A View from the Other Side

[curtmcgirt]

I've long made it a practice to read the paper/blogs of the teams we play to get their view on the Hawks. This is a GREAT article posted this morning from Minny.

 

http://www.canishoopus.com/2015/1/26/7904783/lessons-to-be-learned-in-atlanta

 

The Atlanta Hawks extended their winning streak to a team historical best 16 wins last night with an oddly competitive-yet-casual win over the Wolves, a game that Minnesota closed to single digits multiple times in the second half, yet never felt in jeopardy of not being a Hawks win.

 

 

— Steve McPherson (@steventurous) January 26, 2015

 

The Hawks put on a clinic: 56% shooting. 30 assists, only 10 turnovers, 10-28 from three. Atlanta, this season, isranked top 5 in both offense and defense from just about any angle you look at either. They're a team of unselfish, remarkably skilled, high IQ players who are enthusiastic, disciplined and meticulously well coached. They are deserving of their success.

 

But how exactly did they achieve their success? They aren't tanking and drafting at the top of the lottery: the last time the Hawks had a top 5 pick was 2007 (Al Horford). They aren't spending like a Yankee(s): if anything, they've been selling, getting out from under overpriced contracts like Joe Johnson and Josh Smith. And they aren't making superstars out of their current roster.

 

Or are they?

 

Something that is incredibly bothersome to me surrounding the Hawks is the idea that they're a cinderella team, relying on teamwork, hustle, and determination to make up for their lack of star players. That's not true. That's a headline narrative for the AP feed. Don't get me wrong...the Hawks definitely have chemistry. They definitely play 100% every night. But to imply they're basically a team of likable, overachieving mid-carders is vastly underselling their starters, to the point of it being borderline insulting.

 

One of the questions being asked around the league right now is, do the Hawks deserve to have four All Stars? The answers is a definitive yes.

 

And quite honestly, the question to begin with should be, do the Hawks have four players playing like All Stars? Because that frames the question more appropriately to what is being achieved in Atlanta. They aren't deserving of four All Stars because they're winning a ton. They're deserving of four All Stars because they have four players playing like All Stars.

 

 

I mean, that doesn't really require any long form exposition, does it? The Hawks' success makes perfect sense when you think of them as Blake Griffin, Klay Thompson, Damian Lillard and Marc Gasol. If you were to actually put those four players on the same team, the pundits would flip themselves trying to guess if they would sweep the playoffs or win more games than Jordan's Bulls. The only reason they aren't flipping now is they don't realize it.

 

But that's just it, isn't it? In reality, the Hawks basically do have that team. And they're riding a 16 game winning streak, while dominating the East standings in a way that makes you really wonder if anyone in their conference, at least, can truly compete with them.

 

And again, the Hawks haven't been throwing wins or dollars to get to this point. Quite the opposite, in fact. Al Horford was the #3 pick in his draft, sure, but he's making a modest (all things considered) $12 million/year, compared to Marc Gasol, who's making nearly $16 million/year. And then look: Jeff Teague was picked 19th in his draft (the infamous Year of the Flynn), and is signed for just $8 million/year, which is the same price tag of (among others) OJ Mayo and George Hill. Paul Millsap was picked 47th overall (I mean, I don't not like Craig Smith, but...) and is signed for just $9.5 million/year. Blake Griffin is signed for nearly twice that amount. And Kyle Korver.....Kyle Korver, man....

 

And the Millsap/Griffin dynamic is going to play out for Korver and Teague as well, as both Klay and Lillard are going to be getting max contract extensions when they're eligible.

 

So that's lesson number one for the Wolves: ignore the populous chatter and find players that will play a superstar game at a less-than-superstar price.

 

Contrary to what teams seem to believe, it is not that hard to do. Kyle Korver was basically sold for cash by three different teams (Philly, Utah, Chicago) before landing in Atlanta. Millsap was so 'unwanted' his deal with the Hawks was just a 2 year signing that happened well after the summer's big free agency rush, which was after the Jazz not only declined to offer him an extension, but renounced his rights to facilitate a trade with Golden State.

 

They key, of course, is to know what you're looking for. Paul Millsap is not the quote-unquote 'prototypical' power forward. He's undersized, was a second rounder, and spent most of his career up to that point as a backup. But if you do know what you're looking for, then you'd see Paul Millsap has been playing at the level he is this season basically since 2008. Atlanta saw that, and because they did and no one else didn't, they were able to sign him without competition for half the market price. With Korver, the Hawks were willing to pay a little more than market value to make sure he stayed because they knew that, in truth, Korver is worth nearly twice his market value. This isn't hunting for unicorns. These guys are out there.

 

This right now is unfortunately something the Wolves do not at all understand the concept of. The only bargain contract the Wolves have is Robbie Hummel. I guess you can count Shabazz Muhammad too, but I sort of consider that a happy accident, since Flip clearly wasn't going on his production at UCLA (we hope...). By contrast, the Hawks have only one real contract you could argue isn't a bargain contract: Thabo Sefolosha. We talk about this again and again on this site: paying full freight. Corey Brewer, Chase Budinger, Pekovic...the Wolves nickel and dime themselves to cap space death.

 

And as for 'knowing what to look for'....

 

 

Lesson number two is another one we talk about all the time: kill it in the draft. Like Bazz, Jeff Teague is more of a happy accident than anything else. But three of their key contributors off the bench were smart pick/pickup guys. The Hawks drafted Mike Scott 43rd overall two years ago, Dennis Schröder 17th overall last year, and picked up Pero Antić in free agency after he went undrafted.

 

This is also something the Wolves struggle to grasp. Jonny Flynn instead of Steph Curry. Wes Johnson instead of Boogie or Paul George. The Wolves have a thoroughly depressing roulette of guys that were traded for mediocrity or sold for cash in their recent history: Ty Lawson, Chandler Parsons, Nikola Mirotic, and Donatas Motijunas, just to name a few. And while it's gotten better with Flip (Dieng is a quality pick, and Glenn Robinson III I think will prove to be as well) there's still that struggle with 'knowing what to look for'...Zach LaVine being the best example this year.

 

This also ties into salary management as well. Another thing we talk about often here is the ideal method for building a team in a salary capped league, which is to get awesome players on dirt cheap contracts, and the best way to do that is the draft because everyone is locked into a fixed salary scale, regardless of how good they are. Dennis Schröder this year has improved himself into three times the player Barea was for us, but the rookie salary scale means Atlanta pays him a third of what we paid JJ. Draft picks. Full freight. Knowing what to look for. It all ties together.

 

And the third lesson for the Wolves here is one that....well, let's politely call it controversial right now: coaching really freakin' matters in the NBA.

 

Along with getting Paul Millsap in free agency and Al Horford back from the injured list, the Hawks also got Mike Budenholzer...he of the Popovich line...as their head coach. And that has proven to be as important as anything, because the player who has improved the most dramatically and is really driving the Hawks' success this year is the guy they always had, Jeff Teague.

 

The ability for the right coach to dramatically improve the right player is a proven commodity, and the evidence of this is everywhere just in the last few years. Look at LaMarcus Aldridge before and after Terry Stotts; Gerald Green before and after Jeff Hornacek; Klay Thompson before and after Steve Kerr. The before and after Budenholzer effect on Jeff Teague is just as big. This season, buying totally into what can pretty accurately be described as the Spurs Way, Teague has skyrocketed his game into the upper echelon of not just point guards, but players in general.

 

NBA rosters are puzzles, and it's up to the coach to fit the pieces together. You figure out what kind of players you have, then build a system to maximize their possibilities for success.

 

I won't do a dissertation on Flip Saunders here, since we could debate for years about his merits. But I will briefly just point out one aspect

 

 

The Wolves are last in the NBA in 3pt attempts per game at just 15...less than half of the league leading Houston Rockets...and it's mainly because, as exemplified here, Flip will set up the entire offense inside the three point line. But then what's truly vexing is he'll talk about how the Wolves struggle to shoot like it's something out of his hands.
 

 

(if you haven't read Britt's interview over on Minnpost, go read it now)
 

Because we really never had a big inside presence, either a four [power forward] or five

, where you could throw them the ball and they could create. So we don't shoot the ball very well now because a lot of our shots are contested shots.

 

Is the problem that Pekovic and Ricky have been hurt? Or is the problem that all five Wolves often find themselves so close together they effectively guard each other of the other team. In the example above, Flip has Bazz cutting down the middle of the floor between two of his own teammates, which outs four white jerseys all inside the lane. The structure of the offense does the defense's work for it; just by being near their assignment, they for Stan Van Gundy's @*#%ing wall.

 

Saunders has a vexing habit of making intentional decisions and then somehow thinking the team is a victim of circumstances it can't control. "I let the defense crowd us but who knows why our shots are contested." "I signed a center to take the last roster spot but who knows why we don't have a roster spot to grab Nate Wolters." Etc, etc.

 

It's not exactly encouraging stuff, especially since Flip is both the "what am I looking for?", and "how do the pieces fit together?" guy. We'll see if things change when Rubio and Martin return. But it's difficult to look at this team and have confidence they know what they're doing right now.

 

The Hawks are a team that knows what it's doing now. They grabbed a roster of great players without breaking the bank and found a tough, flexible, maximum success coach to guide them. They've proven the Spurs system isn't just random mythology; there's a structure there that can be duplicated. If you have the right personnel to make the machine work.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Dolfan23
Cleaned up formatting

[Gray Mule]

Excellent.  Good to know that there is someone who "gets it."

 

Most everyone here knows that, right now, our Hawks live at

the corner of Easy Street and Got it Made Avanue.

 

GO TEAM ATL !!

[LucastheThird]

Great read. It's almost funny how the bad teams (and fans of bad teams) realize how good new teams are, but the supposed 'contenders' and talking heads on major networks always take a while longer.

[JETSET]

This guy needs to replace C-Viv today!

[Guest]

This guy needs to replace C-Viv today!

My 6 year old could replace C-Viv and it'll be an upgrade.

[Sothron]

Minnesota really has a great fanbase and some great writers and pundits that follow the team. I know I'm the only fan of the TWolves on here but I think an article like this is indicative of the quality.

[Guest]

Minnesota really has a great fanbase and some great writers and pundits that follow the team. I know I'm the only fan of the TWolves on here but I think an article like this is indicative of the quality.

Well the Hawks need an upgrade at beatwriter to match their success. Lol. Edited January 26, 2015 by JayBirdHawk

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWGjoqFkLPk

[benhillboy]

Damn, when I got to the line comparing our guys to Lilliard, Gasol, Blake, and Klay, I had to stop. Too much original thought. If an ESPN writer turned that article in to his editor, it would be trashed and him fired. I'll peep the rest when I have time, preciate it Soth.

It's a great feeling to know there are true basktball fans with a voice and operating brain cells becoming fans of this squad. You would think after seeing the Bulls stink it up yet again versus a sub .500 team the pundits would be off the bandwagon but no. When they're eliminated earlier than all the "experts" thought they'll just look for a scapegoat becuase they couldn't have been wrong, right? "But on paper they were so big up front and they have a former MVP, right? Why aren't they winning, God!!!!"

Edited January 26, 2015 by benhillboy

[capstone21]

Great read

[macdaddy]

Jeff Teague has to be the best value in the NBA that isn't on a rookie contract.   But this is also the scary part.  It's hard to find 4 guys as good as Teague/Korver/Millsap/Horford and have them all on bargain contracts.   

[benhillboy]

Jeff Teague has to be the best value in the NBA that isn't on a rookie contract. But this is also the scary part. It's hard to find 4 guys as good as Teague/Korver/Millsap/Horford and have them all on bargain contracts.

It's very easy for me to say but I think part of the Spurs culture is to shun "richness". Bud tries to enrich guys' lives as much as possible off the court so they realize life isn't about spending on luxuries and hangers-on or being a mogul. I think they really impress upon the guys that even if you make the league minimum, you're still in the Top 1% of earners worldwide just for playing a freaking game. It gives them perspective and humility instead of trusting some slimy agent to squeeze every penny out of an owner for a contract you may not even be worthy of at the end of it all.

Tim doesn't seem to care that his career contemporary in KG has made well over $90 million more. With the entourage KG has with no education, don't be surprised in 10 years if he's a sad riches to rags story while Timmy has car dealerships and paintball galleries all over Texas in addition to having whatever executive or administrative position he pleases with the Spurs. Succeeding in a team game is something Spurs/Hawks guys value over buying Rolls Royces and buying out strip clubs just because they got their numbers up in a contract year.

All of these guys besides Kyle will get exactly what they deserve when the time comes after they prove what they're in the process of proving and be totally content being a part of this program. I mean the rest of the NBA isn't looking too attractive to the situation they're in right now is it? Can you imagine all the "ladies" throwing themselves at Al, Thabo, and Kyle right now? (@jaybird, I assume these are the most handsome Hawks, right?)

Edited January 26, 2015 by benhillboy

[klesko12]

Minnesota really has a great fanbase and some great writers and pundits that follow the team. I know I'm the only fan of the TWolves on here but I think an article like this is indicative of the quality.

I've been following zach harper @talkhoops for years, guy is usually on point.

[Admin]

My 6 year old could replace C-Viv and it'll be an upgrade.

 

Why doesn't your 6 yr old have an account on Hawksquawk then... oh wait @Spud2Nique does have an account :)

[Guest]

Why doesn't your 6 yr old have an account on Hawksquawk then... oh wait @Spud2Nique does have an account :)

Haha what'd I do? I only act like a 6 year old when I'm ...

1. Drunk

2. Tired

3. Annoyed

4. After a large meal

5. When boobies are mentioned

The other 3% of the time I'm mature.

[MCVicious]

 

 

"But if you do know what you're looking for, then you'd see Paul Millsap has been playing at the level he is this season basically since 2008. Atlanta saw that, and because they did and no one else didn't, they were able to sign him without competition for half the market price."

 

This reminds me of an amazing quote:

 

 "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see."

                                                                      - Arthur Schopenhauer

 

Ferry hit that target no one else could see. 

Edited January 27, 2015 by MCVicious

[hazer]

My thoughts exactly, way over some "experts'" heads...

[Atlantaholic]

This reminds me of an amazing quote:

 

 "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see."

                                                                      - Arthur Schopenhauer

 

Ferry hit that target no one else could see. 

 

 

Everyone criticized Ferry because he wasn't following any of the supposed tried and true "models" of team building. Instead the dude focused on making the best and smartest decision's possible. I always agreed with his approach and I'm happy it has worked out better than anyone could have anticipated. A dream come true for us Hawk's fans.

[macdaddy]

Everyone criticized Ferry because he wasn't following any of the supposed tried and true "models" of team building. Instead the dude focused on making the best and smartest decision's possible. I always agreed with his approach and I'm happy it has worked out better than anyone could have anticipated. A dream come true for us Hawk's fans.

 

There were many, not just a few, who said we should have signed Al Jefferson instead of Sap, Should have traded Al,  shouldn't have matched for Teague, overpaid for Korver.     But let's face it, I'm not sure anyone envisioned this working so well.

[Guest]

There were many, not just a few, who said we should have signed Al Jefferson instead of Sap, Should have traded Al, shouldn't have matched for Teague, overpaid for Korver. But let's face it, I'm not sure anyone envisioned this working so well.

Agreed I thought they'd have a good team because if pros like Sap, Al and Korver, but this has exceeded my expectations ...and I'm lovin it.