FA List

[Bamalawdawg]

With the numbers we are talking about here, I'd rather see DMC go. He's the 5th best starter and has limited upside. Let another team make him their 2nd highest paid player and lament about his contract in 2 years when he's averaging his solid but uninspiring 13 points 7 rebounds.

We can then spend $10 mil or so plus an exception on 3 good players to work into the rotation, instead of just DMC.

[MaceCase]

Jonas Jerebko. Watch him play if you don't believe me. He can do everything Carroll can offensively for a fraction of the price. Solid defensively too, pure hustle.

Besides the fact he's a stretch 4 and not a wing? Watched him plenty in Detroit, doubt he evolved his game in just barely half a season in Boston especially considering that they themselves continued to use him as a 4.

[Guest]

Atlanta fans get a little tunnel visioned when their teams experiences a little success. And no...DMC is not essential to Atlanta's success. There are plenty of players that can match or exceed his production on the open market today for the same price or in many cases much less. Plus DMC isn't the only player in the league that can improve under the right coaching. Has he become more than a $2.5 Mil per year player? Absolutely! But has he risen beyond the like of other productive glue guy wings in this league. Absolutely not. We should not be tunnel visioned when evaluating the available wings this off season

@Peoriabird

You have not addressed how much you think Afflalo will get having opted out of his $7.7 million, and how much you think Young will get. I would prefer to pay DMC $10 mil KNOWING what we will get from him as opposed to paying Afflalo $9 mil HOPING that we will get similar production.

Afflao will be 30 when the season starts DMC will be 29.

[NBASupes]

Wes Matthews wants 15m per. We need to face the facts. The average role player will be 10m plus from here on out. 

[Guest]

Wes Matthews wants 15m per. We need to face the facts. The average role player will be 10m plus from here on out.

Exactly, I see reports of Shumpert getting $8m.

[Guest]

Wes Matthews wants 15m per. We need to face the facts. The average role player will be 10m plus from here on out. 

 

Yeah, this 'DMC better sign for less than $8mil' talk is just under-informed thinking.

[Diesel]

Still too rich for my taste.

 

You obviously don't like or respect what DMC brings to the plate.

[Diesel]

The problem with the above logic is that it isn't the going rate.  DMC is not 2 1/2 times move valuable to the team than Thabo and certainly isn't move valuable than Jeff Teague.  He might not be as good a player as a drafted wing play in this years draft Kelly Oubre so my question is...Why over pay him when he isn't an essential part of the team's success?  There are any number of guys we can pick up to match DMC's value to the team i.e. Arron Afflalo for almost half this asking price.  Same goes for Millsap! In fact, there are several opportunities to upgrade the position or get young for 1/3 less.  Why take the chance on Millsap who is over 30 giving you less production going forward for twice the price like he did in the playoffs last year and this year?

 

These numbers are not static.  I do believe that DMC is more valuble than Thabo.  However, when Teague's new deal come up, we will have to pay him and Horf accordingly.   Secondly, I disagree about him being an essential part of our success. He makes life better for us and he shows leadership. 

 

I was watching Open Court.  Chris Webber was talking about them trading away Doug Christie from that SacTown team.  He said that when they did that, he knew that they would never be in championship contention.  Mainly because even though Doug wasn't a stat sheet filler, he was their 3 and D guy and he was a hard worker in practice and got them motivated.   The hidden Chemistry.  I think that DMC is a guy who gives us a lot of good on the court and also some hidden chemistry elements as well.

 

I still stand with Paul receiving 16.6 EB Max and DMC getting ~ 9.0 - 10.

[Peoriabird]

I still stand with Paul receiving 16.6 EB Max and DMC getting ~ 9.0 - 10.

Once we do those deals, the team will start to decline going forward

You obviously don't like or respect what DMC brings to the plate.

I do but there is a set price for everybody in the NBA even Lebron

[Peoriabird]

Yeah, this 'DMC better sign for less than $8mil' talk is just under-informed thinking.

The thing you loved about Ferry is that he didn't care how much other team over paid for players...He didn't fall in love with one particular player.  He just went out there and found the best bargain out there and that is how our team became the 2013-14 Hawks

[Peoriabird]

Wes Matthews wants 15m per. We need to face the facts. The average role player will be 10m plus from here on out. 

And guess what, Ferry didn't give a screw how much Dallas over paid Chandler Parson or how much Utah over paid Gordan Hayward

[Peoriabird]

@Peoriabird

You have not addressed how much you think Afflalo will get having opted out of his $7.7 million, and how much you think Young will get. I would prefer to pay DMC $10 mil KNOWING what we will get from him as opposed to paying Afflalo $9 mil HOPING that we will get similar production.

Afflao will be 30 when the season starts DMC will be 29.

Afflalo was just one example...Plus who knows why he opted out.  You are just assuming that he opted out because of money but what if he did it for other reasons like a desire to play for a better team?  Once teams start over spending for glue guys, you end up with a middle of the road type team like Phoenix or Detroit

Edited June 23, 2015 by Peoriabird

[Diesel]

Once we do those deals, the team will start to decline going forward

 

What makes you say that?  The salary cap is about to explode!!!  At the very least, those deals will be movable (if we need to move them).  I think that you fall into the category of people who think that last season was a fluke.  The problem with that is that our success spans longer than last season.

The season prior... without Horf, we took the best team in the league to 7 games... 

The point is that our CHEMISTRY and what Bud is doing is working.  It's not just about a skillset... we can possibly replace the skillset.  It's about the mentality that these guys have.  Do you know how hard it is for people to buy into something that is different?  We have 2 guys who are essential to our success and they have already bought in.  Now, you want to watch them walk for a few pennies more?  You would give up success for perceived monetary gains... but here's the stinker... lesser players will demand more money from us than what we can pay these guys...and they won't have the same type of chemistry. It's a losers mentality that you have PBird.  The first time we produce a plan that works, you come in and want to throw away the pieces for perceived cap flexibility???  Like I have always maintained... I have never seen capspace suit up nor have I seen capspace hit an open three or d up his man...

If we throw the pieces of a successful plan away, I guess you get the lottery party that you always wanted instead of the finals party that the city needs.

[Peoriabird]

What makes you say that?  The salary cap is about to explode!!!  At the very least, those deals will be movable (if we need to move them).  I think that you fall into the category of people who think that last season was a fluke.  The problem with that is that our success spans longer than last season.

The season prior... without Horf, we took the best team in the league to 7 games... 

The point is that our CHEMISTRY and what Bud is doing is working.  It's not just about a skillset... we can possibly replace the skillset.  It's about the mentality that these guys have.  Do you know how hard it is for people to buy into something that is different?  We have 2 guys who are essential to our success and they have already bought in.  Now, you want to watch them walk for a few pennies more?  You would give up success for perceived monetary gains... but here's the stinker... lesser players will demand more money from us than what we can pay these guys...and they won't have the same type of chemistry. It's a losers mentality that you have PBird.  The first time we produce a plan that works, you come in and want to throw away the pieces for perceived cap flexibility???  Like I have always maintained... I have never seen capspace suit up nor have I seen capspace hit an open three or d up his man...

If we throw the pieces of a successful plan away, I guess you get the lottery party that you always wanted instead of the finals party that the city needs.

I don't think that last year was a fluke but I do feel like several guys had career years Like Korver, Millsap and DMC. They most likely reached their peak last year.  Paying guys more money after career year is never a good idea especially guys over 30 like Millsap.  Korver was kinda an exception to the rule but i wouldn't bank that approach as the norm.  Plus our weaknesses got severely exposed in the playoff resulting in disaster and I can't for the life figure out why what happened in the playoffs has been overlooked.

[AHF]

Afflalo was just one example...Plus who knows why he opted out.  You are just assuming that he opted out because of money but what if he did it for other reasons like a desire to play for a better team?  

 

lol

 

I am sure he was so offended by their mere 51 wins that he is jumping ship to take a discount and not to get a bigger contract at a time when wings are going to get paid.  It is nice to know there are some idealists left in the world, Peoriabird!

[Guest]

Afflalo was just one example...Plus who knows why he opted out. You are just assuming that he opted out because of money but what if he did it for other reasons like a desire to play for a better team? Once teams start over spending for glue guys, you end up with a middle of the road type team like Phoenix or Detroit

The only reason he is opting out is for a pay raise. Plain and simple.

[Diesel]

I don't think that last year was a fluke but I do feel like several guys had career years Like Korver, Millsap and DMC. They most likely reached their peak last year.  Paying guys more money after career year is never a good idea especially guys over 30 like Millsap.  Korver was kinda an exception to the rule but i wouldn't bank that approach as the norm.  Plus our weaknesses got severely exposed in the playoff resulting in disaster and I can't for the life figure out why what happened in the playoffs has been overlooked.

 

I don't think it's overlooking our weakness to resign the players that helped make us successful in the first place.  Attacking the weakness can be done in several ways but you don't throw out a winning formulation because of:

1.  You want to see them get better?

2.  You want to address our weakness.

 

Whether or not they have peaked is irrelevant in our offense.  Our offense doesn't push individual accomplishments.  You have to look at what we do as a whole and say... OK, this formula works or it doesn't.  Whatwe have found is that it does.  Now about our weakness.... we need 2 things...

1.  Healing from injuries.

2.  Tweeking the frontcourt.

 

That doesn't mean drop everybody and put us back in lottery status.

[thescout5]

I don't think it's overlooking our weakness to resign the players that helped make us successful in the first place.  Attacking the weakness can be done in several ways but you don't throw out a winning formulation because of:

1.  You want to see them get better?

2.  You want to address our weakness.

 

Whether or not they have peaked is irrelevant in our offense.  Our offense doesn't push individual accomplishments.  You have to look at what we do as a whole and say... OK, this formula works or it doesn't.  Whatwe have found is that it does.  Now about our weakness.... we need 2 things...

1.  Healing from injuries.

2.  Tweeking the frontcourt.

 

That doesn't mean drop everybody and put us back in lottery status.

So next year Diesel if the Hawks fail especially if they get blown out are you going to blame the failure on injuries again? Last year it was Horford being out this year the whole team practically next year lets say their all healthy and still don't play to potential. The problem is the Hawks may have waited to long to fix the problem. Will Sap and DMC if both ar back have any trade value. Then you have to deal with Horford getting a new contract. Maybe Horford is the problem he sure didn't show up most of the time this playoffs. When do the Hawks make big changes? I liken this team to the Atlanta Braves win in the reg season lose in the post season. Next years free agent class won't be has good as this one. Do you still wait? 

I will say if the Hawks keep the team intact and fail big in the playoffs next year either Teague or Schröder would be a good time to deal one. Teague will have one more yr and Schröder should boost his stock more but the problem is if the Hawks win alot of reg season games they'll be at the bottom of the draft board and even trading one of the 2 guards probably won't be enough to get an impact rookie that could be a star at a need position. 

[Guest]

So next year Diesel if the Hawks fail especially if they get blown out are you going to blame the failure on injuries again? Last year it was Horford being out this year the whole team practically next year lets say their all healthy and still don't play to potential. The problem is the Hawks may have waited to long to fix the problem. Will Sap and DMC if both ar back have any trade value. Then you have to deal with Horford getting a new contract. Maybe Horford is the problem he sure didn't show up most of the time this playoffs. When do the Hawks make big changes? I liken this team to the Atlanta Braves win in the reg season lose in the post season. Next years free agent class won't be has good as this one. Do you still wait?

I will say if the Hawks keep the team intact and fail big in the playoffs next year either Teague or Schröder would be a good time to deal one. Teague will have one more yr and Schröder should boost his stock more but the problem is if the Hawks win alot of reg season games they'll be at the bottom of the draft board and even trading one of the 2 guards probably won't be enough to get an impact rookie that could be a star at a need position.

If the Hawks fail next year because of injuries then yes it'll be injuries.

If they fail and not injured then that's something entirely differently, then we can look to move Paul and/or DMC.

If we can trade Joe Johnson we would be able to trade Paul or DMC, their salaries as a percentage of the new cap will be good.

[TheFuzz]

Besides the fact he's a stretch 4 and not a wing? Watched him plenty in Detroit, doubt he evolved his game in just barely half a season in Boston especially considering that they themselves continued to use him as a 4.

 

He's played the 3 throughout his career, not as much as the 4 but he's got it in him cuz he can shoot. I may be completely wrong on this, but wasn't Carroll considered a tweener before he came here? He's a combo forward, like Gallo or Kawhi. Obviously nowhere near either as a player, but he checked Lebron a lot in the playoffs and fits in our system: 3s, straight-line drives and cuts to the basket. Question is can he defend the position. I think he can.

 

Edit: The only reason I'd go after Jerebko is if we can't retain Carroll. He's a cheaper and/or better option than a lot of the unrestricted 3s available. Landry Fields? Nah. Let Jerebko, the pick, Thabo and Korver play the 3 for us.

Edited June 23, 2015 by TheFuzz