Two maxed Point Guards

[JTB]

In my humble opinion I believe that the decision going forward is to retain Teague and Dennis at all cost. Similar to how Cleveland maxed out two power forwards I truly believe bud will do anything and all things possible to keep his two starting caliber pg's.

As long as both are healthy one of the two will perform at an all star level nearly every game seems like. We are truly probably the only team that can put star level quality on the court for a full game against all  the other 29 teams in the NBA just because we have these two.

When they play to their potential man are they a dangerous tandem! I can see why Wilcox wasn't seriously interested in trading Teague or Dennis at the deadline. Having quality pg play at starter and at bench is a great value.

All in all I'm expecting both to be retained is all I'm saying. It really works out well for buds offense, it's starting not to matter who he puts out on the court between these two...they are really finishing this year out strong.

[NBASupes]

I rather them walk then get less than excellent value. Jeff is not really a threat to walk anyway for most teams and Dennis is a RFA. I am fine with keeping both. 

[Guest]

I love our squad...and this is me talking not a direct quote from Bud...lol

[Guest]

8 hours ago, JTB said:

In my humble opinion I believe that the decision going forward is to retain Teague and Dennis at all cost. Similar to how Cleveland maxed out two power forwards I truly believe bud will do anything and all things possible to keep his two starting caliber pg's.

As long as both are healthy one of the two will perform at an all star level nearly every game seems like. We are truly probably the only team that can put star level quality on the court for a full game against all  the other 29 teams in the NBA just because we have these two.

When they play to their potential man are they a dangerous tandem! I can see why Wilcox wasn't seriously interested in trading Teague or Dennis at the deadline. Having quality pg play at starter and at bench is a great value.

All in all I'm expecting both to be retained is all I'm saying. It really works out well for buds offense, it's starting not to matter who he puts out on the court between these two...they are really finishing this year out strong.

I talked about doing this exact thing here in this thread if we can't get what WE NEED in a trade for Teague and not just what we can get: 

 

There has to be a payoff for moving either where we can get better immediately or in the near future.

[ATLSmith]

I've always had the impression that Teague doesn't want to be moved and would be willing to work out a deal to stay in Atlanta.  He seemed to be put out that Demarre decided to go to the Raptors for the more money.  I don't really have any solid evidence to support this, just reading between the lines.

But yea, if the Hawks can somehow keep both Dennis and Teague, that would be huge.

[HawksBalla]

Teague is going to be looking for a raise, period. His next contract will probably be the biggest of his career. We could pay him, sure, and also pay Dennis. But is that the best use of resources? There are going to be nights like the Golden State or Milwaukee games where Dennis plays more then Teague, or games like Utah where Teague plays more than Dennis.  And we don't think we can really play them at the same time, so that breaks the comparison to Cleveland. Personally I rather upgrade our starting small forward or shooting guard position.

 

Now if you think Baze is the future at shooting guard and has room to grow, and THJ is the future at small forward and can become a legit starter, then MAYBE you could talk me into it. But I am not convinced that both of those things will happen.

[capstone21]

One of them will eventually have to go ... Dennis will not be satisfied as the backup for much longer ...  a trade will happen at some point 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, capstone21 said:

One of them will eventually have to go ... Dennis will not be satisfied as the backup for much longer ...  a trade will happen at some point 

If Golden State can try to change the game by having their backcourt shoot like 20 3's a night then why can't we try and change the game by having 2 slashing point guards start and kick it out to shooting big men? Just play inside out or opposite I guess.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, HawksBalla said:

Teague is going to be looking for a raise, period. His next contract will probably be the biggest of his career. We could pay him, sure, and also pay Dennis. But is that the best use of resources? There are going to be nights like the Golden State or Milwaukee games where Dennis plays more then Teague, or games like Utah where Teague plays more than Dennis.  And we don't think we can really play them at the same time, so that breaks the comparison to Cleveland. Personally I rather upgrade our starting small forward or shooting guard position.

 

Now if you think Baze is the future at shooting guard and has room to grow, and THJ is the future at small forward and can become a legit starter, then MAYBE you could talk me into it. But I am not convinced that both of those things will happen.

Teague's max in 2017 will be 30% of the cap,  Dennis' would be 25%. (not saying they will get that or deserve that).

 It may not be an ideal situation to resign both initially but if we can't upgrade the SF position via a trade of Teague  then you keep him.  Trading him just to trade him makes no sense.  You have to fill a NEED.

We can always look to move either at a later date.  Teague will be 29 when he signs his next deal, so he will be looking for a payday and rightfully so.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

4 hours ago, ATLSmith said:

I've always had the impression that Teague doesn't want to be moved and would be willing to work out a deal to stay in Atlanta.  He seemed to be put out that Demarre decided to go to the Raptors for the more money.  I don't really have any solid evidence to support this, just reading between the lines.

But yea, if the Hawks can somehow keep both Dennis and Teague, that would be huge.

Unless they can play alongside each other as starters, there's no way you can max both guys.    And playing them together has been an absolute disaster this season.  Bud hasn't done it in a long while.

We essentially need Jeff and Dennis to become a poor man's version of Isiah Thomas and Joe Dumars, if we want to keep both of them.  At the very least, they have to be what Goran Dragic and Eric Bledsoe were in Phoenix.  Or what Isaiah Thomas and Avery Bradley are in Boston.

Dennis and Teague will be in HIGH demand starting this summer.  Dennis is not going to be content with playing 20 min/gm for too much longer.  He's going to want a much larger role.  So the only way this happens, is if either he or Teague is able to guard taller and stronger 2s .. or if Bud is able to "hide" one of them on defense, like how Woody used to do Bibby.  If this is the plan, Teague may need to add 10 lbs

As for Teague not wanting to be moved, he pretty much said just that in his post game interview last night.  He basically said that he loved Atlanta and playing for the Hawks. And loved his teammates and coaches.  It was almost like he was campaigning to stay here.

With Dennis playing at a high level these days, it may have motivated Teague to step his game up.

Edited March 9, 2016 by TheNorthCydeRises

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Unless they can play alongside each other as starters, there's no way you can max both guys.    And playing them together has bern an absolute disaster this season.  Bud hasn't done it in a long while.

We essentially need Jeff and Dennis to become a poor man's version of Isiah Thomas and Joe Dumars, if we want to keep both of them.  At the very least, they have to be what Goran Dragic and Eric Bledsoe were in Phoenix.  Or what Isaiah Thomas and Avery Bradley are in Boston.

Dennis and Teague will be in HIGH demand starting this summer.  Dennis is not going to be content with playing 20 min/gm for too much longer.  He's going to want a much larger role.  So the only way this happens, is if either he or Teague is able to guard taller and stronger 2s .. or if Bud is able to "hide" one of them on defense, like how Woody used to do Bibby.  If this is the plan, Teague may need to add 10 lbs

As for Teague not wanting to be moved, he pretty much said just that in his post game interview last night.  He basically said that he loved Atlanta and playing for the Hawks. And loved his teammates and coaches.  It was almost like he was campaigning to stay here.

With Dennis playing at a high level these days, it may have motivated Teague to step his game up.

Yes, I think they will be in high demand but like I've said a kajillion times (yes it's a word) I'm only cool with trading either for what we NEED, not just what we can get and especially if just about not paying them. 

We've seen it asked 'How can Cleveland have all that money to sign all those guys, well it's because they resign their own players. Now they can still move them if they wanted. Just like what they did with Love and Tristan.

 

[benhillboy]

Time does heal wounds.  Naturally there would be tension before the deadline between Bud, Jeff, and Dennis.  Jeff has seemed to put it behind and now shows good comradery with Patch and vice versa, genuinely cheering for the other's success.  

If both play consistently it'll take a miracle to keep the Hawks out the East Finals.  The speed is too deadly.

[Sothron]

We can't keep both. We need to move Teague for a wing or center and keep Dennis for the long term.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Sothron said:

We can't keep both. We need to move Teague for a wing or center and keep Dennis for the long term.

Yes, yes, yes - but we also NEED for a team to want Teague for the wing or Center we want. Taking back garbage is a no no.

[JTB]

I disagree with those who say we can't max out two point guards lol cause the fact of the matter is that we can. Dennis is a restricted free agent so we can retain Jeff with available cap space assuming the cap continues to increase by 2017 and wait for whatever team in the NBA that wants to pursue Dennis and make him an offer then the Hawks can simply match it.

The issues we COULD face is if Dennis wants a larger role as far as starting full time but thats an issue that's not necessarily set in stone more so a rumor but more than likely a true one...but if it is an issue internally among the organization, we as fans don't have all the details of course so therefore it could be an issue that can be worked out among Teague, Dennis, & Bud.

Im just making it known that as long as Teague wants to be in ATL and as long as Bud wants him here than the tandem of Teague and Dennis can easily be retained. And let me say this....Dennis may want to start but he sure as hell isnt causing a public scene about it. When Jeff was going off on the Jazz late in the game yesterday Dennis was his biggest cheer leader on the bench. I don't think this is going to become an issue between these two. They know as a tandem they put huge pressure on the opponent.

 

Now if you don't think this is smart because we aren't putting both on the court at the same time and you see no reason to max them then that's a different story but people need to stop saying we CANT keep both because that's simply not true. We own teagues full bird rights and Dennis is a free agent. If the Hawks want to keep them they CAN.

[AHF]

Just now, JTB said:

I disagree with those who say we can't max out two point guards lol cause the fact of the matter is that we can. Dennis is a restricted free agent so we can retain Jeff with available cap space assuming the cap continues to increase by 2017 and wait for whatever team in the NBA that wants to pursue Dennis and make him an offer then the Hawks can simply match it.

The issues we COULD face is if Dennis wants a larger role as far as starting full time but thats an issue that's not necessarily set in stone more so a rumor but more than likely a true one...but if it is an issue internally among the organization, we as fans don't have all the details of course so therefore it could be an issue that can be worked out among Teague, Dennis, & Bud.

Im just making it known that as long as Teague wants to be in ATL and as long as Bud wants him here than the tandem of Teague and Dennis can easily be retained. And let me say this....Dennis may want to start but he sure as hell isnt causing a public scene about it. When Jeff was going off on the Jazz late in the game yesterday Dennis was his biggest cheer leader on the bench. I don't think this is going to become an issue between these two. They know as a tandem they put huge pressure on the opponent.

 

Now if you don't think this is smart because we aren't putting both on the court at the same time and you see no reason to max them then that's a different story but people need to stop saying we CANT keep both because that's simply not true. We own teagues full bird rights and Dennis is a free agent. If the Hawks want to keep them they CAN.

I think the people saying we can't aren't saying you literally can't.  It is like if you said you wanted to sign an entire roster of point guards and they said "you can't."  They know you can they just don't think you can do that and contend.

[Sothron]

29 minutes ago, JTB said:

I disagree with those who say we can't max out two point guards lol cause the fact of the matter is that we can. Dennis is a restricted free agent so we can retain Jeff with available cap space assuming the cap continues to increase by 2017 and wait for whatever team in the NBA that wants to pursue Dennis and make him an offer then the Hawks can simply match it.

The issues we COULD face is if Dennis wants a larger role as far as starting full time but thats an issue that's not necessarily set in stone more so a rumor but more than likely a true one...but if it is an issue internally among the organization, we as fans don't have all the details of course so therefore it could be an issue that can be worked out among Teague, Dennis, & Bud.

Im just making it known that as long as Teague wants to be in ATL and as long as Bud wants him here than the tandem of Teague and Dennis can easily be retained. And let me say this....Dennis may want to start but he sure as hell isnt causing a public scene about it. When Jeff was going off on the Jazz late in the game yesterday Dennis was his biggest cheer leader on the bench. I don't think this is going to become an issue between these two. They know as a tandem they put huge pressure on the opponent.

 

Now if you don't think this is smart because we aren't putting both on the court at the same time and you see no reason to max them then that's a different story but people need to stop saying we CANT keep both because that's simply not true. We own teagues full bird rights and Dennis is a free agent. If the Hawks want to keep them they CAN.

No one is talking about the literal ability of the Hawks to keep both. It is the realistic expectation that having two starting point guards and keeping and paying for both is just not good sense.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Sothron said:

No one is talking about the literal ability of the Hawks to keep both. It is the realistic expectation that having two starting point guards and keeping and paying for both is just not good sense.

I think most people understand that but saying we need to trade Teague for a WING and a CENTER if teams aren;t willing to trade you one is also unrealistic.  Do you want to take Bucks fans deal of Monroe and MCW for Teague or the Jazz fans deals for Burks and Burke??  I sure as hell don't.  If those are the offers vs resigning both Teague and Dennis, I'll take keeping them both THEN look to move one of them  at a later date.

[rd79]

Could both be signed to an early extension after this season or only Dennis?
The extension kicks in after next season, but which years cap is used for the possible max?

If you can sign both and 2016-cap would be used instead of 2017-cap....

1. ...the team could save some money
2. ...players may (99% will) accept the lower max for security reasons
3. ...potential trade partners would be sure to keep the obtained player some years what would encourage them to make serious offers
4. ...if one is traded with kicked in extension you could trade hin for better values because of higher salary (for example next offseason it will be nearly impossible to get value - other than picks - for Dennis)

So maybe @hawksfanatic can enlighten me and tell us if Teague is eligible for an early extension and which cap would be used...

Edited March 9, 2016 by rd79

[Watchman]

It's tough.  Every time I think it's time to trade one of them, he will have an awesome game or games.  I would hate to unload Teague and have Dennis not ever become as good.  If there is a way we can keep both of them, I'd like to do so.