NY Post > What Knicks Think of THjr after Strong Finish (4/24/2015)

[sturt]

Tim Hardaway Jr. has been through three team presidents, two coaches and more teammates than he’d care to count in his two seasons after becoming the Knicks’ 2013 first-round draft pick.

“You get drafted and basically 80 percent of the team is gone,’’ Hardaway said. “Not many guys are left. So it’s been tough.’’

Following his sparkling rookie year after being selected 24th overall by former team president Glen Grunwald, Hardaway struggled to fit into Derek Fisher’s new program, his 3-point shot abandoning him.

But the shooting guard out of Michigan ended with a flourish, soaring in his final three games despite a bad wrist that had forced him to miss nine straight from mid-March to early April.

Hardaway’s big finish gave Knicks president Phil Jackson hope he’s a building block for the future — something he indicated in Tuesday’s State-of-Zen Address.

“Tim Hardaway has been both good and average at certain times, but he has a bright future,’’ Jackson said. “He’s a solidifying guard who can move to small forward or guard.’’

Hardaway was first-team All-Rookie last season and had the prestige of being named to the US Select team in Las Vegas last July.

The Knicks coaching staff felt Hardaway took the club’s catastrophic 2014-15 record too personally and got too down on himself. Indeed, he was miserable after many losses.

In March, Fisher, disappointed in Hardaway’s defensive aptitude and failure to drive the ball, made an ominous remark about Hardaway when asked about the future.

“Well, he is under contract for next year,’’ Fisher said.

It was hardly a ringing endorsement. Hardaway was one of former coach Mike Woodson’s favorite players, and the comment gave the appearance that Fisher didn’t share the same fondness.

But as the season closed, Hardaway’s mojo was back and he showed his mettle playing hurt with the wrist, producing big in the final three games. He singlehandedly won the April 11 game in Orlando, scoring seven points in the final 1:30, then banged in 23 points in the victory in Atlanta before ringing up another 25 in last week’s season finale against Detroit. That included a four-point play that had his father, Pistons assistant Tim Hardaway, proudly shaking his head on the bench.

It left a sweet final taste in everyone’s mouth as Hardaway’s scoring average wound up at 11.5 points despite 38.9 percent shooting.

“I think he learned a lot about himself and what is possible when he was out with the injury,’’ Fisher said. “I think he has been a different player since in terms of attacking the basket and talking on defense. Oftentimes guys don’t miss things until it is taken away from them. I think enjoying to play came back to him and he was a different player.’’

Hardaway still has trade value — perhaps he can net a late first-rounder or early second-rounder. But why, other than saving a smidgen of cap space? He stands to make $1.3 million next season, and the Knicks can exercise the rookie option on his fourth year in October at just $2.2 million for 2016-17.

Some scouts see him now as a legitimate top scorer on the second unit for a good team instead of a budding All-Star, but at least it’s a known quantity.

The Knicks already have 10 roster spots to fill as Hardaway is one of just five players with contracts for next season, including surprise rookie guard Langston Galloway. The undrafted combo guard is assuredly returning on a $200,000 guarantee. Jackson praised Galloway Tuesday as the season’s “bright spot’’ who showed his “mettle.’’

“I feel confident in myself, I feel confident in this team,’’ Hardaway said. “I’m ready to get started again.’’ It looks like Jackson and Fisher are looking forward to it, too.

 

http://nypost.com/2015/04/24/what-the-knicks-think-of-tim-hardaway-jr-after-his-strong-finish/

[Diesel]

Hardaway had to leave NY.  IF they would have lost those three games, then maybe the Knicks would have gotten a better pick.

[AHF]

He has trade value. An early second rounder or maybe a first.

"Well, he's under contract."

Nice finish. A taste so sweet they can't wait to shop him.

[sturt]

You look for guys who might be better if it were not for the conditions that they play within. All the better if they actually made All-Rookie first team (... a factoid I'd long ago forgotten).

[Buzzard]

No one flourished on that team. They were just flat out horrible. I am sure Hardaway jumped for joy when he heard he had been traded to Atlanta.

[AHF]

You look for guys who might be better if it were not for the conditions that they play within. All the better if they actually made All-Rookie first team (... a factoid I'd long ago forgotten).

 

Said the Toronto Raptors after acquiring first team All-Rookie Landry Fields after his 2nd year with the Knicks.  Now that he's out of the dysfunction with the Knicks he'll be amazing.

[MaceCase]

Since we're onto false equivalents, I find it funny that THE GREATEST DRAFT CLASS SINCE 2003!!!!! only produced 4 lotto selections on the All Rookie teams.  The first team alone featured two guys from previous draft classes and a 2nd rounder.

[AHF]

Since we're onto false equivalents, I find it funny that THE GREATEST DRAFT CLASS SINCE 2003!!!!! only produced 4 lotto selections on the All Rookie teams.  The first team alone featured two guys from previous draft classes and a 2nd rounder.

 

No doubt last year's class was a let down their rookie year.  It is zero surprise to see Mirotic on that list, though.  He came in with star potential and way more experience.  Likewise, Noel was the expected #1 overall pick the prior year before getting hurt.  Seeing him on the list is expected.  Neither of those is a negative on the other rookies.

[Randy]

Its a good sign he was miserable after losses.  Probably didn't fit in the NY culture.  Had we picked him up last season, coming off making the All Rookie team probably this deal would look better.  Plus, isn't he related to someone famous.....

[AHF]

Had we picked him up last season, coming off making the All Rookie team probably this deal would look better.  

 

Plus another year of team control and a year when we can control his development.  Yeah - this would have been much more attractive had it been done last year.  Losing that rookie contract season cuts value and then his terrible season last year make this much less appealing.  I'd be much happier if we got this done for the pick we got for Payne given the risks associated with that one.

Edited June 26, 2015 by AHF

[sturt]

Said the Toronto Raptors after acquiring first team All-Rookie Landry Fields after his 2nd year with the Knicks.  Now that he's out of the dysfunction with the Knicks he'll be amazing.

 

Just said that you look for that as a matter of conventional wisdom. It makes sense you might find some lower prices in some of the lesser-regarded shopping districts. Not saying you won't find some lemons among the bargains... certainly you will. But it's rational to think there's some undervalued assets to be had.

[AHF]

Just said that you look for that as a matter of conventional wisdom. It makes sense you might find some lower prices in some of the lesser-regarded shopping districts. Not saying you won't find some lemons among the bargains... certainly you will. But it's rational to think there's some undervalued assets to be had.

 

I know.  I'm bitter right now.  I hate guys who are inefficient and play zero defense.  I really do hope he turns it around.  I just hate that we gave up on the #15 pick for a guy who has to turn it around.

[MaceCase]

No doubt last year's class was a let down their rookie year.  It is zero surprise to see Mirotic on that list, though.  He came in with star potential and way more experience.  Likewise, Noel was the expected #1 overall pick the prior year before getting hurt.  Seeing him on the list is expected.  Neither of those is a negative on the other rookies.

It is a negative when the 16th, 27th, 46th, and an undrafted round out the group, nowhere near the 7 lotto guys that populated the 2003 All Rook team or even the 6 that Timothy had the honor of being awarded next to.

 

Point being, lets try to not belittle the accomplishment lest you want to also belittle your own scouting assesments.

[Sothron]

He has trade value. An early second rounder or maybe a first.

"Well, he's under contract."

Nice finish. A taste so sweet they can't wait to shop him.

 

I am glad to see you come to the Sith.  :p

 

In seriousness, when you strongly dislike something I am glad to see you post about it and share why you feel the way you do. I do the same.

[hazer]

Korver wasn't known for his defense before the Hawks, and now is more than adequate. And he doesn't have 23 year old legs/lungs. Look what Bud did for DMC's shooting/scoring. Pretty sure he can do moreso with an All-Rookie selection who already shoots 35% from deep and over 80% at the line. THJr will thrive in this system and Bud will once again look like a genius...

[NBAchamps2016]

Korver wasn't known for his defense before the Hawks, and now is more than adequate. And he doesn't have 23 year old legs/lungs. Look what Bud did for DMC's shooting/scoring. Pretty sure he can do moreso with an All-Rookie selection who already shoots 35% from deep and over 80% at the line. THJr will thrive in this system and Bud will once again look like a genius...

150% agree! I was excited about the trade. I've always been in love with his potential

[AHF]

Korver wasn't known for his defense before the Hawks, and now is more than adequate. And he doesn't have 23 year old legs/lungs. Look what Bud did for DMC's shooting/scoring. Pretty sure he can do moreso with an All-Rookie selection who already shoots 35% from deep and over 80% at the line. THJr will thrive in this system and Bud will once again look like a genius...

 

Korver was known to be a fundamentally solid defender ever since he played in Chicago.  He wasn't all-world by any means but that is a world apart from the bottom of the barrell metrics that THJ put up last season.  I think I read one this morning that had him at 94th of the top 100 SGs.  Korver has always put up decent DWS numbers, for example.  THJ managed to put up a 0.0 DWS over 1600 minutes.  That is impressive.  

 

In the last 5 years, there have been 565 seasons from guards who have played 1000 minutes.

 

By defensive win shares, Tim Hardaway's rookie season rates 512th out of 565.  That looks great compared to his sophmore season which ranks 552nd out of 565.

 

http://bkref.com/tiny/w1uR0

[sturt]

It IS pretty depressing watching some of these clips where he can't seem to stay in front of his guy, and at other times, backs off so far that he can't close out effectively. Seems the athleticism somehow drains out of him as he crosses the mid-court line after a made basket. I don't know how you remedy that, but it just seems like it can't be all that daunting... but if it weren't, why hasn't it already been resolved? That's why, though ever the optimist, I remain with one leg over the fence, not ready to commit.

[DrReality]

we know what kind of coach Woodson was. None of our guys got better under him.

[Gray Mule]

So far, just looking at his stats, the part I like best:  He can

make his free throws!

 

Hawks traded a draft pick, which may or may not even make it in the NBA

for a former first round pick who has NBA experience and who plays a

position the Hawks were looking to improve, plus, Bud likes him.

 

TH Jr may be a complete failure here in Atlanta but I don't think so.

I've been wrong before.  I didn't believe Cleveland could do to us what they did.

Everyone can't be right about this deal.  Too many different opinions.

 

GO ATLANTA !!

 

PS:  Braves lost tonight but the Dream won!!