IF the Jazz end up in the lottery

[Plainview1981]

I'd do the insider deal and send Reef to Utah for 1st

round pick and Keon Clark. I'd then proceed to trade

Theo Ratliff.....

Reef probably really would be a star in Utah because

Sloan would get him over the hump. I think it would

serve as a good benefit to booth parties.

[macdaddy]

That would be great for Utah. It would leave us with no good players at all and praying that our pick would materialize down the road.

[Plainview1981]

materialize"

Yeah, kinda like the team is materializing now, right? I

suppose the team is only a step away from stardom right?

Everyone possible on this team should be traded. They are

losers. If this wasn't they'd win. All this coach whinning a

bunch of crud.

[Diesel]

Unless somebody great comes up to be drafted, this is probably the worse case scenerio. I mean, I applaud Hots for wanting to see change, but I wouldn't pick up Clark, whatever other filler you would need and a pick that will take years to mature for our best player.

We need to look into some:

1. JT trades... Hello Denver and LAC...

2. Jax/Nazr or Jax/Theo trades...

[Plainview1981]

Trading JT isnt enough. THis team doesn't have talent....

Theo

Nailon

Diaw

Dickau

Vaughn

Stephen Jackson

Henderson

Mohammad

None of those games are NBA starters. Theo is one of

the most limited players in the NBA now. He had some

offense in Philly, but that's clearly gone now.

[macdaddy]

Yeah that's a good point. Look at the Magic. Everyone on that team must REALLY suck. They should trade the whole team. Maybe we can get TMac for Glover.

[Diesel]

I agree with you.

There is no superstar... But there are good players and we need to find/manufacture some role players. Look at Utah. They are less talented than us but better coached. That's what we need.

Right now...

Rodney White/Barry sound pretty good for JT.

IF we follow that up with a trade like I mentioned earlier:

Jax/Nazr for an ending contract like Mercer..

We can play out this season...

It won't be pretty...

But maybe, we set out self up to either get a great draft pick and $$$ laying around for a FA.

WHat we would have is:

Ending contracts in :

Mercer, Glover, Barry/JV that equal about 11 Million.

We would still have Theo/Reef who both would have value on the market.

I believe we would have a top 5 pick out of this years draft.

We'd be able to spend about 7-8 Million and the MCE...

I would use the draft or Feb as an opportunity to trade Theo...

I would keep Reef/Diaw and Build from there.

[Plainview1981]

Yeah that's a good point. Look at the Magic. Everyone on that team must REALLY suck. They should trade the whole team. Maybe we can get TMac for Glover."

A person that tries to use the exception like it's the rule

most of the time has really nothing to say. The problem

is that the Magic have struggled for 1 year. The hawks

have sucked with this same"core" for 3 years and it's

honestly not even a talented core. JT/Reef/Theo couldn't

net the Hawks Tmac by himself.

[Plainview1981]

There is no superstar... But there are good players and we need to find/manufacture some role players. Look at Utah. They are less talented than us but better coached. That's what we need.

"

WRONG. Carlos Arryo is alot better player than JT is. JT

only posts numbers because he's allowed to do what he

wants on a structureless team. However, if you put JT

in a good system he doesn't have the fundamentals or

the overall skills to get the job done. After scoring(mainly

because he takes so many shots) his game dies out.

I wouldn't trade Kirlenko for Reef at this point. Kirlenko

is a well rounded player. Reef is lopsided.

Greg Ostertag is better than Theo this year.

[pathway23]

I think Kirilenko/filler for Reef is a trade in favor of Utah. Reef would thrive in Sloan's system and with a good PG in Carlos Arroyo.

[pathway23]

I think we should try to pry Kirilenko or Battier away in the offseason, I know Battier will be a free agent, what is the status of Kirilenko's contract? I think the new ownership is willing to go over the cap if they have to, I think JT and Theo are the weakness of our core and need to go. We need to pick up a C, a SG, and a SF in the offseason. What can we do via free agency, trades? I think we should build around Diaw/Reef. Efficiency ranking, which imo is the most important stat, taking into account offense as well as defense, has Reef ranked as the most efficient PF in the East and 2nd to Duncan in the NBA overall. Why not build around him? Diaw is the 15th most efficient rookie, (the efficiency ranking penalizes players for not enough PT, even Reef is hurt because he only plays 35 or 36 mpg)...so were Diaw to have the PT, he would easily be in the top 10. Not bad for pick #21 in the draft.

[TROUBLEMAN69]

In reply to:

---

I wouldn't trade Kirlenko for Reef at this point. Kirlenko

is a well rounded player. Reef is lopsided.

---

Kirilenko is not better than Reef. He is not a better scorer. He is not a better rebounder. He has potential, but he is not even close to Reef in offensive ability. He is probably a better a defender, but who isn't?

The only move that needs to be made with JT, is a move from the 1 to the 2. JT is a guy that can fill it up, but he is not a point guard at all. He is a very good shooter, and nobody can deny that. Again, and I've said it a million times, the Hawks need to do better in the draft. There has been talent in the past two drafts that the Hawks could have had, but they overpayed for veterans with draft picks. I like the Boris Diaw pick now, even though my first preference was Josh Howard. Now the Hawks need to follow it up next year with 2 good picks in the 1st round. Resigning Reef is a priority in 2005.

The Hawks will have plenty of money in 2005, with Henderson, Ratliff, and others coming off the books. Stephen Jackson and Glover will probably leave after this year. A lot of the trades that I see guys wishing for on this board, are simply a pipe dream. Nazr, Glover, Dickau, Jackson, Crawford will get the Hawks nothing more than a 2nd round pick and a garbage veteran. The Hawks will not receive a lottery pick for these guys, unless the Hawks were trading with themselves, since they are the only team dumb enough to pull off these types of deals. See, Lo Wright for 2 first round picks as an example.

TROUBLEMAN

[Playmaker0017]

Trouble,

I really think that Reef's defensive liability is overrated.

Down in the post Reef is a good defender.

On the perimeter Reef is average.

On team defense, Reef is also average.

As a whole, Reef is an average defender.

Kirlenko is not a very good defender - at best he is average.

Play.

[swolehawk2]

This is a funny post...because I have a feeling if JT Reef and Theo played for Sloan and Utah and Arryo AK and Ostertag played in ATL...this post would be totally opposite.

[Plainview1981]

If Reef was only half the player you think he is...Average?

Please....If he was average and Theo was the great defender

you guys make him out to be the Hawks wouldn't give

up 50PPG in the paint.

Andrei is better than Reef.

[Plainview1981]

This is a funny post...because I have a feeling if JT Reef and Theo played for Sloan and Utah and Arryo AK and Ostertag played in ATL...this post would be totally opposite."

I doubt it. JT isn't even a very talented player. All he does

is throw up wild shots. Remember when he was on the games two summers ago? Remember how lost he looked?

He doesn't look so good when he's not allowed to just

go throw up shots at will.

Theo has been on the decline for 2 years and he isn't

getting any younger.

[Playmaker0017]

Hots,

Have you even WATCHED Andrei? The guy is peaked out.

He is a skinny kid with an awful looking dribble. It won't be too long before he peaks and people learn more about him. I promise if Utah could get Reef with Andrei, they would do it.

Reef IS an average defender.

Theo IS an average defender and a superb shotblocker.

Part of the reason the Hawks give up so many paint points is due to the drive and kick or the drive and score of the guards. Guards get penetration, thus causing people to sag in and cover, leaving their men open.

Like I said, Reef is an AVERAGE defender in a poor system.

Put him in Utah with a system and coach like theirs ... and Reef looks better.

Remember, basketball is a TEAM game.

Play.

[TROUBLEMAN69]

In reply to:

---

Andrei is better than Reef.

---

Kirilenko's numbers are 16.1 pts 7.2 rebounds 3.1 assist 2.7 turnovers and he is shooting at 47% from the field.

Shareef's numbers are 20.7 pts 9.8 rebounds 2.4 assist 2.3 turnovers and he is shooting 51% from the field.

Kirilenko is not the better player right now. He has potential, but right now as of today, Shareef is a better player than Kirilenko. Just like, right now as of today, Shareef is still a better player than Gasol. Gasol is also a terrible one-on-one defender. He is cool at blocking a few shots,but he is abused when one on one.

TROUBLEMAN

[Playmaker0017]

Trouble,

You and I are really wasting our breath. (or typing prowess as the case may be)

In the world according to Hotlanta EVERYONE is better than Shareef. Anyone in the league could come to the Hawks and play PF and bring more than Shareef.

I am sure that his response will be something about defense, but have nothing to back this up. The beef on Reef's defense is old. It is the same beef people had when Reef would get doubled and not pass well.... All the complaints stemmed from his first couple years and everyone loves to parrot what they read in the old issues of "Sports Illustrated".

Play.

[Plainview1981]

Reef IS an average defender."

Wrong. SAR and Theo are both poor one on one defenders.

Reef is soft, weak, small, and has poor awarness. He'd

rather just move out of the way than take a charge.

Theo averages 3.9 fouls per game...Bad defensive player.

He hacks too much and gets eaten alive often. Sorry, those

3 blocks doesn't make up for the poor rebounding and for

the fact that almost every center in the league bullies him.

"Put him in Utah with a system and coach like theirs ... and Reef looks better"

Who doesn't? Shannon Anderson/Matt Harping etc...