Hawks Still Believe Star-Less Approach Will Win...Soon

[devilwentdown2GA]

Unless the Hawks get a superstar they aren't gonna do anything

Define "aren't doing anything." We made the ECF. Every EC team other than the Cavs would gladly trade places with us.

And I'd love a superstar player. But there aren't any lining up for us right now so we have to use another philosophy. I think the one that we are using has done us pretty damn well.

[Bonkers]

Define "aren't doing anything." We made the ECF. Every EC team other than the Cavs would gladly trade places with us.

And I'd love a superstar player. But there aren't any lining up for us right now so we have to use another philosophy. I think the one that we are using has done us pretty damn well.

If the goal is just to make the ECF then yea the star-less approach can work but to make it to and win the finals it's not going to happen wth the star-less approach

Edited May 27, 2015 by Bonkers

[Guard]

For a starless approach to work, your entire starting five has to play great against elite teams for 7 games. The bench has to be good as well. I have a hard time believing this organization can pull that off. It's incredibly hard to do.

[NBASupes]

The problem isn't us lacking a superstar. We lack too many stars. Korver is not a star. We need a better SG than him but one in his mold. We need a better SF than DMC but no one is available so just develop someone who has the potential. We need balance in the in the paint. Monroe, Lopez, etc. We need a center. 

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

The problem isn't us lacking a superstar. We lack too many stars. Korver is not a star. We need a better SG than him but one in his mold. We need a better SF than DMC but no one is available so just develop someone who has the potential. We need balance in the in the paint. Monroe, Lopez, etc. We need a center.

Which is possible this offseason. I'd be happy with signing Matthews or Afflalo and then Lopez or Jefferson. Afflalo shoots well and plays D. Matthews is dealing with an ACL, but is a lights out shooter and fits our scheme. Lopez fits space and pace, Jefferson gives much needed interior presence. So many options and we will have a good amount of cap to retool with.

[Dejay]

I've been saying exactly this for years... The Hawks have stars and they have the talent...hell we won 60 damn games. What we need is tweaking and we need to not be afraid to make tough decisions in order to improve the team. THAT is what will kill us.

I didn't believe in building a team this way, but this team has made a believer out of me. It can be done without blowing it up and without dipping into the lottery.

That makes two of us. I was about as hardlined as anyone on this board when it came to us needing superstar power to get past the second round; and have the posts to prove it. I was wrong.

This team won 60 effin games and beat everyone except the Spurs. For weeks on end, opponents saw this team win, told themselves that it wouldn't happen to them, then had the same hopeless looks on their faces at the end of their game like all the rest. The team began unraveling when the NYPD went Barney Fife on Thabo, along with the Road Warrior-esque shoulder block Ed Davis put on Millsap. Yet they still managed to find a way into the ECFs, which is further than any Hawk team I have seen in my lifetime.

While moves are needed, a full-blown rebuild isn't necessary. Not this time...

[ATLHawks3]

Which is possible this offseason. I'd be happy with signing Matthews or Afflalo and then Lopez or Jefferson. Afflalo shoots well and plays D. Matthews is dealing with an ACL, but is a lights out shooter and fits our scheme. Lopez fits space and pace, Jefferson gives much needed interior presence. So many options and we will have a good amount of cap to retool with.

Matthews won't be ready for the season opener. He could ironically be cheaper than DeMarre, with all the hype DeMarre's been getting, even though Matthews is the better player. The Hawks really don't have to break the bank in order to find a quality center. A guy like Robin Lopez would help us tremendously, and he is worth a reasonable 6-8 million a year.

[nonono]

Matthews won't be ready for the season opener. He could ironically be cheaper than DeMarre, with all the hype DeMarre's been getting, even though Matthews is the better player. The Hawks really don't have to break the bank in order to find a quality center. A guy like Robin Lopez would help us tremendously, and he is worth a reasonable 6-8 million a year.

 

I like the way you think

[Diesel]

Under normal circumstances making the ECF would be great and an awesome building block. But when you get absolutely destroyed, obviously changes need to be made.

 

No... I don't think that's the case.  OKC made changes after being destroyed in the finals.   How well has that worked out for them.

 

Let's get past the ugly loss and recognize that we came in half a team and that we need to make a few tweeks.  However, everybody calling for this team to be blown up has lost their mind.

[Guard]

No... I don't think that's the case.  OKC made changes after being destroyed in the finals.   How well has that worked out for them.

OKC isn't a good example because they have two MPV candidates on their team and they're young. As long as they have Durant and Westbrook, their window stays wide the heck opened. With their talent, it's not a stretch to say they can make it back to Finals. Especially if Donovon is an improvement.

[Wretch]

The problem isn't us lacking a superstar. We lack too many stars. Korver is not a star. We need a better SG than him but one in his mold. We need a better SF than DMC but no one is available so just develop someone who has the potential. We need balance in the in the paint. Monroe, Lopez, etc. We need a center. 

 

Agreed 99%.  The team that we assembled beat a lot of good teams.  People can downplay the regular season all they want, but it was no fluke how we were winning. We made it to the ECF's and despite going 0-4, we had a shot at winning each of those first 3 games.  

 

Which I have to say this...we would have needed perfect games, because the only thing the NBA couldn't affect was the ball going in the basket.  I'm going to leave that right there and come back to it later, but yeah...

 

Anywho...  We need a wing who can work off the dribble and score midrange and we need a post presence.  I like Korver, but I've felt all year that we lean too hard on him.  He should be a spark coming off the bench.  I think DMC is a keeper and I don't mind him starting, but we need a 2/3 that can put out some offense.  What all that really means is that we need to make a solid decision about our 4/5.

 

I also think we roll with Dennis or Teague, not both.  It's great to have two capable guys at PG...but it's a duplication of talent. It's all good while Dennis grows and improves, but at some point we're going to have to make a decision.

[Bonkers]

Agreed 99%.  The team that we assembled beat a lot of good teams.  People can downplay the regular season all they want, but it was no fluke how we were winning. We made it to the ECF's and despite going 0-4, we had a shot at winning each of those first 3 games.  

 

Which I have to say this...we would have needed perfect games, because the only thing the NBA couldn't affect was the ball going in the basket.  I'm going to leave that right there and come back to it later, but yeah...

 

Anywho...  We need a wing who can work off the dribble and score midrange and we need a post presence.  I like Korver, but I've felt all year that we lean too hard on him.  He should be a spark coming off the bench.  I think DMC is a keeper and I don't mind him starting, but we need a 2/3 that can put out some offense.  What all that really means is that we need to make a solid decision about our 4/5.

 

I also think we roll with Dennis or Teague, not both.  It's great to have two capable guys at PG...but it's a duplication of talent. It's all good while Dennis grows and improves, but at some point we're going to have to make a decision.

Lmao

[Vol4ever]

Millsap was a main cog during the season.  He has to be resigned. 

[Wretch]

One other damn thing I gotta say...

 

I was one of the biggest non-believers, if not THE biggest non-believer on the board.  I was hating on this team with 30 years worth of Hawks/NBA history to back me up, not just random "lolz ur dum, Hawks sux" posts.  I ****HATED***** Danny Ferry's approach and I wanted to draft in the lottery.  It says quite a bit that I have done a complete 180.  

 

I'm not stupid and I know we need to upgrade, but...crazy as it is for me to say it, the Hawks are onto something special and they need to follow through with it.  I can understand the disappointment, and for the love of God YES we need changes/upgrades...but to continue blindly hating on this team right now shows a severe lack of understanding of the game of basketball.

 

That ain't really what I want to say though.  What's silly to me is that I just don't get the sour grapes right now.  Seriously.  We all sat here at the beginning of the season and predicted an ECF's matchup between Chicago and Cleveland.  Most of us had the Cavs coming out of the East...but like, why is this so shocking and upsetting now?  Many of us "haters" agreed that a star/superstar will carry a team to the Finals...and the Cavs have this dude:

 

 

Yeah he's a drama queen.  Yeah he's an arrogant asshat.  Yeah the NBA might "help him out" here and there...but this dude IS a future hall of famer and he makes. things. happen.  I feel bad that we didn't play our best basketball, but I'm not ashamed of losing to the Cavs.

 

Come on man...the jaded ex-girlfriend act is just shallow and PATHETIC. What are you guys, like 12 years old?  I could understand if we got swept in the 1st or 2nd round...or otherwise just lost.  But we made franchise history.  We made the damn ECF's.  A lot of teams get here and get beaten.  Many of them come back and get over the hump.  We just gotta get better and tighten up.

 

Man...  The salty ignorance and inconsistency is just insufferable.

 

Ok endrant.

(PS - we need Danny Ferry back)

Edited May 27, 2015 by Wretch

[Dejay]

Have to cosign with Wretch here. And for my duration on this board, I was right there with him, Ex, AHF, and others when it came to the 'need of getting a superstar here' mantra. Them winning 60 games and doing what no one and I mean this, NO ONE saw coming a year ago gives me more reason than ever to look forward to this summer than to think of what could've been. Besides, this isn't the NFL where teams can quickly fall apart after failing to cash in their chips (don't we Falcon fans know). The East has a big obstacle in front (just ran into it last week) but the rest of the lot? The Bulls? The Whiz? Beaten them both when the team was bad. The Drakes in Tor....not counting them anymore after getting slapped around by D.C in the first round. Get healthy, make the right moves this offseason, and we'll be back in the ECFs a year from now...

[thescout5]

Agreed 99%.  The team that we assembled beat a lot of good teams.  People can downplay the regular season all they want, but it was no fluke how we were winning. We made it to the ECF's and despite going 0-4, we had a shot at winning each of those first 3 games.  

 

Which I have to say this...we would have needed perfect games, because the only thing the NBA couldn't affect was the ball going in the basket.  I'm going to leave that right there and come back to it later, but yeah...

 

Anywho...  We need a wing who can work off the dribble and score midrange and we need a post presence.  I like Korver, but I've felt all year that we lean too hard on him.  He should be a spark coming off the bench.  I think DMC is a keeper and I don't mind him starting, but we need a 2/3 that can put out some offense.  What all that really means is that we need to make a solid decision about our 4/5.

 

I also think we roll with Dennis or Teague, not both.  It's great to have two capable guys at PG...but it's a duplication of talent. It's all good while Dennis grows and improves, but at some point we're going to have to make a decision.

 

 

I agree with alot your saying. If you look at all the issues of the Hawks vs the Cavs (bad ref calls,injuries,rebounding) the shots were there but the Hawks couldn't knock them down.Was it because of injuries or plain bad shooting? The Cavs did have good defense so they took alot of what Atlanta likes to do and didn't give it to them. It caused the Hawks alot of times to become a half court team and exposed a big weakness bad jump shooters.You have to have plan B if plan A doesn't work and the Hawks didn't have that.It makes perfect sense if the players you have aren't getting the jb done to find other players. The Hawks depserately need at least one player player to be able to get his own shot off in a half court game. The Cavs size it appeared to bother Milsap in the paint. Thompson killed Atlanta on the boards. If the Hawks bring back the same group how are the Hawks going to get better at rebounding,shooting, defense. The Cavs exposed alot of problems with the Hawks. Now its time to get some players who will get the Hawks over the hurdle.

 

Most of us agree Hawks need more size in the paint. A better shooting guard to get his shot off. Korver should be on the bench and provide a spark when he comes in. I could live with Sap coming back but the Hawks need to add a big to give them some flexibility against teams like Cleveland where they pound you on the boards. Adding a Robin Lopez,Brooke Lopez would be nice but if the Hawks could add Gasol that would be ideal. It would mean more low post scoring and probably less of the passing game as we see it. It would solve rebounding issues,in the paint defense, and better shot selection.

 

Should be an interesting off season since we clearly see what problems the Hawks need to fix to get better.

[Guard]

The East has a big obstacle in front (just ran into it last week) but the rest of the lot? The Bulls? The Whiz? Beaten them both when the team was bad. The Drakes in Tor....not counting them anymore after getting slapped around by D.C in the first round. Get healthy, make the right moves this offseason, and we'll be back in the ECFs a year from now...

It's not smart to assume the East is going to be this weak going forward. The East was really weak this year.  Weaker than normal. Brooklyn being in the playoffs was a testament to that. 

[Dejay]

Of course it isn't. But the Hawks were under .500 a year ago and took the Pacers to seven games. They were also under .500 in 2008 when they took the Celtics to seven games. So why don't we take a look...

 

East Champs:

Cavs (no doubt about it, the team to beat)

 

Top Contenders (i.e. no one would be surprised to see them in the ECFs next season):

Hawks (60 wins + ECFs = title contender)

Bulls (may lose Thibs but still have Rose, Noah, and Butler; for now)

Whiz (devastating backcourt; the frontcourt on the other hand...)

Raptors (scratch that, we ALL would be surprised to see them in the ECFs next season)

 

Playoff teams who needs more seasoning than the three listed above (and talent):

Raptors (bloated record because of playing in the Sunbelt conference of the NBA)

Bucks (can defend like no one's business but trading Brandon Knight was just plain stupid)

 

Fringe playoff teams:

Celtics (like Brad Stevens, still hate Tommy Heinsohn)

Pacers (having Paul George counts for something)

Pistons (drop one level if/when Greg Monroe leaves town)

Heat (might speed up the process in free agency)

 

Look out below:

Knicks (see Heat, Miami)

Horbobnetcats (Lord help them if Al Jefferson and Gerald Henderson leaves town; hmmm...)

Magic (intriguing pieces, might still be a year away)

Sixers (like Clarence Carter, they be tankin'...)

Nets (just after paying off the JJ trade, the Pierce and KG bills come due)

 

Any objections?

Edited May 27, 2015 by Dejay

[AHF]

Have to cosign with Wretch here. And for my duration on this board, I was right there with him, Ex, AHF, and others when it came to the 'need of getting a superstar here' mantra. Them winning 60 games and doing what no one and I mean this, NO ONE saw coming a year ago gives me more reason than ever to look forward to this summer than to think of what could've been. Besides, this isn't the NFL where teams can quickly fall apart after failing to cash in their chips (don't we Falcon fans know). The East has a big obstacle in front (just ran into it last week) but the rest of the lot? The Bulls? The Whiz? Beaten them both when the team was bad. The Drakes in Tor....not counting them anymore after getting slapped around by D.C in the first round. Get healthy, make the right moves this offseason, and we'll be back in the ECFs a year from now...

 

Even I am very supportive of continuing to mold this current team and seeing how far we can go.  The series versus Lebron might be seen as some as a case study in why you need a superstar but with the amount of injuries on both teams it is hard to get a true read (Irving, Love, Varajao, Sap, DMC, Korver, Thabo, etc.).  It is hard to pick one out but this team's defense fell off dramatically after losing Thabo so I might have to go with that.  This team was top of the NBA elite and just destroyed everyone for more than a month which I haven't seen from any Hawks team I can remember.  I want to see if we can recapture that spark.

 

My dream is that we strike gold at #15 this year and get our Kawhi Leonard.  Make it happen Bud / Ferry / Possible Ferry Replacement.

[Dejay]

Losing Thabo in that manner was more devastating than I could've imagined because his defense and rebounding was sorely missed in the postseason. At that point, they were looking as if they were catching a second wind when he returned to full strength. I have a feeling that Paul Pierce and Bradley Beal wouldn't have had those open looks in the second round with him and DMC on the court. 

 

Shortly before that incident, Earl Clark gave one of those Road Warrior Hawk shoulder blocks to Millsap and he was never quite the same. Then the NYPD came calling. Then came Al's injury, then Teague twisting his ankle every other game, DMC's turf toe, Korver getting chop-blocked, and you're staring at 118-88 in Game 4 of the ECFs. Can't unchange it though; Cleveland lost players too, won going away, and deserved the title. But it still doesn't stop one from thinking of how much better the series could've been.

 

I think the sense of urgency is here though. Despite the sweep, tickets for next season are being sold at a clip that hasn't been seen here since the '88-89 season (the last time you had to 'know somebody' in order to get seats) when they brought in Theus and Moses. They know that they're under the spotlight to make moves to get them back in the ECFs. Simply making the playoffs with a 44-38 record will not do barring massive injuries next season...