Dennis Schröder is better right now than Jeff Teague

[KB21]

Huh? Holiday posted 17.7ppg, 4rebs and 8 assists for the season. All better numbers than Teague while being selected to the All-Star team. In what world is that just "average"? I'm not saying he's worlds better than Teague, but if Teague is better than average, so is he.

Teague has a higher TS%, higher eFG%, higher STL%, higher BLK%, and a lower USG. Teague is not only more efficient, he is quite a bit more efficient than Jrue is as a scorer. 17.7 PPG is not impressive when your TS% to get that is around 50%.

Just this past season, Teague's TS% was 0.543 compared to Jrue's 0.496. Their WS48 was 0.111 for Teague and 0.055 for Holiday.

You are giving me basic box score statistics that are volume dependent, and they mean absolutely nothing to me. That's like saying Carmelo Anthony is great because he scores 25 PPG, but it ignores the fact that he takes 25 shots to get that 25 PPG.

[KB21]

The guy they drafted, Michael Carter Williams, has a chance to be a really good point guard. I think the trade they made was more about tanking to get a potential star in 2014 than it was about moving Holiday. They knew there team as constructed was a middle of the pack team at best.

Yet, when you look at wins projections, Philly is currently projected to win 37 games, which is 3 more than they won last year with Holiday.

That trade wasn't about tanking. That trade was about taking an overvalued player and getting assets in return for it.

[Admin]

Yet, when you look at wins projections, Philly is currently projected to win 37 games, which is 3 more than they won last year with Holiday.

That trade wasn't about tanking. That trade was about taking an overvalued player and getting assets in return for it.

Are those the same projections that have the Knicks losing 21 more games than last year and the Pacers losing 13 more than last year as well as having MIlwaukee, Detroit, Washington, Philly and Charlotte finishing ahead of both of those playoff teams from last year?

[AHF]

I think Philly will end up well below that 37 win total you mentioned KB and they will certainly be rooting for NO to end up in the mid lottery.

Are those the same projections that have the Knicks losing 21 more games than last year and the Pacers losing 13 more than last year as well as having MIlwaukee, Detroit, Washington, Philly and Charlotte finishing ahead of both of those playoff teams from last year?

Yeah. There are very good reasons to question those numbers.

[NBASupes]

I played point guard in college many moons ago and it is probably the one position in basketball where you can see natural instincts the most in the game. You either have that vision, that knack of finding guys and putting the ball to them in a position where they can make a high percentage shot or you do not. Teague does not have that natural vision. Dennis does. Dennis is a pure pass first point and that kind of organic feel to the game is not coachable. You either have it or you do not.

I already said I want to see Dennis start so chalk me in as another that would rather move Teague and start Dennis than watch Dennis go through two years of sitting on a bench before having a chance to start simply because the other guy is making more money.

I played point guard in college many moons ago and it is probably the one position in basketball where you can see natural instincts the most in the game. You either have that vision, that knack of finding guys and putting the ball to them in a position where they can make a high percentage shot or you do not. Teague does not have that natural vision. Dennis does. Dennis is a pure pass first point and that kind of organic feel to the game is not coachable. You either have it or you do not.

I already said I want to see Dennis start so chalk me in as another that would rather move Teague and start Dennis than watch Dennis go through two years of sitting on a bench before having a chance to start simply because the other guy is making more money.

I find it odd that guys who played the game at a college level and played PG seems to have a liken to Dennis more than Jeff. I have a good friend who loved guys like J.R. Smith and Gerald Green many years ago and his favorite player was T-Mac and he knew the game very well but we would always get into disagreements and still do. Doesn't make him dumb at all, just has a different way of seeing things.

[NBASupes]

I don't think that is the case. Philly overpaid to resign him this past season, and one of the first moves their new GM makes is to get out from under that contract.

Holiday has hovered right around average as a player for his entire career to this point. He has not shown the year to year improvement that Jeff Teague has shown, and this is a player that started and played more as a rookie than Jeff. His inefficient shooting is what kills him.

I think this is a perfect case of a GM in Dell Demps who is tired of being in the lottery year after year that has overreacted to that fatigue, and a GM in Sam Hinkie who looks at the numbers and realizes that Jrue Holiday is not as good as he is portrayed by the media.

Jrue Holiday might be better than he is portrayed by the media ability wise. I think you love stats and never really watch teams outside of Miss St. and the Hawks. If you watched Jrue play, you would easily see him as someone better than most PG's in the NBA and is a top 10 PG in the NBA.

Edited July 18, 2013 by nbasupes40retired

[Guest Zone]

Philly is going to be absolutely terrible next season. That roster was designed to lose as many games as possible for the 2014 draft. They're blatantly tanking. No way are they going to be a better team than they were last year.

Edited July 18, 2013 by Zone

[Sothron]

I find it odd that guys who played the game at a college level and played PG seems to have a liken to Dennis more than Jeff. I have a good friend who loved guys like J.R. Smith and Gerald Green many years ago and his favorite player was T-Mac and he knew the game very well but we would always get into disagreements and still do. Doesn't make him dumb at all, just has a different way of seeing things.

Perhaps I am biased being a former collegiate point guard but I do have a feel for that position unlike any other in basketball. Some guys are natural points and some are combo guards forced to play point at the NBA level. Dennis is a pure point. I am shocked we got him where we did in the draft. Teague is a combo guard that is not a natural point. That is not to say Teague has no value or can not play the position but I'd rather have a natural fit starting.

[Admin]

Perhaps I am biased being a former collegiate point guard but I do have a feel for that position unlike any other in basketball. Some guys are natural points and some are combo guards forced to play point at the NBA level. Dennis is a pure point. I am shocked we got him where we did in the draft. Teague is a combo guard that is not a natural point. That is not to say Teague has no value or can not play the position but I'd rather have a natural fit starting.

We picked Dennis 4 picks higher than Rajon Rondo was selected. Those types of PGs are always undervalued in the NBA and combine that with the fact that he played overseas and he could have easily been taken 10 picks later. He definitely has the best pure PG instincts I've seen in a Hawks PG in very, very long time.

[NBASupes]

We picked Dennis 4 picks higher than Rajon Rondo was selected. Those types of PGs are always undervalued in the NBA and combine that with the fact that he played overseas and he could have easily been taken 10 picks later. He definitely has the best pure PG instincts I've seen in a Hawks PG in very, very long time.

The problem is Rondo struggled at times at UK under legendary Tubby Smith. Dennis just showed his ass everyday at Hoops Summit, was the best player on his team with Exum and Wiggins on his team and can play both sides of the court and can run an offense and is a dynamic on defense. Sorry, he could have been a top 3-5 pick, we should have never had a shot at him in this draft. Him and Olynyk should have been top 10 picks but Dennis really should have been a top 5 pick. Him and McCullum can really play, they have more than just potential. I understand a lot of teams have their PG for the future but damn man, this kid can really ball.

[Admin]

The problem is Rondo struggled at times at UK under legendary Tubby Smith. Dennis just showed his ass everyday at Hoops Summit, was the best player on his team with Exum and Wiggins on his team and can play both sides of the court and can run an offense and is a dynamic on defense. Sorry, he could have been a top 3-5 pick, we should have never had a shot at him in this draft. Him and Olynyk should have been top 10 picks but Dennis really should have been a top 5 pick. Him and McCullum can really play, they have more than just potential. I understand a lot of teams have their PG for the future but damn man, this kid can really ball.

A guy should have been a top 5 pick based on a week of play at the Nike Hoops Summit.

[NBASupes]

A guy should have been a top 5 pick based on a week of play at the Nike Hoops Summit.

He got to the Hoops Summit because of his play in Germany. He proved to people who called him up right due to his play at the Hoops Summit. It isn't that hard to read into what I was saying in the paragraph.

[DocWilkins]

[frankthetank966]

Teague should be traded. Overpaid and will not perform at that level.

[NineOhTheRino]

5* threadpin worthy

[hawkman]

Ok, this thread has gotten even stranger. So, a pg who can't finish at the rim OR shoot should've been a top 5 pick just because he can pass??? Again I ask you to look up Doug Gottlieb. This thread defies all reason.

[KB21]

Ok, this thread has gotten even stranger. So, a pg who can't finish at the rim OR shoot should've been a top 5 pick just because he can pass??? Again I ask you to look up Doug Gottlieb. This thread defies all reason.

So Doug Gottlieb had the athleticism that Dennis Schröder has?

[KB21]

Are those the same projections that have the Knicks losing 21 more games than last year and the Pacers losing 13 more than last year as well as having MIlwaukee, Detroit, Washington, Philly and Charlotte finishing ahead of both of those playoff teams from last year?

It's the projection from a person that on average projected the record of the entire NBA last year within 4-5 wins.

It's certainly a better indicator than saying Philadelphia is tanking simply because they traded a guy that accounted for all of 3.3 win shares last season. Of course, this is coming from the same fan base that felt the Hawks were tanking when they traded Joe Johnson even though I was telling you that Johnson did not have that much of an impact on the game.

[Diesel]

I played point guard in college many moons ago and it is probably the one position in basketball where you can see natural instincts the most in the game. You either have that vision, that knack of finding guys and putting the ball to them in a position where they can make a high percentage shot or you do not. Teague does not have that natural vision. Dennis does. Dennis is a pure pass first point and that kind of organic feel to the game is not coachable. You either have it or you do not.

I already said I want to see Dennis start so chalk me in as another that would rather move Teague and start Dennis than watch Dennis go through two years of sitting on a bench before having a chance to start simply because the other guy is making more money.

This league CHEWS UP AND SPITS out natural PG with no offense. Dennis is going to have to develop a finish or a shot because otherwise, he will be self checked and teams will cover the passing lanes and make him so ineffective. Don't believe? Name one pure PG who doesn't have an offensive game to go with it. Even Rondo as put up 40+ in games.

Right now, Dennis is a good passer... but with his lack of offense, he's a liability against real NBA players. He's a turnover waiting to happen against real NBA players. Tony Allen, Westbrook, and Paul are just waiting for him to hit the floor.

[Admin]

It's the projection from a person that on average projected the record of the entire NBA last year within 4-5 wins.

It's certainly a better indicator than saying Philadelphia is tanking simply because they traded a guy that accounted for all of 3.3 win shares last season. Of course, this is coming from the same fan base that felt the Hawks were tanking when they traded Joe Johnson even though I was telling you that Johnson did not have that much of an impact on the game.

I tell you what, would you like to make a bet based on his projections for the Knicks and Pacers combined? I guarantee he's not within 10 wins of where they end up. He gives them a combined nominal win total of 69.2 wins and I guarantee they at least win a combined 80 games. Interested in making a bet?