Woj: Danny Ferry's fatal mistake: He never owned his comments

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Good GM are not as easy to find as you think - bad ones are - so unless there are multiple proven GMs out there Ferry isnt goin anywhere- besides this idiot writing his pandering piece , anyone inside the NBA circles know the Ferry is the real deal and hes proven it from day 1. 

 

 Bottom line is this - the folks that are hating on Ferry the most simply dont like him .

Ferry is the real deal? He's not even a top 3 GM in this division, let alone being "the real deal".

[TheNorthCydeRises]

If it is the case that there are "so many qualified people", then that would drive down the salary of these guys. But Danny is one of the highest paid GMs in the league.

And Joe Johnson got the biggest contract in the league at one time ... by this same ownership group. If what Woj said was true about Ferry's deal, he negotiated a hell of a sweetheart deal.

- 6 yrs guaranteed

- 12 million total

- only had to answer to Levenson

And people wondered why some of the owners wanted him out? Ferry got that money not because he was a great GM in Cleveland. He got it strictly because he was affiliated with the Spurs, and could sell our feeble minded ownership on the dream of doing things like the Spurs ... without the Hall of Fame PF/C of course

[kerrypack]

I would also add that Klein said Ferry wanted to talk about this publicly from the jump, but the someone was advising him not to which Klein stated was bad advice. I think Ferry is taking more heat for this than deserved, but I believe this is the way the league wants it. They don't want any negative controversy around the Cavs which is where the heat should be since the report came from them.

a week of an orchestrated smear job through the ajc, of course he is taking more heat.  things would have been much better for everyone if he had been allowed to come out and be clear about the mistakes he had made.  i agree with supes that there are racial tensions that someone like gearon should not be stoking right now.  (but this is also getting boring.)

[Admin]

I could swear I've been saying all along that he wasn't allowed to address this earlier and done here scoffed at the notion. Not so silly sounding now is it?

[Guest]

I could swear I've been saying all along that he wasn't allowed to address this earlier and done here scoffed at the notion. Not so silly sounding now is it?

 

Oh, please Dolf you always sound silly. 

 

Seriously though, I think we all figured the lawyers advised silence.  We just all thought it was doing more harm than good.

[Guest]

Woj with another article hating on Duke: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba-needs-to-pull-stars-from-usa-basketball--which-is-showcasing-only-duke-s-coach-044717393.html

While I agree that Coach K is able to use this as a recruiting tool and that skews a lot of his actions, come on Woj. You've got a problem with Duke for some reason. Did he not get accepted to school there?

There's nothing wrong with disliking Duke, that is almost a telltale sign of having a pulse. But to write national columns with such callous hate towards them shows a bias in reporting. And that is where this becomes an issue.

 

Yeah, I posted this article on a GT-centric site (we welcome anti-Duke propaganda).  Woj may be smelling himself a bit lately.  He's become known as the source to trust regarding NBA news but it could be going to his head.  This column is a bit over the line IMO for the reasons you mention.  I don't necessarily think his premise is wrong.  However, it does come across as a Duke hate piece.  Now I gotta go wash my keyboard out with soap for typing something resembling a defense of Duke.

 

I recall Jerry Stackhouse on NBA radio citing similar concerns over K's USA bball dictatorship.  Biased as he is, he's not necessarily wrong either.  If you check the junior US teams they're full of prospects with Duke interest.  It's not a stretch to say K being the head of this entity is an unfair recruiting advantage.

[AHF]

There's nothing wrong with disliking Duke

 

Agree to agree on this one.

[OldTimeHawk]

so is the NBA investigating Cleveland ?? This is the origin of the scouting report , why isnt Silver speaking on t  that ongoing investigation instead of us rehashing  about  the racist words Ferry repeated ??  Just who is being protected  in Cleveland ??

[Guest]

so is the NBA investigating Cleveland ?? This is the origin of the scouting report , why isnt Silver speaking on t  that ongoing investigation instead of us rehashing  about  the racist words Ferry repeated ??  Just who is being protected  in Cleveland ??

 

I don't think anyone's rehashing the comments.  Most of us moved past that a while ago.

 

I also wonder aloud (in another thread) why Cleveland has remained relatively unscathed here.  Can we assume an investigation is ongoing?  That would explain the league's silence but not the relative silence from the journalistic community.

 

If an investigation isn't ongoing, that's weird to put it mildly.  I heard on the radio that the report was compiled by a Hawks employee based on intel from Cleveland (whatever that means).  Haven't seen that in print anywhere.  Could it be a method for adding another degree of separation for the Cavs?  Conspiracy theorists unite.

 

Lastly, I think you know who/what's being protected in Cleveland.  The NBA's next golden goose, that's who.  Can you imagine what was said about James via (supposed) internal/private memos?  I'm not even talking the potential racial stuff.  They're gonna be on national tv almost nightly.  The NBA doesn't want to have to address that all season.  At least with us they can kinda bury it.

[Guest]

Woj with another article hating on Duke: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba-needs-to-pull-stars-from-usa-basketball--which-is-showcasing-only-duke-s-coach-044717393.html

While I agree that Coach K is able to use this as a recruiting tool and that skews a lot of his actions, come on Woj. You've got a problem with Duke for some reason. Did he not get accepted to school there?

There's nothing wrong with disliking Duke, that is almost a telltale sign of having a pulse. But to write national columns with such callous hate towards them shows a bias in reporting. And that is where this becomes an issue.

Isn't  the under  19 USA squad run by college coaches. Isn't Billy Donovan one  of them? what is his  influence? So many things wrong with this Woj article.  They players have a choice if they want to play or not - they are not being forced

[Guest]

Woj with another article hating on Duke: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba-needs-to-pull-stars-from-usa-basketball--which-is-showcasing-only-duke-s-coach-044717393.html

While I agree that Coach K is able to use this as a recruiting tool and that skews a lot of his actions, come on Woj. You've got a problem with Duke for some reason. Did he not get accepted to school there?

There's nothing wrong with disliking Duke, that is almost a telltale sign of having a pulse. But to write national columns with such callous hate towards them shows a bias in reporting. And that is where this becomes an issue.

@hawksfanatic SBNation responds to Woj's article:

 

 

 the occasion of Team USA trouncing Serbia on its way to FIBA World Cup gold on Sunday, Yahoo!'s Adreian Wojnarowski wrote a strong, pointed column calling for the end of NBA veterans in international competition, with particularly sharp barbs reserved for Mike Krzyzewski. There are some spectacular lines in there and the take is well worth appreciating in its own right. You know how exciting it is to watch a fire burn? Reading Woj when he's in this mode is just like that.

But the argument itself has a few problems.

 

1. Who needs to do what?

Woj's column focuses on the need for the NBA to yank its vets from international duty, focusing specifically on Team USA crushing everyone in the world with what has been called a 'C' team. (I think that undersells this version of Team USA, which had a few NBA MVP candidates, a good number of All-Stars and great depth at point guard. I'd call it a 'B-minus' team at worst.)

One problem: who says the NBA should decide whether grown men can represent their countries in international competition? Currently, players have the right to play in FIBA events should they so choose. Many choose not to. Others can think of nothing they want more. Look at the competition for the final Team USA roster spots. Look at DeMarcus Cousins' multi-year campaign to make the team.

There's constant sentiment that just because NBA teams pay players a bunch of money, they hold the power on all levels of decision-making. Naw. Participating in FIBA is a player right. If NBA governors want to restrict that, it needs to be bargained with the union. Franchisees and league officials aren't the only adults at the table. The players have agency and rights and power, too.

If the argument is that the NBA ought to negotiate its way out of FIBA when the players' bargaining agreement is up, that's fine. But take it away? They can't and shouldn't do that.

2. Usefulness to whom?

I certainly wasn't aware that the purpose of the FIBA World Cup was to be useful to NBA franchisees and executives. But for some of the NBA franchisees and executives talking to Woj, everything is presented in the context of its usefulness of the very rich men who run the NBA board room and the suits they employ. Here's another example from the column.

First of all, the examples are all wrong here. Pau Gasol? What, we wouldn't want to grind him down while he exuberantly plays for Spain after finishing an oh-so-necessary 27-55 season with the Lakers? We're talking about Manu Ginobili, who just played a big role for a title team at age 36 and was rightfully kept from representing Argentina due to injury? Or Tony Parker, who also just won his fourth NBA title at age 32 but also sat out the World Cup to rest up because he's not a self-destructive dummy? And Yao Ming, whose entire basketball career seemed built for the 2008 Olympic Games in Beijing. "No more Yao Ming dragging a battered leg up and down the floor for China." What's Yao Ming have to say about that?

Something the anti-FIBA crew in NBA leadership ranks dismisses too easily is that there are motivations beyond money. Yao dragged his leg up and down the floor because nothing made him prouder than to wear his red P.R.O.C. jersey. (No offense to his redRockets jersey.) Parker, Manu and Pau, Dirk, Deng and Diaw, Jordan, Bird and Magic, LeBron, Kobe and Mason F. Plumlee all play in these tournaments not for money, not for fame, but for pride.

Try as you might, you can't put a cost-benefit analysis on that.

3. How is this related to Coach K?

Woj's column is really two-pronged: it makes a case against vets in international play on behalf of the NBA's anti-FIBA crew and it dismantles the Coach K aura of morality. I am in full support of knocking fake-virtuous college coaches down a peg and I'm no big fan of Krzyzewski.

But Woj's case that Coach K is unduly using his influence as the senior men's national team coach for recruiting purposes seems ... problematic.

Woj argues that an impromptu visit to the under-19 squad's training camp last summer gave Coach K a legal but unsavory advantage that helped him successfully recruit Jahlil Okafor and Justise Winslow. Woj does this while acknowledging that three current college coaches run the under-19 team. If a one-off visit landed Coach K perhaps the team's two best players, shouldn't a month-plus of contact have landed Billy Donovan more than just one prospect (guard Michael Frazier)?

Another quizzical piece of the Coach K critique: he handpicked Syracuse's Jim Boeheim -- another top recruiter -- to join him on the Team USA staff in 2006. If USA Basketball over the past decade was a master plot to hoard top recruits for Duke, you'd think Krzyzewski would not invite another perennial top-25 coach.

This also ignores the less savory college-coaches-in-FIBA stories out there. In the piece, Woj says Coach K deserves some of the heat John Calipari gets as a self-promoter. He neglects to mention the time that Calipari put a 16-year-old Karl Towns on the Dominican Republic senior men's national team. Towns, a top-10 prospect, committed to Kentucky five months later. Calipari no longer coaches the Dominican Republic, his task completed.

Compared to that, Coach K's little visit to Okafor and Winslow seems rather benign.

★★★

There is a way the NBA powers-that-are can kill veteran participation in FIBA tournaments: by appealing directly to FIBA to place age restrictions on certain tournaments, as FIFA does with the Olympic men's soccer tournament. But to the rest of the world, the FIBA World Cup and the regional tournaments like EuroBasket are the main events. FIBA hasn't really shown any interest in demurring to the NBA in the past and it seems unlikely it will be willing to do so now.

It will be interesting to see how this process plays out. It sure would be nice if those jockeying for reform behind the scenes let the players -- the guys whose bodies, time and energy are actually on the line -- have a say.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/9/15/6151651/3-problems-with-wojs-team-usa-coach-k-takedown

[tonegully]

I just hope we dont lose Danny Ferry man. He has been our best GM in the past decade and a half. Hopefully Ferry has already reached out to our own players and spoke to them.

[Diesel]

Or maybe 1&2 are timing and trust issues? Like he trusted his minion who got the report to either scrub it or get it to him earlier. I mean seriously go back and listen to the tape, it sure sounds like this is his first time reading it. You can say that's incompetency all you want but maybe he felt this meeting was BS and that it didn't really matter. Who expects their boss to record the call? Did he make a mistake by reading the bad stuff and paraphrasing, yes. But I'm assuming he did so out if trying to give all the owners by he full report on him.

I'm sure he already knew what he needed to know on Deng, which is why he didn't put more time into reading this report beforehand. So yeah if this was his first time reading this report, he absolutely would have been reacting to it on the fly.

 

I read it a different way.

 

Ferry hired Grant.  He knew Grant's work.  He trusted Grant and I'm sure that he and Grant talked alot about players, especially those who played for Cleveland.  However, I also believe that Ferry had to come to this teleconference with good reasons why not to go with certain guys.  I don't think somebody handed Ferry this report 2 minutes before the call and Ferry just read it off.  I think Ferry purposed an argument for why he didn't want to go after Melo and why he didn't want to go after Deng.

 

It could have just as easily been that Gearon Jr. wanted Deng or Melo and Ferry didn't want those guys and this is where the separation began.  Remember there were reports that we were after Deng.  However, I don't think Ferry was.  Maybe Gearon wanted Deng.  So when Ferry comes to stand up for his choice, he has to attack Deng's character.  Honestly, Deng would be a great defender and he would score from the SF position better than any of the guys we have now.  Only think left is injury and character.   So you introduce a scouting report section from your friend Chris Grant who was recently fired for trading for Deng.

 

Elitist.  I don't want superstars or pay allstar players... 

[Jody23]

I read it a different way.

Ferry hired Grant. He knew Grant's work. He trusted Grant and I'm sure that he and Grant talked alot about players, especially those who played for Cleveland. However, I also believe that Ferry had to come to this teleconference with good reasons why not to go with certain guys. I don't think somebody handed Ferry this report 2 minutes before the call and Ferry just read it off. I think Ferry purposed an argument for why he didn't want to go after Melo and why he didn't want to go after Deng.

It could have just as easily been that Gearon Jr. wanted Deng or Melo and Ferry didn't want those guys and this is where the separation began. Remember there were reports that we were after Deng. However, I don't think Ferry was. Maybe Gearon wanted Deng. So when Ferry comes to stand up for his choice, he has to attack Deng's character. Honestly, Deng would be a great defender and he would score from the SF position better than any of the guys we have now. Only think left is injury and character. So you introduce a scouting report section from your friend Chris Grant who was recently fired for trading for Deng.

Elitist. I don't want superstars or pay allstar players...

Isn't Gearon the one responsible for the 126 million deal for Joe Johnson? Yeah, he wasn't exactly great at personnel decisions now was he? And after all the reputable sources insisted that Ferry was after Deng, I don't buy that Gearon was the one pushing for him. Afterall it was Ferry who offered Deng the contract at his own choosing, not Gearon's which is where the REAL problem exists. I don't agree with everything Ferry's done as GM, but only releasing the negative part of what was on that tape is foul and speaks to the real agenda at play which stinks and as Woj stated, Gearon deserves to be out of the league for it. Edited September 15, 2014 by Jody23

[AHF]

I love it. Boeheim rushing to defend himself and his ACC ally by claiming there is no significant advantage in recruiting by access to the US elite talent pipeline but going out of his way to point out that Calipari had access to one recruit through the Dominican team.  LOL

 

If there is a concern over Calipari's situation, that concern is multiplied several times by access to the US talent.  I think Calipari would be very upfront about him getting an advantage with Towns because of his role and that he sees Coach K doing the same thing on a much bigger stage.  

 

Pick one side or the other.  Either none of you are getting an advantage or the access is an advantage and the value of that is measured by the talent on the other side of that door (in which case Coach K is sitting in the best position).  

 

It is obviously an advantage for all these guys who get involved.  That may be perfectly fine, though.  Just admit it is a perk of representing your country in basketball competitions.  I think we all know these guy view it as more than a "slight help."

Edited September 17, 2014 by AHF

[Admin]

I love it. Boeheim rushing to defend himself and his ACC ally by claiming there is no significant advantage in recruiting by access to the US elite talent pipeline but going out of his way to point out that Calipari had access to one recruit through the Dominican team. LOL

If there is a concern over Calipari's situation, that concern is multiplied several times by access to the US talent. I think Calipari would be very upfront about him getting an advantage with Towns because of his role and that he sees Coach K doing the same thing on a much bigger stage.

Pick one side or the other. Either none of you are getting an advantage or the access is an advantage and the value of that is measured by the talent on the other side of that door (in which case Coach K is sitting in the best position).

It is obviously an advantage for all these guys who get involved. That may be perfectly fine, though. Just admit it is a perk of representing your country in basketball competitions. I think we all know these guy view it as more than a "slight help."

And AHF rushing in to defend Kentucky. I wonder if you'll feel the same about Calipari in the next x years when it's discovered he's cheating again and leaves that team up the creek on his way out.

[DrReality]

And AHF rushing in to defend Kentucky. I wonder if you'll feel the same about Calipari in the next x years when it's discovered he's cheating again and leaves that team up the creek on his way out.

Ha............it will happen.  Sooner or later he's going to run out of places to escape to. 

[Guest]

And AHF rushing in to defend Kentucky. I wonder if you'll feel the same about Calipari in the next x years when it's discovered he's cheating again and leaves that team up the creek on his way out.

 

Who, whoa, whoa.  Vitale says Cal runs a clean program.  The fact that everywhere's he's left has faced sanctions of some kind is merely .. coincidence?  Just because people he hired decide to take it upon themselves and takes kids' tests, buy gold chains and *ahem* "ladies" of the night doesn't mean Cal's dirty.

 

Ohhhh, stop the witch hunt Dolf.  Everybody just hates him because he wins, baybee!!!

[Guest]

Coach Cal is smug. Hope he returns to the nba and gets roughed up a bit more..lol. Clean program, ohhhkaay..there is no such thing.

[AHF]

Cal has faced the same types of issues as Coach K.  Let's not pretend politics are divorced here.

 

Marcus Camby takes money.  It is undisputed that Cal and the school were unaware.  BOOOO.  Cal is dirty!!!!  SANCTION THEM!

 

Corey Maggette takes money.  It is undisputed that Coach K and the school were unaware. SWEEP!  SWEEEP!  SWEEEP IT UNDER THE RUG!!

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/maggette-admits-to-taking-payments/

 

The Rose issue was one where he his SAT scores were investigated and cleared by the NCAA prior to coming to Memphis but then the NCAA reversed its own decision later on and hit the team after the season was already over.  Duke has let people that cheated at Duke return to the team multiple times, like with Ricky Price and Greg Newton.

 

In all these cases, the NCAA found wrongdoing by the players but didn't blame or conclude that the coaches were in any way responsible.  

 

Let's face it.  Most of the UK hate for Duke stems from this game - out of jealosy for the great performance from Laettner, out of frustration that the underdogs couldn't quite pull it off, and out of anger that the refs failed to follow the rules and eject Laettner for intentionally stepping on a prone UK player.  Which of course he admits was on purpose but in typical Duke fashion he was able to avoid the consequences that are supposed to follow:

 

Edited September 18, 2014 by AHF