight is going anyone with CP3, it will not be here.

Noe we don't know Dwight. We need a Plan B just in case. Tank mode is a final option.

[Ruckus]

It's a good thing we have Leadership around to tell us what is right. Lord knows the trouble my lack of sensibility would get me into.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Ruckus

[MaceCase]

This whole tanking analysis is flawed, people are going in reverse directions to figure out the benefits of tanking. The Wiz tanked for Kwame once and again for John Wall. How did that work out?"Oh but HF this time it is different, it is for Andrew Wiggins! Come on, he is the most famous wig since Ralph Wiggums!"Yeah right, I heard the same bullshit about Greg Oden (and Hasheem Thabeet). The tanking argument puts two random variables in play, 1) that you get the top pick (NOTE: 25% chance of that happening at the max) and 2) that said player actually turns out to be as expected. People who honestly believe in tanking need to apply this to their real life. Take all your savings and buy lottery tickets. Same concept.

If I had a 25% chance of winning the lotto I'd invest my own and quite a few others' savings into it.I'm on AHF's side regardless in that a "successful" tank shouldn't just mean obtaining the 1st overall pick but fit within the broader definition of "improving one's overall draft position with the teenie chance of maybe, just maybe, landing top overall". It's hard to argue against the littany of greater talent that you can find in the top (bottom?) half of the lottery as opposed to later round picks so I admire a team like the Blazers who could have battled it out to the end for the novelty of a first round sweep against the Spurs while also forfeiting their pick but instead chose to lose 13 in a row so as to retain their pick which will likely become cheap depth on a team with limited salary options to improve in that area or better yet, be able to be flipped for an established veteran that would give them the prospect of a longer sustainable playoff run.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Do you even know what tanking is? They were a bad team because they traded all of their best players like Walker or Mercer for youth. All of the teams that tanked did that. Seattle traded Ray Allen for Green. Then sucked the next year and got Durant. Sucked again and landed Westbrook.

Hell yeah San Antonio tanked just like Phoenix Mercury tanked for Griner. That's a part of tanking. Losing on purpose for a greater cause.

That's tanking. Basically just not being good enough to win.

The Lakers didn't have to tank because Shaq left Orlando for LA and Kobe sabotage the draft to go to LA. I wish players would do that for us but that's never happening. In this league, tanking is a good thing because great talent is hard to find and everyone needs them to win.

Seatte did no such thing, because they DRAFTED Durant in 2007 and traded Allen in the SAME DRAFT in 2007, to get Green. Boston was the team trying to tank to get Oden, but only after it was obvious that they young team couldn't win when Pierce got hurt. Then they shut Pierce down for the last 10 - 15 or so games of the season.

LOL @ referencing Ron Mercer, when his trade only brought back Danny Fortson, Eric Washington, Eric Williams, and a 1st round pick that turned out to be Kedrick Brown. And the most Antoine Walker brought back to them, was a bunch of expiring contracts and a 1st round pick ( Delonte West ).

But Seattle definitely didn't tank to get Durant. Allen and Rashard Lewis fought injuries that year, before being shut down. And they traded them both AFTER they drafted Durant.

San Antonio had won 56 games in 1996. Robinson had a back injury that put him out for almost the first 2 months of the season. He plays in about 10 games, then breaks his foot. Sean Elliott was an injury waiting to happen, and definitely not a guy who could be the #1 option. 37 year old Nique had to be the "go to guy", along with Vernon Maxwell. But by your logic, that team "tanked", when they were simply "bad".

If you're going to try to chastise people, you at least need to get your facts straight, to back up your opinions.

LOL . . so is every non-playoff team "tanking"? Because by your definition, that's exactly what they're doing.

[DrReality]

I had more fun as a fan when we sucked then during the Joe years. Every year you look forward to drafting that player who can change your franchise. When you are in the middle. The draft is usually boring and 20 to 25 picks just aren't that good more than not. Contending>>>>>>>>Tanking>>>>>The Middle in the NBA.

That's funny. I can relate